Rendorax Rendorax

The game is too easy

The game is too easy

I heard this game had good AI...

I'm a veteran Civilization player, used to playing on the higher difficulty levels and facing overwhelming AI bonuses and advantages not available to me, due to the pathetic AI in the Civ series. I was excited when I heard about this game, because everyone said the AI was so great. I'm sitting here, looking at the victory screen again, wondering what they were talking about.

I'm currently playing on Painful, with no real challenge. I'm thinking of skipping the other difficulty levels and going directly to Suicidal.

Am I doing something wrong? How do I make the AI actually challenge me? I've tried small galaxies, medium galaxies, huge galaxies, random everything, abundant everything, common everything, etc.

What settings give the AI a fighting chance? Not that it can wage war worth crap, but... maybe... with a good enough start, it can be at least a challenge to defeat.

And, yes, I've tried winning all four different ways, though it's usually a bit boring and tedious to do the tech win. I hate pressing enter fifty times.

edit: forgot that there are four ways to win, and originally said three.
78,197 views 44 replies
Reply #26 Top
cheat? oh you mean the bonuses given to the AI...Cheating is only applicable if there is a hidden game mechanic reserved for AI's alone which would give them lets say...



LOL. So if I was playing in a MP game, and i hacked my game to give me extra bonuses, I wouldn't be cheating?
Reply #27 Top
Yeah I find that amusing too. Just because we know about it doesn't mean it's not cheating. Also, we don't get access to those bonuses, so by your own logic it is in fact cheating.
Reply #28 Top

I find that players that find the game "easy" are usually playing on very specific map conditions using a very specific strategy.

The larger galaxy sizes are easier for humans than the smaller ones since the AI has a harder time coordinating forces over larger sizes and the human player can make the most of starbases.

No AI can be all to all people, but I think on all galaxy sizes other than the very largest ones that the AI presents a pretty strong challenge, without cheating, for nearly all players.

If someone finds it easy, then try playing on different map sizes, try playing with fewer players (or more players), try the technology trade options (such as turning them off), and so forth.

Reply #29 Top
I find it difficult for you to justify that the game is too easy when you're playing five difficulty levels below max. That might be your problem.


Gee.... Try playing on maso level or higher with the intense AI on using version 1.2 or above. Suicidal is nice.

Then report your findings.

The AI bonuses compensate for the fact that the AI can't has some difficulty coordinating its attacks and speed advantages can be more decisively applied by the real flesh and blood player.

I think the AI has noticably improved in each patch.

Remember, the flesh and blood player is not treated differently than an other AI empire.


Reply #30 Top
The AI needs to adapt more to a players weapons.

EX: I have 20 massdriver and 10 sheild. The enemy has 25 beam and 10 sheild. The enemy will lose because I have better ships. They may as well lose the sheilds on their ships.

They need to be more aggressive and war mongering.

Also a cheesy tactic to play on the AI is have an alliance with them, line up transports around their planets, and invade. They wont know what hit 'em. It would be wonderful for them to stab you in the back once in a while...give the player a sense of paranoia...
Reply #31 Top
Speaking of paranoia, any one seen John Carpenter's THE THING?

That movie is freaky to the max. Also what if you could release some thing like the thing on a rival race? check it out at wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing

It's a movie thats not for the faint of heart. It's scary. Having a a husky blow up and turn on you isn't the most comforting thing in the world for Netro Mancer.

If you want to see pictures of it type "John Carpenter's the thing" in a google search to see it. But be warned...

PS: yes I know this is way off topic.
Reply #32 Top
LOL. So if I was playing in a MP game, and i hacked my game to give me extra bonuses, I wouldn't be cheating?


hi richrf, as long as you told the other player you would do so, and they agreed to continue to play with you, then it is not cheating. But if you did it on the quiet then it would be cheating. Fair?

Reply #33 Top
I find that players that find the game "easy" are usually playing on very specific map conditions using a very specific strategy.


