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Okay, so I've been reading what everyone wants for the expansion or even GC3, or even in an update so I'll add my two cents worth. I want to see a ship class that is a carrier vessel, able to transport a contingent of fighters anywhere in the galaxy at breakneck speed, once proper engines are researched of course. I know this really wouldn't be a necessary addition, but it would be really cool, not to mention adding some new strategies to the game. What do any of you think?
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I think it's nice to have a spacecraft carrier too. After all, it isn't as hard as adding a Z-Axis to the galaxy map.
On another note, a Z-Axis (where there are also star systems above & below you) would be a different paradigm of space strategy gaming entirely. In GalCiv3 perhaps?
On another note, a Z-Axis (where there are also star systems above & below you) would be a different paradigm of space strategy gaming entirely. In GalCiv3 perhaps?
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| So really, what is the "entirely new level of startegic and tactical nuances"? It's pretty much the same as putting a bunch of fighters in a fleet, except they have more room for weapons, obviously it unbalances the game, fighters are already practicly an exploit. |
I'd more blame this on the fact that the 'capital ships' aren't immensely larger than the fighter hulls. In games such as Master of Orion, the 'fighters' are tiny things that are comparable to capital ship missiles in size and mechanics. In Galactic Civilizations, the fighters are about the right size, but the Frigates, Cruisers, Battleships, and Dreadnoughts (all names for ships I believe I've seen the AI use to name their ship classes) are not really all that much larger than them. Comparing a Medium to a Small, it's really only a very slight increase in visual size and hull space (Only a little less than 2/3ds).
In comparison, you really would need a decent force of Bombers to take down a Battlecruiser in an efficient manner, and any lucky shots by the Battlecruiser's many heavy guns is going to be instantly lethal to any of the Bombers. With smaller ships escorting that have lighter, better-tracking weapon systems (Frigates, Corvettes, or even dedicated Interceptor fighters), it becomes even harder for the Bombers and they are quite likely to fail in their attack unless those escorts are dealt with.
Current naval weapon systems integrate what is called the Phalanx CIWS for anti-fighter and anti-missile defence. This is a Close-In Weapon System, or Point Defence gun. Without these guns, naval vessels stand little chance against fightercraft unless they have air cover.
Back on the subject of scale... In the real world, a Frigate (which would presumably be equivalent to the Medium hulls) is vastly larger than a 'heavy fighter' (say, the Su-27 Frogfoot or F-15 Eagle). Of course, this places the two types of craft in vastly different leagues.
EDIT: Actually, now considering this fact, the larger ship types really aren't large enough to be carriers. Sure, with the addition of Extras to the hull, they would, conceivably, have space for fightercraft.. But from what I can tell, they just don't have the internal capacity by default to carry any substantial amount of fighters. Especially if you consider actual Hull Space statistics. At best, a Huge could maybe fit four or five. Three with a Large. And if you look at a few of the Tiny frame types, they look like at least half their frame is taken up by the ship's cockpit, if not more.
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Why assume that fighters take up the same amount of space on their host ship as their free space? For that matter, why assume that the fighters even have to be carried? I envision a large module that extends the host ship's drive field to any Tiny ships in its fleet. This would make it more like a seaplane tender than a full carrier.
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... Or how about a support ship from the first Homeworld? Those could handle the logistics of 10 fighters and 4 corvettes far from the mothership before carriers could be fielded.
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My first post here, and I'm a "noob" to StarDocks games, but am enjoying this one. I don't know what is or isn't possible in the game, but one the whole, I wish my designs felt more Strategic than cosmetic.
I would LOVE a carrier type hull. With all the carrier type problems: Massively easy to kill, due to fighter bays weakening the hull, excess fuel, ammo storage and other problems.
The REAL problem is that its very hard to see any advantage to different hull types. I would hope that tiny craft would have an advantage near planets, as they could duck in and out of the atmesphere where a larger craft would take damage. A larger craft should be wary of aproaching a planet untill the star system is "cleared" from the outer rings in.
I guess I need to find the faq and see what I can learn about how the combat system is really working, but it "feels" a bit shallow.
I would like to have more tough choices in composing my fleets.
I would like to have 2 speeds. Clearly the bigger hulls should go through deep space faster, but be more clumsy in tactical battle.
I would like to have boarding parties.
I would like to see support ships. Otherwise, you would run out of ammo, be unable to repair and so forth.
