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SalmonMax
SalmonMax
Join Date 02/2006
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Idea for Expansion? Cloaking Devices!

August 22, 2006 1:07:32 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I suppose this might be tricky to do, programmingwise...but I'd LOVE to see a new tech branch that allows you to "shield" ships from enemy sensors. Starbase modules too!

You could stick 'em on your freighters to help them avoid pirates, on your fleets to stop them from getting intercepted on their way to target, and on your sneaky-deaky Influence Starbases to avoid diplomatic problems! Though the thought of spreading cultural influence via a space station no one can find DOES seem...a little weird.

Perhaps ships with a Survey Sensor suite could have an enhanced range of cloak detection. And it'd only work on the strategic map, I think. Until the final tech on the branch, where you get Tactical Cloaks that give all incoming fire a chance to miss your ship...but it replaces any other defense technology on the ship that has it.

And of course, you could stack multiple cloak units on a ship to increase their effectiveness. I just love the idea of parking Small cloaked sensor ships in enemy space to keep tabs on their fleet movements without them being blown up.

Anyone else think this'd add an interesting new set of tactics, and yet another "arms race" between techs (in this case sensors vs cloaks)?
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SalmonMax
Skyjack
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #1 August 22, 2006 5:56:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Do a search...been debated before.
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SalmonMax
DreadArchon
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #2 August 22, 2006 5:34:16 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Weren't there cloaking devices in GC1?

Not that it matters. Cloaking should logically be ignored if you have Advanced on your espionage with the target, which I almost always do.
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SalmonMax
Cikomyr
Join Date 06/2005
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Reply #3 August 23, 2006 1:14:58 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
false. Advanced give you info on specified ships and planets, no their position and localisation!
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SalmonMax
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Reply #4 August 23, 2006 6:19:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
false. Advanced give you info on specified ships and planets, no their position and localisation!

Maybe kinda true as is, but that's still a ridiculous comment. One of the primary purposes of espionage, if not the primary purpose, is locating enemy units and firguring out where they're going. That's a little less true with the invention of satellites, but it's still the basic idea. One of the main reasons I put money into espionage in this game is to figure out where enemy ships are going so I can counter them (though planet details do figure in). This wouldn't be doing any good if I couldn't see where the enemy ships were, which wouldn't make sense if I had access to all of the transmissions and records of that government!

Edit: But it does seem like cloaking should be in the game, even if espionage as is would logically counter it. Perhaps it would be useful for tactical reasons--you could be given an option to try to evade a firefight when attacked, maybe. Knowledge of the general location of a ship wouldn't help its foes in a shooting match, right?
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SalmonMax
Cikomyr
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Reply #5 August 23, 2006 7:02:22 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
As is, I think galCiv2's whole concept of intelligence is flawed. there isn't any counter-intel possible, how can you know the military rating of a specie you just encountered, or the sum of it's population if you never been near their world? how can you send agents on their worlds if you just encountered their Flagship in remote space?

So, intelligence won't give you anti-cloak capabilities. the anti-cloak should be sensor technology, and if you want to be immune to cloak tactic, just crank up your sensor tech, and build dector ships (super-sensor)
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SalmonMax
Monclova34
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Reply #6 August 23, 2006 7:22:13 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
One of the main reasons I put money into espionage in this game is to figure out where enemy ships are going so I can counter them


O yeah, can you tell me how can you know where are they going if you cant see them?? And Im asking you about now ATM. This only works if you have some sort of AWAC class ship that can know where the enemy is comin from and intercept it, though if your AWAC dies and you lose LOS, and they change direction, youll be at a loss.


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SalmonMax
Scott Wolcott
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #7 August 23, 2006 9:56:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There should be stealth technology, but it shouldn't be magical invisibility.
Stealth on a ship should reduce the effective sensor range it can be seen at.
ship A has a sensor range of 10
enemy ship B has stealth 2

Ship A cannot see ship B unless it is 8 spaces away.
It's straightforward, simple, and very realistic.
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SalmonMax
Cikomyr
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Reply #8 August 23, 2006 10:48:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
May I redirect you directly to this post?

https://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=162&aid=125080#968555
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SalmonMax
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Reply #9 August 23, 2006 11:59:31 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
seems to be a dead horse. I agree with this :

There should be stealth technology, but it shouldn't be magical invisibility.
Stealth on a ship should reduce the effective sensor range it can be seen at.
ship A has a sensor range of 10
enemy ship B has stealth 2

Ship A cannot see ship B unless it is 8 spaces away.
It's straightforward, simple, and very realistic.


completely. However doesn't the AI tend to not bother puting sensors on it's ships anyway ? I think the bigger issue would be, why bother with stealth? You can build uber fast ships that the AI can't handle as it is, so why make them hard to see ?

