I approve of the war in Iraq, but only because of the goal to create a real democracy there

It is up to them to want the Democracy, not up to our "politicians"(actually it's the CFR that calls the shots)to bestow it upon them. Our founding fathers took up arms to change things. They fought for what they wanted. The Iraqi's didn't want this, not like this. More people have died since we invaded than ever died under Saddam's rule, period. What would you do if Chinese forces invaded your neighborhood and told you it was for the best. Would you fight for your family, or would you lay down in defeat? Besides, is this really a topic we want to get into on this forum?

So... we invade iraq to set up democracy.

When the regime we are overthrowing is one the US itself financed in a war against Iran...

and Iran is a country where the US sponsored a coup to remove a democractically elected government and replace it with a corrupt monarchy.

Saddam Hussein was only there because the US helped him stay there... he only had chemical weapons and the beginnings of a nuclear program because the US gave it to him.

Iran only a semi-theocracy now because the US set up a puppet regime to replace it's previous democracy.

And so on and on...

Very good reply rahal. It seems that you are in the right state of mind regarding these things.

Saddam Hussein was only there because the US helped him stay there... he only had chemical weapons and the beginnings of a nuclear program because the US gave it to him. Iran only a semi-theocracy now because the US set up a puppet regime to replace it's previous democracy. And so on and on...

OMG! We are the Korx!

Chavez is God compared to Bush, whether we like him or not. His ideas are groundbreaking in that he actually tries to help the poor. Last winter when low income people in the northeast couldn't afford to pay their heating bills, our own government had the audacity to publicly ask the oil giants to lend a hand. Only one company sent aid, Citgo, aka Venezuela. Did Chavez sieze property and goods, probably. But I think the bigger picture was to take from the uber rich and give back to the needy, something the rich and politically inspired (they are both one in the same btw) in this country care nothing about. Our country is all about how much can I get for myself while depriving everyone else of opportunity. As far as Bush, he is no leader, he is not intelligent (except maybe like a fox), and he isn't in touch with reality. Neither are any of his ex CIA goons like Rumsfeld and Cheney.

What you describe is COMMUNISM. It would (wisely) never fly in the USA. I break my ass to make money and I make a good living. So now you want to hold a gun to my head and tell me I have to give it to Cletus, a failed dirt-farmer? PLEASE.

The problem with MOST South American countries (besides RAMPANT corruption) is not the "uber-rich", but the fact they have no middle class; the backbone of ANY country. Research it and you'll see it's true. Stealing money from wealthy people does nothing to actually fix the problem, it's a band aid that backfires down the road, every time.

Let's say a guy has a great business idea and he lives in Venezuela. Why should he even try to build on this business idea? If he gets rich, the communists will just take his money....why bother? Maybe he's move to another country which is more achievement-friendly.

Also: did you know that the Gov't of Venezuela sponsors palstic surgery (think collogen and breast implants) for beauty-contestants? That seems like an awesome way to help the poor!   

Oh and Chavez "goundbreaking"? are you kidding? The idea of communism was thought up in the early 1900's, as far as I remember for politacal science classes.

The problem with MOST South American countries (besides RAMPANT corruption) is not the "uber-rich", but the fact they have no middle class;

A class which is rapidly eroding from the US, from what I hear...

The idea of communism was thought up in the early 1900's, as far as I remember for politacal science classes.

I hope you didn't pass; Das Kaptial was written in the mid-19th century...

A class which is rapidly eroding from the US, from what I hear...

Statement agreed with one hundred percent! And the reason why... the rich.

The next couple of decades are going to be interesting. As in "may you live in interesting times" interesting.

In response to Marathonis: OK, now explain WHY Chavez is a no-name politician.
(Yes, i know he's gonna shoot some smart-ass answer at me).

Why he's not, you mean?

Because he's not. If a politician is known about for various reasons, then he's not a no-name politician.

I dunno. Maybe it's because I pay attention to the world, and have more intelligence than a gnat. But I've heard of Chavez before.

Burro.

Touche'. I confess, I just posted this off the tp of my head, not really paying attencion to what i was typing. (and he shoots ANNOTHER smart-ass remark my way).

If you don't like it in the US then move. One less idiots freedom of speech I have to protect.

I have a better Idea. Move to Germany and wear a Swaztika is you like Bush, we don't and won't ever support him.

I'm sick and tired of conservatives telling people to move to Canada.

