This aspect of Diplomacy / Relations broken

With concrete constructive suggestion for solution

from GalCiv2 Forums
While I have whined about the status of "ally" elsewhere, I would like to draw attention to one aspect of the current diplomacy and relations algorithmic processes which seems to me to be broken. I would like to illustrate it by means of an example.

In a recent game, Arcea (genius AI) is far ahead, since its lucky starting position gave it a dozen planets and the most resources (and, as I found out later, a Precursor bonus to research). For whichever reasons, Arcea is friendly to me, as are two other races. Arcea's military is much better than mine, and perhaps for this reason, it demands tribute of me of 650bc. I only have about 300 (but an income of about 120), but I agree to pay. Immediately, my relations go from "friendly" to "close". Since I had recently researched "Alliances", I can immediately offer Arcea an alliance, to which it readily agrees (with a trifling tuppence added by me).

This, I think, is broken -- especially considering the fact that now the most powerful nation is my ally and nothing I do can upset it. (I have tested this by willfully building military bases near his homeworld.) Of course, I turn "Diplomatic Victory" OFF, since getting alliances is already far too easy, but still: from this stage of the game on, the most powerful opponent is no longer a worry, and in fact will protect me from anyone else who tries to pick on me.

By agreeing to pay for his tribute he demanded of me for being so weak, I have invested almost nothing for the largest strategic advantage I could have gleaned in the entire game bar none. I have insurance against the Drengi (the second most powerful), I have no worries whatsoever from Arcea, and I am free to devote my entire shipping to other nations, no longer needing to please Arcea. Since we are allies, I can trade goods much more easily now as well.

Although I know that you are no longer interested in patching this game, I think this needs to be done:
1. Payment of tribute must NOT be considered into the "++ historic friendship" algorithm
2. Alliances need to be maintained; the AI MUST consider terminating alliances it no longer feels are worthwhile, that is, the AI NEEDS an algorithm by which it compares its allies actions and strengths and determines if that ally is worthy of such good relations; alliances must be able to be terminated if the ally behaves badly or gets too weak

Thank you for listening and your constructive replies
5,402 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Some might say that being able to ally yourself with a more powerful civ shows good use of diplomacy... If you can find a way to win while still not being the strongest then good for you. I agree that you should have to keep working at it to make sure that the alliance doesn't break down though. (I hope for your sake that you don't get the assasinate leader event!)

Personally, I've never had tribute demanded off me from a civ that isn't on less than Normal relations.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree that the AI should cancel alliances given the right circumstances. That's what the player does as well.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
if your getting that powerful an alliance i think that there should be a weekly tribute in order to make the alliance last while if you ally with someone who = your military strengh then its just for mutual defence also if you could ally with someone who is really weak you should be able to demand a per week payment for the military protection

just my two cents
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree, it's been my biggest gripe about this game on how once the computer allies with someone, it does everything but bend over for them.

You can even treat the AI like an abuse spouse and they still keep coming back for more. It would be nice if the AI made alliances to trick the player into a false sense of security and then broke the alliance.

Ex.
You are allied with one nation and then the strongest nation offers to ally itself with you. Then it goes to war with your ally, immediatly after winning the war it declares war on you. So the only reason it allied itself with you, was so you wouldn't go to war when he declared war on your ally.

I heard that big random events might change the system (IE intergalactic wars) and that DA is going to expand on this much more.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It seems like two changes would fix this:

1) Have alliances not affect relations. A Close relationship between races would drop to Friendly just as easily with an alliance as it would without.
2) If relations drop from Close, the AI will cancel the alliance.

There should probably be a grace period of a few turns for #2, to account for minor fluctuations and allow for the player to attempt to repair relations before the alliance falls apart.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Having the alliance broken when relations drop to friendly seems a bit harsh and hard to maintain. I like the idea, but I think that relations should drop to warm before the alliance comes apart by itself. If the AI can break alliances, (which it should), the AI might be more likely to break the alliance for other reasons at friendly; but the alliance should not be dropped automaticly at that point.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Agree, alliances are screwy. They need work.

Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Fair enough, cancelling the alliance at Warm instead of Friendly would make sense.

Either way, as Lord Nova said, the AI shouldn't stay in a relationship that's deteriorated into abuse! Those AIs need some self respect!
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think it would be wonderful to have some feedback from Stardock staff on this issue, and whether or not this may or may not be addressed -- and if how, in what form (a patch?).
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well IMHO, Diplomacy and Trade are vastly overpowered. After building up a traderoute with each faction, focusing early on diplomacy, and building all the wonders that enhance diplomacy, trade or influence, I have successuflly made myself Friendly to all the other 8 races. Up to the very end of the game, until I had all 3 weapons and all 3 defenses maxed, as well as max engines, hull and miniaturization, I had never built a single military ship. My empite was huge and very ripe for the taking, but noone wanted it. Now if this was on Normal I wouldn't complain, but it happens on Challenging and Though often. And that is why in the normal game Neutral is too powerful.