Thanks for the reply. I've read through all of the posts in this thread, and I've taken some of the suggestions. For example, I've been told that the mid-level difficulty levels are not all that difficult at all. In my defense, in the initial post, I was trying to find a way to challenge myself through cunning, intelligent AI, rather than cheesy bonuses applied to the AI. Yes, increasing the difficulty level is a quite viable strategy for increasing the amount of challenge. However, I find that a game's AI doesn't play any better of a game once it has all these bonuses applied; rather, once you know the AI's weaknesses, you can quite easily exploit these weaknesses despite the added bonuses. For example, if you can win on Tough, then it's almost guaranteed that you can win on the next two or three difficulty levels. The AI doesn't play substantially better. It still enters into wars without any kind of plan, and it still suicides its fleets against mine, when any human player would know not to waste an entire army like that.

I wish that I had taken specific notes about the AI's behavior, now that I potientally have the attention of the company. As I mentioned above, in my initial post, I have tried many different strategies, many different galaxies, and many different races. I don't always go towards a political victory, but my victories do lean towards political victories, because I want to wrap up the game (killing every single race gets tedious for me, when I KNOW that I'm going to win).

That's another problem that I have: at a certain point, I essentially KNOW that I'm going to win. There are, of course, random events, which can change the balance of power. However, these happen so rarely that they hardly factor into my games. I've gone entire games without getting any random events (or, at least, random events that affect me or visibly affect my race). In rare cases, I've gone two full games without any random events.

My latest victories have been on Crippling difficulty. I plan to move on to Masochistic and Suicidal before long. My initial plan was to skip directly to Suicidal, but I figured that toying around with each difficulty level would be better; that way, I'd be able to say what I found lacking or exciting about each difficulty level, rather than simply stating that the game is too easy.

My biggest problems with the AI behavior:

1) It can't wage war. I'm fairly good with both strategy and tactics, but I can't really be bothered to apply myself and think too far ahead. The AI should be able to take advantage of my mental laziness. Let's say, for example, that I declare war on a race, without much thought to how I'm going to conquer them. I don't have enough troop transports, my worlds are not populated enough to sustain the continual drain of sending colonists to war, and my ship designs are not state-of-the-art. You'd expect to be utterly destroyed. However, this is quite often how the AI wages war, and, when I'm caught totally unprepared for war, I find it simplistic to muster up a few fleets of state-of-the-art ships, grow my worlds to a point at which they can sustain the war effort, and pump out enough troop transports to take half the enemy's planets. After this humiliating defeat, the AI will often give up a few more planets for peace, then surrender to an ally. All because THEY declared war on ME. Crazy, man. They shouldn't be declaring war on me, unless they have a PLAN. I sure as hell will take advantage of the AIs shortcomings; however, when I declare war on the AI without a plan (or get caught up unprepared in a war), I find it very, very easy to walk all over the AI. The AI will send out unprotected troop transports, even on the higher difficulty settings, like Crippling. The AI will have only one defender on its home planet, even on Crippling. The AI will make ships with lasers when my entire army is equipped with very high level Shields defense. I don't get it. Why do people lose wars with the AI, when it can't even make a decent ship design? And, yes, this is on v1.2, with all the AIs set to Genius, with "intensive AI" checked. And it still sends out unescorted troop transports. This is a genius? I think not.

2) The worlds, when I spy on them, are not put to use to the best of their ability. I understand that it must be difficult to write algorithms to do so, but the AI is held up as a defining feature of this game. Often, the worlds seem haphazardly built-up, like a player just learning how to play the game had plopped down a few factories, then randomly selected from the remaining choices. Maybe this is why I consistently win against the AI: my worlds have specific purposes, and I'm not afraid to decommission old buildings and build new structures, if I think a planet could be used better as an economy, research, manufacturing, military, cultural, or galactic wonder planet. Or some combination of them.

3) The AI players hardly ever trade tech amongst themselves. Why do they constantly have no current tech, 4000 credits, and good relations with other civilizations? This shouldn't happen! The AI players should be constantly checking to see what trades are possible. I do. I always end up having the most tech and the most money in the game, even when I supposedly only do a miniscule amount of research. Some people have suggested that, in order to create a more challenging game, I don't build any research structures. Fair enough. Having done so, I was still leading in tech. Why? I knew that the AI would never make enough trades with each other. I became the "tech broker", as many Civ players call this strategy.

4) Why are the AI players so scared of the following design?