I would like to see "Sieges" where a planet could be cut off, or have its production reduced if its not able to interact with its own empire.
I would REALLY like to set goals for a fleet: Flee if attacked, Kill weakest to hardest, Kill Troop transports first....you get the idea.
I would like morale to matter to ships, overwheming force? I surrender! Or go kamakazi....
I really do like the game, and play it alot as it is. I don't know what is moddable, or is more possibly to be in the next version. I really like the design of the game. I'm getting the expansion for sure.
I would LOVE a carrier type hull. With all the carrier type problems: Massively easy to kill, due to fighter bays weakening the hull, excess fuel, ammo storage and other problems.
The REAL problem is that its very hard to see any advantage to different hull types. I would hope that tiny craft would have an advantage near planets, as they could duck in and out of the atmesphere where a larger craft would take damage. A larger craft should be wary of aproaching a planet untill the star system is "cleared" from the outer rings in.
I guess I need to find the faq and see what I can learn about how the combat system is really working, but it "feels" a bit shallow.
I would like to have more tough choices in composing my fleets.
I would like to have 2 speeds. Clearly the bigger hulls should go through deep space faster, but be more clumsy in tactical battle.
I would like to have boarding parties.
I would like to see support ships. Otherwise, you would run out of ammo, be unable to repair and so forth.
I would like to see "Sieges" where a planet could be cut off, or have its production reduced if its not able to interact with its own empire.
I would REALLY like to set goals for a fleet: Flee if attacked, Kill weakest to hardest, Kill Troop transports first....you get the idea.
I would like morale to matter to ships, overwheming force? I surrender! Or go kamakazi....
I really do like the game, and play it alot as it is. I don't know what is moddable, or is more possibly to be in the next version. I really like the design of the game. I'm getting the expansion for sure.
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| I guess I need to find the faq and see what I can learn about how the combat system is really working, but it "feels" a bit shallow. |
It is indeed shallow - it's pretty much just matching defense values against eachother, with a little bit of probability/luck thrown in. (not unlike Civilization, really - except instead of just one type of attack and defence pair, there are three)
| I would like to have boarding parties. |
Holy $h!t, I completely forgot about this from Master of Orion 2 (not sure if 1 had it, but I know 3 utterly overlooked it) and Homeworld. Best damn thing to hijack other people's ships. Why blow it up when you can just steal it? Not always possible, but when it is, hot damn. A bunch of Small hulls with boarding modules could swarm a Huge and take it over much akin to Salvage Covettes swarming a Battlecruiser in Homeworld.
| kamakazi |
The term is 'Kamikaze', by the way. It means 'divine wind' (kami and kaze, respectively). Originates from WWII Japanese suicide runs and their belief in having divine right.
Decent suggestions overall, really, I think. Welcome to the forums.
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| I would like to have boarding parties |
Second that, or third, whatever. Gimme boarding parties, yeah!
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Ammon: all your suggestions would require code and AI rewrite. So not happening, basically.
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| Ammon: all your suggestions would require code and AI rewrite. So not happening, basically. |
I'd just like to state that I think we get it, Marc.
One would think your whole purpose in life is to tell people things can't be done.
Anyway, all these things would be nice, but at least I realize it will never happen with GalCiv2. Maybe for GalCiv3, but not for the current iteration of the game.
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| (Citizen)AmmonHoratio |
Isnt AMMON the god worshiped by the Lizzard Invadors of Earth in the series V???
Anyways....
I agree with your entire post, the problem is the Stardock ppl has said NONE of those things are coming to GalCiv2 for like 999999999999999999999999999999999 times, but ppl seem to forget, or just troll around asking the same questions, or in this instant , like you, are new to the forums. As many ppl has said be4, MAYBE GalCiv 3, just..... and the keyword here is ........ MAYBE
Welcome to the forums BTW
| Ammon: all your suggestions would require code and AI rewrite. So not happening, basically. I'd just like to state that I think we get it, Marc. One would think your whole purpose in life is to tell people things can't be done. |
OMG PaladinStorm, you hit the nail right in the head, this guy's mission on Earth, appointed by allah, or whatever other name GOD has or goes by with, is to remind the ppl on this forum that nothing new is coming to the game, and just destroy all fraking hope.
Monc34
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| I want an aircraft carrier!!!!! |
I want 12 supermodels to service my sexual desires 24/7, but that's not likely to happen either.
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I am a firm believer that you can do anything you set your mind to.
If you are negative about something hang it up.