You'd need some other factor to make it good as is. (Like improve the odds in a fight of taking no damage (a miss), or be able to escape a fight altogether.
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SalmonMax
Scott Wolcott
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Reply #10 August 24, 2006 12:40:06 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
completely. However doesn't the AI tend to not bother puting sensors on it's ships anyway ? I think the bigger issue would be, why bother with stealth? You can build uber fast ships that the AI can't handle as it is, so why make them hard to see ?

You'd need some other factor to make it good as is. (Like improve the odds in a fight of taking no damage (a miss), or be able to escape a fight altogether.


If that's the case the AI needs much more work than I thought.
I think for there to be real tactical combat there does need to be an evasion system in place.

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SalmonMax
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Reply #11 August 24, 2006 3:03:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
One of the main reasons I put money into espionage in this game is to figure out where enemy ships are going so I can counter them


Huh? espionage doesn't help you see enemy ships.  
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SalmonMax
Monclova34
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Reply #12 August 25, 2006 8:01:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Thats what I said , but he never explained his methods...


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SalmonMax
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Reply #13 August 27, 2006 1:52:23 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Personaly, I think that cloaking devices would be a great addition to the game. But then you would have to debate that whole romulan can't fire while cloaked thing.
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SalmonMax
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Reply #14 August 27, 2006 5:20:26 AM
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cloaking would be nice, it was in MoO2, too.
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SalmonMax
Monclova34
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Reply #15 August 27, 2006 10:17:15 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Personaly, I think that cloaking devices would be a great addition to the game. But then you would have to debate that whole romulan can't fire while cloaked thing.


That was only a treay I think, the ships could fire while cloack, but if they did it was breaking the peace treaty, same with Klingons, though in the movie Star Trek VI.


"Plot:
An accident on the Klingon moon Praxis forces the reluctant Klingon Empire into a peace treaty with the Federation. Kirk, despite his mistrust of the Klingons after they murdered his son at Genesis, is forced to escort a Klingon cruiser carrying the Klingon Chancellor to Earth for the meetings. During the voyage the Klingon cruiser is attacked, and Kirk & McCoy are taken prisoner after the Chancellor is murdered by two Starfleet crewmen. Spock immediately begins an investigation, while Kirk & McCoy are sentenced to life on Rura Penthe - a deep-frozen asteroid. Spock, meanwhile, has discovered that a Klingon Bird of Prey - one that can fire when cloaked, and under the command of Kingon General Chang - is the ship responsible for firing on the Chancellor, and the 2 assassins came from the Enterprise. A rescue of Kirk & McCoy is successful, after which they discover a conspiracy among Starfleet, Klingon, and Romulan officials whose plan is to incite a full-blown war! The Enterprise & Excelsior - under the command of Hikaru Sulu - head for a deadly rendezvous with General Chang at the peace summit to prevent war from breaking out...but will they be too late?"

Im all for Cloaking, hope we get it someday     

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SalmonMax
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Reply #16 August 27, 2006 3:13:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That was actually a special ship. Most cloaked ships couldn't fire--something about power requirements or whatnot. There was a treaty that the Federation wouldn't develop cloaking technology, though Picard seems to have been the only one in the Federation who actually followed it.
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Reply #17 August 27, 2006 9:37:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That was actually a special ship. Most cloaked ships couldn't fire--something about power requirements or whatnot. There was a treaty that the Federation wouldn't develop cloaking technology, though Picard seems to have been the only one in the Federation who actually followed it.



Realy? I thought the whole thing was because the cloat is a sort of sheild, and if you fired in it, you would turn yourself into an invisable fireball.
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SalmonMax
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Reply #18 August 27, 2006 9:48:31 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, the Scimitar in Star Trek : Nemesis could fire while cloaked.

The thing is, when you fire while cloak, you reveal your position. Also, your shields are supposed to be down. So your "invisibility" becomes the only defence against ennemy fire.

(I never understood why Kirk and Sulu did not fired manual-aimed phasers at the cloaked Bird of Prey. They could have at least delayed his attacks)
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Reply #19 August 28, 2006 5:26:18 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Picard seems to have been the only one in the Federation who actually followed it.


The treaty was with the Romulans, not the klingons, and Picard hated the idea, it was another officer that was continuing to research that technology even after an incident on a special federation ship that ended up inside an asteroid field, cuz the technology wasnt "cloacking technology", it was "out of phase" tech, so they could go through solid objects and be invisible to the naked eye. I remmember also William Riker #1 servered and helped the rogue officer till almost the end of that episode when he turned him in and Picard told of the "Rogue Research" going on to the Romulans to avert a future incident, possibly a war.


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SalmonMax
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Reply #20 August 28, 2006 5:36:31 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

I'd LOVE to see a new tech branch that allows you to "shield" ships from enemy sensors

Given the fact that the AI doesn't search the sensor branch, I am not sure if it is really useful.

More, the devs have stated numerous time that the AI must be able to use that any added feature. And currently, thet aren't really doing a good job with sensors.

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