Cargo Hull
5 lasers
no engine
no life support
no sensors
no defense
1 total hit point

That's crazy. I build one of these ships, and the AI players are scared to death of me for the next 50-75 turns. I'm sorry, but that's just plain stupid. It's not what I'd call a "genius". The AI obviously values nothing but how many total points of weaponry that I've loaded onto the hull. Whether it can actually stray from my planets, how many hit points it has, and how abysmally slow it is do not matter. A human player would laugh at such a design. However, the AI treats me like I just discovered some ancient Precursor battleship. The AI routines were designed sloppily and quickly, with no real thought to strategy or tactics.

5) The tech victory is supposed to be difficult. I've found it to be anything but. Apparently, I'm supposed to fortify myself in my corner of the galaxy, hope that nobody will declare war on me, and then research at maximum for a few dozen turns. Well, for me, what happens is that I simply press enter many, many more times than seems fun. Nothing else happens, really. No wars, no threats from AI players who sense my sharp emphasis on tech (and, as a consequence, my meager social engineering and military production), no consortiums hastily founded, in order to retard my staggering research -- nothing! Just a boring gameplay experience where I'm holding down enter for fifteen minutes.

6) Why don't the other players ever try to win a political victory? I mean, all you really need to do is donate a dozen old techs to someone, and you're now his best friend. I've gotten political victories within a few dozen turns. I was actually hoping to get a crazy score out of that, given that I won so quickly. However, my score was disappointingly small, driving me to find other ways to win the game at a delayed pace. Since then, my scores have increased, but I'm still having some trouble breaking the top 25, seeing as how I'm too lazy to get a conquest victory.

7) Does the AI ever make alliances? I'm not sure it does. Usually, when I declare war on someone, I can do so with impudence. When the AI players declare war on me, they end up facing the rest of the galaxy. Not smart. They should consider whether they really want to fight a war on six or seven different fronts, before they pick a fight with a diplomat.

I think that's probably enough for now. Maybe after I take some notes, I'll be able to compose a longer message. Seriously, for someone who's bipolar and has lots of time on his hands, this is a short essay.
Reply #34 Top
WOW rendorax, you really showed some probs with the AI.
Reply #35 Top
First thing... what version do you play? is it the latest v1.2?

2) I've played Civilization 2,3 and 4 before. I turned to GalCiv II because it is less buggy and win-able without calculating too much (this is just a game! why stress you brain?)

3) Play the campaign! If you can win the mission 'Apolypase' at normal level (v1.2) with ease, then I think nothing in this game can challenge you!

4) Also, you may disable all of your special abilities!(e.g. social production, research rate, luck, etc.)
Reply #36 Top
Personally i agree with Rendorax -- i was expecting to see much tougher AI than what i've seen. Unprotected troop transports, unprotected starbases, unprotected freighters and they declare war on you. Just put 1 weapon on a cargo hull, max out engines -- and tool around taking out their stuff. And the AI never does that, so no need to protect anything inside of your borders.

Haven't seen the AI doing extra mining of the resource starbases either -- they just take the 5% bonus rather than building up to the 44% bonus.

I expected i would have to work on my stragey and try different race abilities to win at suicidal level if it were even possible. I was able to win my first game at suicidal level after playing 1 tough game and 1 painful game. I did practice my opening strategy and did practice play to get some basic data on how the game functions but still. Then i won a game at suicidal without any tile bonus's on my homeworld. Now I'm playing a game with fantastic tile bonus's and some even better race ability picks -- just to see how fast i can win.

To me, they should have a level where you have to be lucky to win even if you have everything in your favor. Right now i think I could win 8-10 out of ten games playing the 1st map generated on Suicidal, gigantic map, 9 opponents, regular research rate, tech trading on, and middle of the line galaxy options. Of course i would be able to use a custom race of my choice. BTW, i've improved my first 10 move strategy by 5 moves over what i used in the game i won with no tile bonus's.

For me the challenge to develop and refine a strategy that'll work at tougher and tougher game difficulty levels is a lot of the attractiveness of these types of games.

The good news is this game is a work in progress so I'm sure they'll gradually get the AI smarter.
Reply #37 Top
As frogman mentioned already gigantic maps play very differently from smaller maps like medium. You might try suidical with medium maps, the AI is way more agressive, and the human player gets less resources to exploit.

