How On Earth Do You Keep 29 Billion People Happy

ok, sometimes i come accross a planet with a 100 or 200 percent farm tile, and when i lay down a farm the max population grows but my god, there next to impossible to keep so many happy, can anyone please tell me how you keep more then 5 bil happy, i usually do ok with 5 bil and can keep it 95% or over, but 29 seems impossible, infact is it even worth it? do you really get an increase from a bigger pop?
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Reply #1 Top
Lol i thought this was going to be a question about the questionable methods needed to keep that many happy on one planet. Mind control and psychoactive drugs come to mind...

Um in game turns ive never had a problem with it. Often i dont build on a 300% farm tile unless i want a transport building planet though. Just design a cheapo trannie and pump em out by the tonne. Either that or make sure you have as many trade goods like harmony crystals etc that help people to be happy. A coupla entertainment buildings wouldnt go awry either. i remember reading somewhere about some 25b usefull pop limit or something but i really have no idea.
Reply #2 Top
if you build a farm on a +100% farming tile you will need about 3 morale buildings to keep them as happy as a 5 bil planet without any (or a planet with a normal farm with one) such buildings. you know, entertainment complex ect...just my experience.

and i dont even bother using a +200% (wasnt it 300?) farming tile to farm, that would use up too many tiles to make them happy as the morale buildings even decrease in efficiency the more ppl you got on a planet.
Reply #3 Top
well i had one planet, it had 16 tiles, and also a 100% farm and a 300% farm, i only built on the 100, it was mainly a manufacturing planet, with manufacturing plants takign up about 8 tiles, 1 starport, 1 farm, harmony crystals, the highest form of entertainment center, had about 3 of them and spices and they were still only at 60 happiness...
Reply #4 Top
Does it really help to have a huge population?
And how do you keep 29 billion people on a planet? lol
Reply #5 Top
Easy - drain the oceans and build lots of high rise towers

In my experience anything over 20b people just becomes too much of a headache to do anything with, but then by the time I have planets that large I'm usually prosecuting wars that need a healthy supply of troops so the problem doesn't persist for too long.
Reply #6 Top
well i had one planet, it had 16 tiles, and also a 100% farm and a 300% farm, i only built on the 100, it was mainly a manufacturing planet, with manufacturing plants takign up about 8 tiles, 1 starport, 1 farm, harmony crystals, the highest form of entertainment center, had about 3 of them and spices and they were still only at 60 happiness...


dont make a manufacturing planet have so much population. If you got such a planet where you want alot of ppl live on, build alot of economic buildings which will give a little morale if you develope them enough. ALSO build some economic on all planets so you wont have to raise the taxes that high and get all damn morale trade goods/wonders for you peoples sake!(the ai does not seem to like them anyway) There are more then just crystals and spices(i think).

In my experience anything over 20b people just becomes too much of a headache to do anything with, but then by the time I have planets that large I'm usually prosecuting wars that need a healthy supply of troops so the problem doesn't persist for too long.


Agreed
Reply #7 Top
Ok the main thing people are overlooking is the effect taxes have on morale. I fim not ,istaken it is greater than even the planets population With taxes in the the thirtyish range its not a problem keeping them happy I think only one morale building per farm or one per five billion people on the planet so an advanced farm will require two morlae buildings, add that massive pop with some econ buildings and any world is an econ world.
Reply #8 Top
I've rarely gotten this far in the game before winning (or losing), but...

If you have a high PQ planet (>20), with those 300% farm bonus tiles, and...

you load them up with stock markets (each of which gives a 10% morale bonus), and...

you get a couple o' morale resources, then...

I think you can handle a 30+ billion population...

and really rock on your economy...

Theoretically.
Reply #9 Top
People in the future are to whiney! It's hard to run a city (sim city 4 is a pain) much less a goverment! Do they think it is easy to run ENTIRE planets?

They even get P.O.ed when you have all morale trade goods and V.R. centers. "Oh the taxes are to high, we want a better goverment"...get over it future peoples!   

Good...got that out of my system   
Reply #10 Top
I wish you could kill the ones that complain...put 'em in as slaves or concentration camps.