Lastly, what in the world would you do with an Aircraft Carrier in this game?
If you are negative about something hang it up.
Lastly, what in the world would you do with an Aircraft Carrier in this game?
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By the way..... is this a thread about Carriers?
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What gave it away? Was it Marcathonas blowing a fuse, or something else?
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Give me a rifle, and the addresses of everyone who started a carrier thread.
Go on. Please.
There are SEVEN threads with carriers in the title right now. Saying "you get it" is idiotic, because CLEARLY some people don't, and they WILL meet the full wrath of ham.
I have never said nothing new is coming to the game. Just people ask the same three stupid things over and over and over: Carriers, MP and orbital bombardment.
I'll stop when the threads do.
Go on. Please.
There are SEVEN threads with carriers in the title right now. Saying "you get it" is idiotic, because CLEARLY some people don't, and they WILL meet the full wrath of ham.
I have never said nothing new is coming to the game. Just people ask the same three stupid things over and over and over: Carriers, MP and orbital bombardment.
I'll stop when the threads do.
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Well, see, some of these guys come from this little game created by this little company called Simtex, which found the time to code all those things into their little game. They just seem to expect other companies making similar games to be able to find time, as well.
Not their fault Stardock has not the inclination where other companies did.
And I'm not saying MP should be there, but I still think there should be a GalCiv game in the future with proper tactical battles with fighter bays, missile racks, point defence-mounted Disruptors and HD Spike Drivers to shoot down the fighters and missiles, and Spinal/Heavy-mounted Doom Rays and Black Hole Guns for ship-to-ship combat, perhaps varying types of missile hulls designed to take out a particular sized target (small, agile missiles for anti-fighter, and large hulking missiles for anti-capship purposes)... In addition to the great cultural/influence features of this game...
As it stands, I'd probably prefer Master of Orion 2 over this game, but I still find GalCiv2 enjoyable enough to continue playing anyway.
EDIT: Also, further argument... the ship design feature is very nice, but I find it nearly pointless without proper ship battles. I mean, it's nice and all to be able to design your own cool ships, but if you can't see them properly duke it out with the enemy, it's kind of a waste.
With the ship design feature, and the fact that Conquest victories tend to rake in more points... one would think there would be more effort put into the combat phases...
Not their fault Stardock has not the inclination where other companies did.
And I'm not saying MP should be there, but I still think there should be a GalCiv game in the future with proper tactical battles with fighter bays, missile racks, point defence-mounted Disruptors and HD Spike Drivers to shoot down the fighters and missiles, and Spinal/Heavy-mounted Doom Rays and Black Hole Guns for ship-to-ship combat, perhaps varying types of missile hulls designed to take out a particular sized target (small, agile missiles for anti-fighter, and large hulking missiles for anti-capship purposes)... In addition to the great cultural/influence features of this game...
As it stands, I'd probably prefer Master of Orion 2 over this game, but I still find GalCiv2 enjoyable enough to continue playing anyway.
EDIT: Also, further argument... the ship design feature is very nice, but I find it nearly pointless without proper ship battles. I mean, it's nice and all to be able to design your own cool ships, but if you can't see them properly duke it out with the enemy, it's kind of a waste.
With the ship design feature, and the fact that Conquest victories tend to rake in more points... one would think there would be more effort put into the combat phases...
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Well then, why don't you come down to the IRC and speak to the developers about your ideas then?
That's irc.stardock.com #galciv.
If you really want these features added, go where they'll be heard, instead of just complaining on the forums about stardock not having the inclination. Oh, and not having the available time and not having the inclination are different things, just so you know.
That's irc.stardock.com #galciv.
If you really want these features added, go where they'll be heard, instead of just complaining on the forums about stardock not having the inclination. Oh, and not having the available time and not having the inclination are different things, just so you know.
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| Oh, and not having the available time and not having the inclination are different things, just so you know. |
Did I say make it for GalCiv2 or DA? I did not. I said in a future GalCiv game. I know full well about them not having time due to DA and would not presume to think they have time to do anything but work on DA. But that doesn't mean they won't have time after DA to work on such things for, say, GalCiv3.
They could also talk with Quicksilver Interactive on the subject if they wanted. I really liked how they handled ship performance design for MoO3. Even better than MoO2. Just a shame the combat wasn't nearly as good. It was kinda bothersome and I just preferred letting the AI handle it. Though I also understand elements of Simtex are among them, so it's probably the best bet.