A lot of people saying the game is too easy seem to be playing solely with gigantic maps I notice.
Reply #38 Top
@Richrf

Spot on.
Reply #39 Top
I have only played gigantic maps and agree it would probably be harder if there are less sectors and worlds per player. Still was expecting a lot more from the AI with all the hub bub about the game. I do realize that the game is awfully complex for the developers to have anticipated all the strategies that might be developed but still think the AI can do a lot better. Would probably be neat if we could mod our own AIs for the game.
Reply #40 Top
I agree; medium and smaller maps are probably more difficult -- initially. In most of my games (not by design), I have no tile bonuses on my home planet, no resources to mine, and few planets available to colonize. The AI is good at colonizing and grabbing resources. However, the AI is also crap at war, so I end up with a majority of the resources and high quality planets, by the midpoint of the game.

In one recent game (that crashed to the desktop, unfortunately), I was playing a great game as the Yor. I colonized many planets in the initial rush, I was leading in military technology, and I was constantly staying ahead in military strength. I made alliances with the Drengin and Korx, then got thrown into a Korx/Torian war and a Drengin/Iconian war. I was thinking that maybe I'd be spread a little too thin to easily walk all over the powerful Torians and respectable Iconians. Still, I wasn't worried. Just concerned, you understand. Being in such close proximity with the Good races does cause some tactical concern, but, overall, I think that -- if I reload the old autosave -- I will come out on top of the heap again. Being Evil is more difficult than being Good, in many cases, but I sort of prefer being the goody-two-shoes Altarians and Torians, saving the universe from the Drengin.

That leads me to another aspect of the game that I'd like to discuss: alignments. Does anyone else choose all the Evil choices, then buy himself redemption for a pittance? I do that quite often when presented with tempting bonuses. It seems to be a little... cheap. I try to stay in character with my race's alignment (most of the time), but there's no way I can pass up a 50% planet quality bonus. Who could?

I just think that the costs to change your alignment are off by an order of magnitude. I was thinking of modding my game to make them prohibitively expense, so that I couldn't cheese out of being pond scum so easily. Unfortunately, I think that means that I'd have to forgo posting my meager scores to the Multiverse. Oh well!
Reply #41 Top
That leads me to another aspect of the game that I'd like to discuss: alignments. Does anyone else choose all the Evil choices, then buy himself redemption for a pittance? I do that quite often when presented with tempting bonuses. It seems to be a little... cheap. I try to stay in character with my race's alignment (most of the time), but there's no way I can pass up a 50% planet quality bonus. Who could?


I find myself doing that all to often. And I agree with you that the price is far to low. I wil do it even if my funds are to low to cover it - a few turns of no production to get back out of the hole is a very small price (unless I am in the middle of a close war, which is rare).
Reply #42 Top
Try playing on the highest difficulty setting. Tech trading off makes it tougher.
Reply #43 Top
Easy is so subjective. Easy on the beginner level? If all you want to do is lose I am sure the developers can make a level where the AI gets 20,000% production and tech bonus. Will that then make you happy because you can't beat the AI?

What I enjoy about GalCiv is that in the more difficult levels I need to do a lot of different things to win and not just build more ships faster and run over everyone. I attack on all facets possible to give me the edge. In saying that I would like to see one level above "Suicidal" called "Impossible" for those that enjoy playing the largest map and don't want to play a smaller map to get more competition.
Reply #44 Top
I have only played gigantic maps and agree it would probably be harder if there are less sectors and worlds per player. Still was expecting a lot more from the AI with all the hub bub about the game. I do realize that the game is awfully complex for the developers to have anticipated all the strategies that might be developed but still think the AI can do a lot better. Would probably be neat if we could mod our own AIs for the game.

Not sure it it would help. Don't forget the problem is not building an AI to fight a battle but to plan a war. And in that case, gigantic galaxies means more variables and delays when sending ships.

And I think that the AI doesn't do a good job with transports: I have never seen it building and stacking transports when it is at peace. Often, no farming improvement are build on its planets while people are very important to get money and troops for invasion.

I have also seen that the AI tends to destroy ships in orbit and wait a few turns that its transports invade the planet. And during that wait, fleet stay near the undefended planet to kill any ships that may be build. Not sure if it is really efficient. Not to mention that the defender AI will surely use a scorched Earth tactic, reducing the manufacturing power of the planet.

I am also wondering about the kind of invasion tactic the AI use when invading: destroying improvements or reducing planets quality won't help to use the conquered planet for supporting your war.