P.S. I read that the Korath in Dark Avatar are genocidal. Can they build concentration camps to (cough) "take care" of the disatisfied citizens?
Reply #11 Top
well it depends, i mean remember planets have a pop limit depending on PQ, also the PQ gives a bonus to the approval, so its best to build onlbig planets, its best to have a couple extra entertainment structures vs farms, like 3 ent. for 2 farms, or 7 ent. for 5 farms, high pop is good for money (tax) better than building economic buildings, also transports, and it harder to invade.
Reply #12 Top
Unless you want to batter your tax rate (not a good idea unless that's your only planet!) you'll need between 6 and 12 high end entertainment buildings depending on just how many morale trade goods and resources you have tapped. By the way, morale never gets worse past 25B, so if you really want a population that high, you might as well go ahead and make it a really mega population. Large populations are not good for making money because taxes scale with the square root of population. You normally can't go wrong with one farm, but beyond that you're better off building economy buildings.

BTW, morale gets extremely tough past 20B, but up to that point it's reasonably manageable. Best advice is don't build a farm that will take the population cap past 20B unless you really want a high population for some other reason, and are prepared to build loads of morale buildings to support it!

high pop is good for money (tax) better than building economic buildings


This isn't quite right. The very first farm is often better than a stockmarket, but *only* if either you don't have to build an extra entertainment building or you already have several economy buildings down on the planet. Pretty much the same holds true for a second farm, except in that case it's almost never worth it.

Reply #13 Top
I never had problem keeping my people happy.

For every farm I build, there's 2 morale boosting building. I usually keep my taxes at 80% that way and my approval stays at around 95%+. I remember having a planet with a +300% population tile. I dropped a farm on it, built 8 virtual reality centers and filled the rest with stock markets. I think that planet gave me 600bc+ per turn.
Reply #14 Top
To keep 25 billion or more people happy, you need any one of the following:
  • Four Entertainment networks (+25 morale each)
  • Three Multimedia Centers (+30 each)
  • Two of anything higher.
Racial bonuses and empire-wide bonuses will reduce the morale bonus needed down from 80%. Here's a chart of the morale bonus needed for all population levels (There's a cap at 80%):
Reply #15 Top
AngleWyrm brings up a good point. It's just as easy to keep about 25 billion people happy as it is to keep 100 billion. It'll take 6-8 VR centers, and other morale goodies... but then again, having a 70 billion population planet is useful for war. (Either for capturing planets, repopulating captured planets, or boosting garrisons of planets that are hit.)

Ofcourse the taxes don't hurt either.
Reply #16 Top
The only good reason to have a high pop. is when you don't have any ships defending your plant the AI has to spend alot of it own people to get it. At the end of one of my longer games I had a morale bonus of 215% which is all the trade goods and i think 3 or 4 morale resouces. just about all my plants had 15 billion limit a few had 20 billion. but on one i went all out the cap. was at 85 billion only got up to about 55 billion so far. the planty bonus for morale was 565%. it really wasn't that helpful. but it was nice to have exact troops around when you need them. but any way id say stick you 15 billion with good bonuses you can keep everyone happy with 70 % taxes. which for that game was 33705 a turn   
Reply #17 Top
A cheapo trannie

Ha ha.

I always thought it was odd that I could sustain a tax rate of 80%. I could never get it any higher, though - for some reason, 81% freaked people out.
Reply #18 Top
I tend to use the same initial build for every planet below PQ 5 (all research except one financial) and a different one for all planets above that - 2 factories, a starport, one financial, one research (or another factory).

Once the initial build is finished I specialize according to any bonus tiles and/or distance from the frontier. Border worlds should emphasize production; interior worlds can have a financial or research emphasis.
Reply #19 Top
I actually wondered this myself. There was some good advice in the responses I got. It does get annoying when you're fighting a war of tooth-and-nail survival and your population is whining about how much of your budget is spent on the military.

The consensus seems to be "use food bonus tiles carefully or not at atll." It does seem like planets of <=20PQ aren't worth pushing above a certain population. Conquering more planets and spreading population out more might be the easiest thing to do.
Reply #20 Top
To keep 25 billion or more people happy, you need any one of the following:
Four Entertainment networks (+25 morale each)
Three Multimedia Centers (+30 each)
Two of anything higher.


No, it doesn't work like that. The penalty from your nice graph has two effects...firstly a straight drop in morale, and secondly (and more importantly) a severe reduction in the effectiveness of each building and the racial bonus. An entertainment centre built on a 1B population planet will add 25% to morale vs just a 5% increase on a planet with 25B+.
Reply #21 Top
I always thought it was odd that I could sustain a tax rate of 80%. I could never get it any higher, though - for some reason, 81% freaked people out.


80% is the highest you can go without pissing off every person in you empire, the highest moral I ever heard was 9%, the usuall is 1%, but i'm curius what's with that 1%, do they love to pay taxes?!

