Armed Cargo Hulls

Has anyone else tried this?

from GalCiv2 Forums
In the early game, when logistics, miniaturization and weaponry are in the early stages one of the things I like to do is have a ship design that basically takes advantage of the space on a cargo hull to have very fast (by early standards) ships with a single weapon. Working with sensor ships to get information on enemy whereabouts, I can avoid enemy fleets and destroy freighters, unarmed starbases, colony ships and transports. I like to call them 'wolfpacks' after the WW2 u-boats.

Trouble is, the AI seems to seriously underestimate the threat these things pose. They become obsolete later in the game, when propulsion techniques allow proper combat ships to defend against them.

Any chance we can see the AI using these kinds of ships in a future update? It would make for some fun confrontations with two ships, each with one hitpoint, cruising just out of range of one another...
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I thought players stopped using armed cargo hulls when the first strike advantage was mostly taken away. I see how a fast armed cargo hull ship would be effective in the early game. I my games set on very fast research, Warp drive has already been reached by most players by the time the first war breaks out (started by me).
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The problem with those kinds of ships is that they will almost always lose, one-on-one, against ships that have more HP than they do. They can be very effective in fleets, at least in the early game, but generally stand no chance against a well-defended ship with more HP.
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I've been using these kind of ships a lot against the Dread Lords to keep them from invading my planets. I would equip a transport with a single weapond and put as many engines as I could fit. With these, I would intercept the Dread Lords troop transports before they could reach any of my planets and run away from the warships until I could research enough tech to face them. I call them TT Hunters.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
With the new battle system in 1.2, cargo battleships are only useful for fighting unarmed and unescorted ships. The first time they meet an armed opponent they're gone (as well as all the money you put into them--they aren't terribly cheap).
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
ive seen the ai use this strat ... i just think the ai doesnt generally use it because it kinda sux (although does have its uses)
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well I never use them to fight proper combat ships, there's no chance of victory. And because an armed cargo hull can have speed and sensors at 7 when the AI doesn't go over 3, you can pick the fights they go into.

I just like to use smaller fleets with more specialised roles in the ships, IMO it's more economical both financially and logistically.

So since when was destroying an enemy's trade income and starbases not a viable strategy? Maybe it's just me
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
(Citizen)MascrinthusAugust 1, 2006 16:08:37Reply #1I thought players stopped using armed cargo hulls when the first strike advantage was mostly taken away. I see how a fast armed cargo hull ship would be effective in the early game. I my games set on very fast research, Warp drive has already been reached by most players by the time the first war breaks out (started by me).



They are still very effective in the early game and once I reach large hull I upgrade them and continue them in the same role as transport, freighter & starbase Raiders.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
It strikes me as the best (only?) effective strategy against the Dread Lords at this point in the campaign (they just appeared) is not large dreadnought ships, but large fleets of midgetty flea ships. The dreadnoughts die in one round and never do anything. The fleas die instantly too, but one dead flea leaves two or three other fleas to shoot their crappy plasma beams at the DL ship.

Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I dont see the point of arming cargo hulls But armouring cargo hulls in fleets they can be valuable if well defended as they will because of the way fleet combat is worked out increase the defense of the fighters

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I dont see the point of arming cargo hulls But armouring cargo hulls in fleets they can be valuable if well defended as they will because of the way fleet combat is worked out increase the defense of the fighters


No, it won't. If a ship has no weapons, the enemy will simply wait until they've destroyed everything else and they can pick it apart at their leisure. Regardless how much defense it has. And aside from slowing (but not preventing) its own inevitable destruction, putting defenses on an unarmed ship will have absolutely zero effect on the battle's outcome.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I use cargo hulls to create very beefy scout ships with enough engines to make them the fastest thing on the map. In war, I use them as mobile scanners to help guide my armadas to enemy ships and give me early warning against enemy transports.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was startled in the game I am playing at the moment when the Arceans produced a series of armed cargo hulls and started using them to attack my transports and small warships. I'd kinda crushed most of their fleet, and they needed some cheap offensive power fast, so they did exactly what I would have done. Nice! I had to call a truce and re-organise my ships... I'd gotten sloppy and had a lot of unprotected transports and constructors vulnerable.


(It won't save them though...)
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've used armed cargo hulls as suicide ships. You research tons of miniaturization and become evil, loading them up with psyonic beams and other powerful evil weapons. For a bit of survivability, add some defense, and it might actually live (against small ships). Use fleets of them to destroy lone big ships at just a fraction of the cost!
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I use them in the middle game

I put the smallest weapon I have and as many engines that will fit and a few sensors

I end up with a ship that has 3-4 attack and 20-60 movement that I use to poach traders and constructors and unarmed starbases, then run away out of range of military ships
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
No, it won't. If a ship has no weapons, the enemy will simply wait until they've destroyed everything else and they can pick it apart at their leisure. Regardless how much defense it has. And aside from slowing (but not preventing) its own inevitable destruction, putting defenses on an unarmed ship will have absolutely zero effect on the battle's outcome.



So why do you think the AI builds transports with one defense in each category, but no attack? I don't think it always does this, but I do notice it being done by various races.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Defense only applies to the ship it's on, not other ships in the fleet. Only exception there are the defense bonuses that a military starbase can give to ships within its radius.

I don't know why the AI would put defense and no offense on its ships. Only reason I can think of is that there may be a UP vote for adding defense to all cargo ships (or is that weapons?)
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
don't know why the AI would put defense and no offense on its ships. Only reason I can think of is that there may be a UP vote for adding defense to all cargo ships (or is that weapons?)


No, Pierpoint, that's not when it happens. I've seen that vote, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve transports, which is what the AI builds its defenses on. I've heard that the AI might build only defensive ships early in the game with a mind to upgrading them later (like it builds combat ships with no weapons or defense at all). If it does make sense for combat ships -- and I'm not sure it does -- it certainly doesn't for a transport.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've noticed on occasion some of my transports getting 1 defense in all categories.

I think when orbiting a planet. I'm not sure why, but I presume this is what you're seeing...
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've noticed on occasion some of my transports getting 1 defense in all categories.

I think when orbiting a planet. I'm not sure why, but I presume this is what you're seeing...


Ah, so maybe it's only when they're in orbit? I don't think so, but you could be right. I'll try to pay attention to that tonight, as the Altarians are busting in on me with their much stronger fleet. Yeah, I'll be seeing their transports any turn now!
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I do that a lot at the beginning, as soon as I research 'space weapons' my Apothess design becomes available as I used particle beam and Ion drive, which I usually have by then. with some speed they're good for harassing undefended ships, and later on I stick on some defenses- whichever type the enemy seems to be using most- and use them for combating smaller ships. they get totally owned by anything remotely useful though, I don't use much defenses as they cost a lot and I usually don't have much miniaturization.