Brand New Game DOES NOT REGISTER

I'm having the same problem. Picked up the game from Fry's Electronics in Tempe, AZ today and after installing it (box and CD's were sealed) I can't register. I've sent an e-mail to Stardock support but it's a holiday weekend, which likely means I'm SOL until next week. Dammit.

I also have this problem. Sealed box, registration claims registration number is allready registered to another e-mail address. Customer support claims another account has this serial number.

Looks like stardock has had a security breach or a database meltdown.

For those in this situation who have not already done so, please send your serial in an email to [email protected] so that it can be looked up. That is the only way to tell for sure whether or not a serial has been previously used to register a game.

Please be aware that Fry's is perfectly happy to re-seal boxes that have been returned to them, and they have no way to tell whether or not the serial has been used. Just because it looks all shiny and new does not mean that this is in fact the case. Try asking them whether or not they can guarantee that anyone else has ever seen the inside of that box, and watch their eyes . . . and then demand an actual new box.

I allready did send this issue to support. The only reply I have gotten so far is a rather unproductive suggestion to buy a new license or use an unpatched (and unpatchable) version of the game (both unacceptable solutions).

I did not buy the game at fry's or any other US shop. It was bought in norway where we are pretty strict on trying to sell used merchandise as new.

I'm not sure what else I can suggest. Serials do not get linked with an email address until they are used. They can only be used when someone opens up the box, reads the serial number, and enters it into one of our online registration forms. If the serial is already registered, it means someone else has done the above before you. That person is the legal owner of the game's license.

If Norway is as strict as you say on used merchandise, then it should not be a problem to go back to the store and demand a copy that has not been sold and used beforehand.

I am quite certan that they will just point the finger back at you and claim that it is your system that is at fault. And frankly I find it much more likely that the serial numbers got compromised at the production site or through your systems, rather than that a store should invest in the equipment to reseal game packaging so they can resell a used game as if it was new.

But if none is willing to remedy the situation I guess I will eventually need to seek regress through the credit card company, though I am very disappointed by the unwillingness to resolve the situation when I can prove I have the actual physical media and have legally bought it.

And I will remind you that it does not say anywhere on the package that the license does not follow the media (which is the established practice for games and thus what the customer expects), and that the game cannot be resold (which other games can).

I agree that it is unfortunate. However, from our point of view, the net result is that two people end up having copies of the game, but we only get paid for one (or, since it is a retail copy of the game published by Paradox in Europe, a really tiny fraction of one which was probably eaten up by the time it took me to write this message).

The ultimate solution is likely to be that we will simply avoid doing CD releases for as many games as possible and just sell them online. We are selling licenses to games. The fact that those games and the serials currently have to be distributed by stores on physical media is an inconvenience that both we and our customers could do without. It creates many needless problems.

The packaging should say that. We will have to talk to Paradox about that.

While it would be unfortunate if indeed there are two users of the same license code. From my point of view, I paid for the game, but must jump through hoops to get it to work, while whoever is using it without a license (if any), has no problems with it.

Selling online and through brick and mortar stores will generally be problematic since you generally will use a distributor whose intrest is not best served by online sales. Hence conflict will arise. Like the conflict that will happen when I must return this to the store and try and force the store to take a loss indirectly due to the fact that this game is sold at a competing venue (online), with the licensing rules that entails.

Obvious actions would be to:
Only sell online.

OR

Make an agreement with retailers that they must accept returns

AND

Use a grace period before activation becomes mandatory such that any license key issues can be resolved without unduly inconveniencing the user (by denying access to the software)

Since none of these actions were taken and that the situation must have been foreseeable I submit that you do bear a responibility to expedite resolution of these incidents. F.ex by issuing a new license code upon displaying proof of ownership. (You can then optionally choose to pursue the shop if you believe they are to blame) The end result would be the same (As a new physical copy doesn't constitute anything other than than a new license code anyway), but with much less hassle for me as a legal end customer.

As mentioned above, only selling online is the ideal approach, although I have to admit that it is not one we are likely to achieve in the short term.

Speaking as a developer, not as a sales expert or support guy (which I'm not), I'd have thought our agreement would be more likely to be that they must not accept returns, because they could never guarantee that the software had not been used. Once a user has been sold a box with a serial in, that should be it. Either that or we would have to setup some kind of "unused serial verification" system, or a method for authorized retailers to de-register serials (I can see all sorts of bad possibilities there . . .)

There is a grace period - and quite a liberal one. You have the game. You can play it just fine - and even get a patch level that both fixes problems and adds features. You just can't play the very latest updated version until you have a valid, unused serial. Our policy has always been that the initial purchaser of the game is the owner, because they are the one who "signs the contract" by using the serial, and that if a retailer mistakenly accepts a return, then they have to fix it. That is part of the cut that the get (and it's a big one). If this is a problem, I would suggest that you contact the official gripeline, which is read by management.