EDIT: Though I suppose my 'inclination' statement was more in reference to the fact that such things weren't coded into GalCiv2 in the first place, considering the aforementioned ship design feature and apparent preference for Conquest victories due to points distributions. Though I can understand if such things would have delayed the release of GalCiv2 - probably better to release this game than bother to implement a feature that would expand gameplay but likely postpone release for quite a bit.
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Galciv3 has been suggested to have Tac combat, MP, and at this rate I really wouldn't be surprised if it had carriers, if that's what you mean by a future game. That's a good few years off though, and in this case you would need to wait quite a while before it's finalised.
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| Galciv3 has been suggested to have Tac combat, MP, and at this rate I really wouldn't be surprised if it had carriers, if that's what you mean by a future game. That's a good few years off though, and in this case you would need to wait quite a while before it's finalised. |
I'm okay with that, then. I think I'm now with the 'shut the hell up about carriers' camp, now.
I'm not an unreasonable man. I know things take time. And, really, a sticky about Carriers may help keep the unwashed masses from bringing it up every week. @.@
I have never had delusions that they'd make carriers for GalCiv2. I was quite convinced it'd take far too much time for Stardock to work on. If anyone would do it, it'd be the mod community, and even then, it's really fairly pointless with the way this game runs. I mean, some suggestions sound like they might not be pointless, such as the 'mobile starbase' ... actually, that reminds me of the Tanker-class ship from the original Master of Orion (Or at least Star Lords, or MoO0- I've played a little bit of it in a galaxy with Klackons, Silicoids, and Humans, where I play the Mentats (the original name for the Psilons), and the Silicoids' spying managed to implicate me. Was getting harder and harder to keep face with the Klackons and Humans.
... anyway, there's a Tanker-type ship (well, a module that allows Tanker-type functions) in Star Lords that you can position around systems that don't have colonies yet, and then it's as if you actually had a colony there, with respect to ship range. Was quite handy, up until the AI started forcing me to retreat my Tankers.
Maybe a thread should be started on making Tankers instead of Carriers?
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Don't worry that the majority of people want carriers!!! You will never see them--stardock does not listen to their fans!!!! Remember all those that wanted the cloaking device(didn't happen)---multiplayer(don't see it)---support for rookie modders(nope). There will be those that bash this post--including those that are officially with stardock(moderators etc.)---but prove me wrong!!! U could put a million posts up about wanting something---u will never see it!!!!
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| I'm not an unreasonable man. I know things take time. And, really, a sticky about Carriers may help keep the unwashed masses from bringing it up every week. |
Because it worked so well for every other topic we've stickied.
| Don't worry that the majority of people want carriers!!! You will never see them--stardock does not listen to their fans!!!! Remember all those that wanted the cloaking device(didn't happen)---multiplayer(don't see it)---support for rookie modders(nope) |
I certainly hope that's sarcasm. Just about anything that *isn't* a massive, completely game changing idea has already been added or is planned for DA/GC3. And modding is already as straghtforward as it can get.
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| Don't worry that the majority of people want carriers!!! You will never see them--stardock does not listen to their fans!!!! Remember all those that wanted the cloaking device(didn't happen)---multiplayer(don't see it)---support for rookie modders(nope). There will be those that bash this post--including those that are officially with stardock(moderators etc.)---but prove me wrong!!! U could put a million posts up about wanting something---u will never see it!!!! |
Because obviously we're entitled to these things. Obviously.
I was originally in favor of carriers, but now you can count me in for being officially sick of the subject. I swear, carriers are the new multiplayer.
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| And modding is already as straghtforward as it can get. |
Maybe he expects us to hand him a game file editor with intuitive UI on a silver platter?
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| Well, see, some of these guys come from this little game created by this little company called Simtex, which found the time to code all those things into their little game. They just seem to expect other companies making similar games to be able to find time, as well. |
I'm sorry but that's a really obnoxious comparison. You really want to do a comparison of MOO 2 vs. GalCiv II? MOO is hardly a super set of GalCiv. MOO has some features GalCiv does not and GalCiv has some features that MOO did not have (Simtex's MOO did not have carriers btw). If you want to go play MOO 2 then be my guest.
We have our own ideas on what features should be in or not in. We're not looking to make a MOO clone (especially since the original GalCiv on OS/2 predates MOO 1 for DOS).
We're not doing carriers in GalCiv II. I don't think it would be fun, I don't think it would add much to the game.
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