I say you move to Europe. You don't deserve your freedoms if your taking freedoms from other people for fundamentalist religions. (thats what were fighting in Iraq!.)

Yafro

If you don't like it in the US then move. One less idiots freedom of speech I have to protect.

Thank you and amen. It always gets on me when illeagle immigrants or someone whine about how terrible Americans are, heck they are criminals they should be put in prison, if anything they should be praising America for letting them stay.

So... we invade iraq to set up democracy. When the regime we are overthrowing is one the US itself financed in a war against Iran... and Iran is a country where the US sponsored a coup to remove a democractically elected government and replace it with a corrupt monarchy. Saddam Hussein was only there because the US helped him stay there... he only had chemical weapons and the beginnings of a nuclear program because the US gave it to him. Iran only a semi-theocracy now because the US set up a puppet regime to replace it's previous democracy. And so on and on...

Point 1: I never said the US invaded Iraq to set up democracy. I said that that is a result of the invasion, and a positive enough one to justify it in my eyes.

Point 2: That America is responsible for the regime in Iraq does not make the overall result of the war any less positive. They made a mess of the Middle East. Fine. Are they now not allowed to clean it up?

Point 2: That America is responsible for the regime in Iraq does not make the overall result of the war any less positive. They made a mess of the Middle East. Fine. Are they now not allowed to clean it up?

Then hurry up and clean it up. It's been three years.

Then hurry up and clean it up. It's been three years.

It's kind of hard to do that when everybody in the world screams bloody murder every time an American government official uses the words "foreign policy."

But this is both off the original topic and highly likely to end in a flame war, so let's get back on topic, and slam the Bush Administration for the many, many things they actually deserve to get slammed for.

remind you of something...prehaps maybe the "patriot act"

The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.
Benjamin Franklin

remind you of something...prehaps maybe the "patriot act" The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. Benjamin Franklin

it's nopatriotic to say such things, don'T you love your country? You want the ennemy to win?

(oh, I've heard those words so many times, they make me sick... I leave it to you to guess which one I speak about)

so let's get back on topic, and slam the Bush Administration for the many, many things they actually deserve to get slammed for.

If your wondering where the Devil, Anti-Christ, connection comes from:

Bush was in the Skull and Crossbones Society (Satan Worshipper Yale)
Prescott Bush was a Nazi (US Arhives)

Torah Bible Code predictions.

Its not like Chavez is pulling this stuff out of nowhere.

---I also wouldnt start pointing fingers at other countries regarding quality of life, US has a massive amount of poverty for such a rich country.---

maybe so but most of the people in the usa that are below the poverty line are richer than most of the people around the world

as for who the best is it is the united nations it is the only orig that covers every land in the world

I'm a libertarian, screw Republicans and Democrats both. But I'm an American first and foremost.

Chavez? Oh ya, he's that guy in south america that just bought 3 billion dollars worth of arms from Russia...that's going to make for an interesting power shift in South America. I have a feeling we're going to be hearing about this guy for some time...he's gonna be our next boogeyman.

I never said the US invaded Iraq to set up democracy.

Then why did we invade Iraq, according to what you believe? WMD's? None found. Osama? No connections. Look at the FBI's most wanted website and you will find Osama is wanted for embassy bombings, OUTSIDE of the US. He is not wanted for any crimes "committed" within the US. So just what was our reason to go into Iraq? Since you know so much about it please enlighten me.

I'm a libertarian, screw Republicans and Democrats both. But I'm an American first and foremost.

I'm a Democrat and I still support Libertarians.

Chavez? Oh ya, he's that guy in south america that just bought 3 billion dollars worth of arms from Russia...that's going to make for an interesting power shift in South America. I have a feeling we're going to be hearing about this guy for some time...he's gonna be our next boogeyman.

*Sigh* right wing propaganda and even if they did buy that many "conventional" weapons. Cuba did the exact same thing during the cold war and nothing happened.
(Plus Cuba had nukes moved over from Russia.)

AND do you really think Venezuela cold beat the Brazillian Cocaine Cartels?

OMG! We are the Korx!

HAHAHAHA that is hilaroius

Touche'. I confess, I just posted this off the tp of my head, not really paying attencion to what i was typing. (and he shoots ANNOTHER smart-ass remark my way).

While he does have a demeaning manner which doesn't help things and just makes him look bad instead of witty, his point holds; Chavez is somewhat well known if you follow world politics. Granted, most Americans don't, but he was well-known even before his election, due to his radical socialist ideas for Venezuela.