And what is up with the future people being so bitchy? Hell if I was their leader in real life i'd say, "stop bitching and get to work or i'll hang ya by the balls"!
Reply #22 Top
To keep 26B+ population at 100% morale with an 80% tax rate reuired me to have a +465% Civilization morale bonus and a +425% planet morale bonus ( from buildings on the planet ) -- virtual reality centers give +60% morale and stock exchanges give +10% morale. Haven't counted how many morale resourses i got but wouldn't doubt if it was 10 ( should be 10; 10x44 = 440 + 25% from techs = 465% ).

Note population stops affecting morale after 26B, so grow grow grow.

Having said that, it is a real pain to grow population above 21-22B even with a +465% civilization morale bonus. So just put those guys on transports and do some conquering. If you are trying to max out population for game points -- good luck -- it's a real pain.

Oh and with that huge civilization bonus and planet bonus's , i can actually have some morale with with taxes > 80%. With 81% tax my civilization morale is 3%. I have 1 planet with +265% planet morale and 20.3B population that has 44% morale with 81% tax. Also all my planets of class 5 and lower are 100% morale with 100% tax and populations up to 4.2B and they have no planet morale bonus's. I got rid of all my virtual reality centers upgrading them to stock markets, after deciding it just isn't worth it to get to 26B+ population.

Personally i think those future people are totally lame as i have 100% morale with 80% tax all the time -- can you imagine 80% tax in the US? -- no way.
Reply #23 Top
ha thats mad cuz i have never got my take past 50%
and why would you let your moral drop to 3% or 1%, is the aim not to keep it at 80%>?

so there is no real aim to having a bigger population, it wont make production or research faster?
Reply #24 Top
so there is no real aim to having a bigger population


Not really. It'll make your planet virtually unconquerable by the AI, but that's no huge bonus. It has a small effect on trade value...if you have 10 freighters coming from one planet you'll get roughly 40BC per turn extra per 10B people on a gigantic map. It is just (JUST) about worth it if you're prepared to go to all the hassle of setting up 240% trade bonuses using starbases all the way along the route. I looked at the math and for a 100B population you're probably looking in the region of 4000BC per turn income from trade and taxes thanks to that one planet. But it's a massive undertaking and I haven't tried it yet.

It wont make production or research faster?


No.
Reply #25 Top
The problem with large populations, is that as soon as you grow even 1 planet past 15 Billion, you have to lower your tax rate. Since the tax rate affects all the planets in your empire, you're just causing yourself headaches by having large populations. The extra money you get from that one 25+Billion planet is outweighed the the loss of income from all of your other planets, due to the reduced tax rate you have to run.

This seems a major design flaw to me - it doesn't make the game unplayable by any means, but it sure makes for some headaches to the player just learning the system.

Here's a breakdown on morale boosts available in the game.

Techs that help you boost morale:

Xeno Ethics: Harmony Crystals Trade Good (+20)
Xeno Cultural Trends: Frictionless Clothing Trade good (+10)
Galactic Stock Exchange: Stock Market gives +10

Xeno Entertainment: (+10) inherent boost, upgrade morale buildings to +30
Extreme Entertainment: (+5) inherent boost, upgrade morale buildings to +45, Ultra Spices trade good (+15)
Zero G Sports Arenas: (+5) inherent boost, upgrade morale buildings to +50
Virtual Reality Centers: (+5) inherent boost, upgrade morale buildings to +60, VR Modules trade good (+12)

The last 4 techs are all up one path in the tech tree - Xeno Entertainment, Extreme Entertainment, Zero G Sports Arenas, and VR Centers. Since the vast bulk of your morale boosts come from here, as well as 2 of the 4 trade goods, it's in your best interests to put some early focus on this path in the tech tree.

Adding up all the bonuses you can get from these techs, not counting the building bonuses, will give you a +82 morale bonus. Each Stock market gives +10, and each VR Center gives +60.

As mentioned by another poster, the problem is that ALL of these bonuses are affected by the base morale of the planet, which drops drastically as the population grows. So, when you reach 25 Billion+ on a planet, suddenly that +82 morale bonus is only worth about +16! (Base morale for 25+ Billion = 20%. 20% of 82 is 16).

Since a 20 Billion sized planet has a base morale of 40%, you get TWICE the value from all of your morale boosts. A 15 billion planet, with a base morale of 60%, gets THREE times the value from your morale boosts! So, you need more than three times the number of VR Centers and Stock exchanges on a 25+ Billion planet, not the least of which is due to the penalty you take to your ability bonus (the +82 mentioned above).

Also, I've been informed that taxes are a function of the square root of your population. So, you'll get 3x your tax rate at 9 Billion people, 4x your tax rate at 16 Billion people, and only 5x your tax rate at 25 Billion people. That's an awfully marginal gain in tax revenue for the headaches large populations cause.

One other thing to consider is that high quality planets (those with a PQ rating of 11 or more) give you an UNMODIFIED +10% morale boost.

Just to give you some food for thought, let's consider a 15B planet with 1 VR Center and 1 Stock market (I only do this on planets with a PQ > 10, to get the extra +10% morale boost from a high quality planet). Also, keep in mind that these values don't take into account using race pick points on morale, or any anomalies or galactic morale resources:

15B population = base 60% morale.
Ability bonus = (82 X .6) = +49% morale.
1 VR Center + 1 Stock Exchange = (70 X .6) = +42% morale.
High Quality planet = +10% morale.

60 + 49 + 42 + 10 = 161% morale, allowing you to run a tax rate of almost 50% and still keep your approval rate at 100%.

Let's compare this to a 20B planet:

20B population = base 40% morale.
Ability bonus = (82 X .4) = +33% morale.
1 VR Center + 1 Stock Exchange = (70 X .4) = +28% morale.
High Quality planet = +10% morale.

40 + 33 + 28 + 10 = 111% morale, allowing you to run a tax rate of only 10% and still keep your approval rate at 100%.

Now, let's look at the devastation that having even one planet at 25+B will wreak upon your economy:

25+B population = base 20% morale.
Ability bonus = (82 X .2) = +16% morale.
1 VR Center + 1 Stock Exchange = (70 X .2) = +14% morale.
High Quality planet = +10% morale.

20 + 16 + 14 + 10 = 60% morale, meaning you'll still need a bunch of VR Centers to boost your morale up and still keep your approval rate at 100%!!!

Since each VR Center adds +12% morale and each Stock Exhange +2%, if you want to get your approval rate up to the 161% that your 15B planets are enjoying, you'll need another 8 VR Centers (+96) and 3 Stock exchanges (+6) to be able to run a 50% tax rate. OUCH.

At the very least, you'll need a planet with around 20 tiles just to THINK about growing a large population: 9 VR Centers, 4 Stock Exchanges, 1 Colony base, 2 farms, and say, 4 factories. And that's just for 25 Billion. Each additional 10 billion will need another tile for another farm.

When you think about the rather marginal gain in tax revenue generated from the large populations, compared with the loss of those tiles for research and production, it's just not worth it to create large population planets. Need a bunch of transports? Just build 1 transport each on several planets, rather than creating a "hive" planet: your population will recover faster anyway, since growth rate maxes out at around 2.5 Billion people. Need more influence? Build embassies, not farms.

When you consider the fact that a colony with no farms will cap out at 5 Billion, and with 1 farm it caps out at 15 (with all farming techs), it's just not worth the hassle of building more than 1 farm on a planet, and even at that, I'd only do it on high quality planets (11+ Tiles).

On each High quality planet, I stick 1 farm, 1 VR Center, 1 Stock exchange, 4 factories, then, if it's a manufacturing center, I build a starport and fill the rest of the tiles with factories. If it's a research world, I fill the rest of the tiles with labs.

On low quality planets, I build no farms, VR Centers, or Stock exchanges - I just put up factories and labs.

On your homeworld, which has a base population cap of 10 Billion, I build a couple of Stock exchanges, no VR centers, and no farms. You could try adjusting this to 1 farm, but if you do, you'll find that you either have to lower your tax rate, or build a fair number of VR centers.

Going back to my earlier point regarding tax revenue - since taxes are based on the square root of your population, you're only gaining about 33% more money from a 25B planet than you do from a 15B planet (square root of 25 = 5, square root of 15 ~ 4). That means that adding a SINGLE Stock exchange to a 15 Billion planet will give you almost as much revenue as adding another farm and the 8 or so VR centers you'll need to boost the morale back up (1 Stock exchange = +30% revenue).

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What does all this mean? For one thing, they've obviously nerfed the heck out of large populations in this game, for whatever design reasons they had. I could care less, except that I had to beat my brains out trying to figure out why my economy was crashing so hard, until I realized that farms are BAD.

NEVER build a farm on a farming bonus tile. Even a +100% tile will push your population to 25 Billion. Farming bonus tiles in this game are red herrings. They should just remove them from the game altogether.