Frankly I'd prefer the solution to be to give you the email of the person who originally registered the serial and then let you go from there as you wish, but I suspect that gets into privacy of information implications.

F.ex by issuing a new license code upon displaying proof of ownership.

That leaves open an avenue for exploitation--you could simply pass your boxed game along to all your friends, who can take a picture of it for themselves and claim the same problem, then get serials for the game without ever having paid a cent.

Resales of the serial codes are prohibited for similar reasons (we do not transfer serials between accounts, as this could be used by a malicious user to steal the game from another, among other problems). Giving out new serials to anyone who can produce a photo of the discs would just make the potential problems worse.

Our general policy is to assume people are telling the truth.  But since you bought it in Norway, this is really a Paradox issue.  Stardock is only the developer of the game. This is really a matter for Paradox to resolve.

BTW, the Paradox forum about GC2 is here : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=304

When something like this pops up, why can't the old serial be revoked and a new one issued?

Just require the new customer to fax / mail a copy of their receipt.

Problem solved?

Greenreaper: The reseller must indeed accept returns when presented with evidence that the serial in the box failed. (The registration failed e-mail from your systems should suffice, this can be verified so fraud should not be an issue). As of now game retailers generally do NOT accept returns (though legally they have to when the product is not suitable for the purposes it was bought as it is in this case. Realize however that for the customer this is a hard fight to fight.)

Disallowing patches during the grace period is no solution as a lot of us will insist on using the latest patchlevel as a policy (security reasons). If you claim the later patches only add features (no fixes) then there can certanly be confusion, though I am at a loss why this would be called a patch rather than a add-in.

Kryo: It would not open you to any significant risk of fraud as proof of ownership is the receipt/invoice rather than the disc (Though the disc should be presented as a proof of serial number identity) If the same serial number is claimed by multiple people, then they either have the same receipt or an error/fraud has occured in printing. The most likely location for serial number compromise is in my eyes at the printer, or transactions between the printer and IP owner. (This is where serial numbers can be obtained en-masse) Such that there will likely be one user with a stolen serial without any discs or receipts, and one with the disc and receipts. If you should get multiple requests on a single serial it would be easy (and prudent) to start an investigation.

Frogboy: From my point of view and, I have no customer relationship with paradox. I bought the game from a store, then it turned out that I needed to get the actual license from you. I don't see how finger-pointing helps resolve the matter. If you have bookeeping issues in dealing with serial numbers sold through distributors then I suggest you resolve those internally. You have taken it upon yourselves to validate my legally bought license (and make no mistake, I do own a license. (Unless you can claim the reseller is not authorised to sell licenses, which I doubt)), you have not held up your part of the contract (And this is your issue, paradox do not to my knowledge validate your serial numbers).

It seems to me that you have surrounded this product by some legal artifice that very one-sidedly enforces your rights as an IP owner, while totaly disregards and seemingly tries to undermine our rights as licensees. Any fair contract shall strive to balance the rights and obligations of BOTH parties. Right now the only thing coming from stardock is a bunch of finger-pointing, which I find particularly unimpressive.

I am sorry, but we are finger pointing because Paradox are the ones who are paid to support you, through the direct revenue that they get from sales of the game. They get their slice in part because it is their job to deal with problems in their area of distribution. Paradox are the ones who have relationships with the stores there, and if anyone can investigate a problem with reusing boxes, then it is them. It is not in any way easy or prudent for us to talk to a store halfway across the world which we have no relationship with and which doesn't know who we are, about a single box of a game.

If you had bought directly from us it would be a different matter, as we have more control over the billing and serial allocation. Similarly, for American distribution, we are the publisher and can talk to our distributors. In Europe, though, once we deliver the gold master and the list of serials, it is up to Paradox as publisher to ensure that you have a satisfactory experience. That is what a publisher does.

We have undertaken to them to provide software updates and technical support to the first person who registers that serial. That is the extent of our responsibility. You may be able to get an additional serial from Paradox, and they can then try and recover the costs from the retailer involved. That is their responsibility, which is why we are telling you to talk to them.

The license for an individual serial is not transferable; check the EULA.txt file - indeed, check the licensing agreement for just about any software product, game or otherwise. It is not possible for you to legally own a copy of a game with a serial that was previously registered by another person. It was never possible to for the original owner to transfer it in the first place, unless they had written permission from us to do so, in which case their account would have been delinked from that serial number. Game stores like to ignore that fact because it is bad for them to have to say "sorry, you cannot return this game because you used it", but those are the conditions under which the software was originally licensed.

We do not call our patches patches precisely because that is not what they are - they are updates, which may include both features and bug fixes, but tend to include more of the former and less of the latter as time goes on. I'm sure there are a few bugs fixed in 1.2 that are not fixed in 1.0X. However, I'm not sure where you're going with the security concern, as the only net contact that happens is an outgoing web connection to Stardock to transfer game results for the metaverse.

Uberturkey: We than have to deal with the people who make up receipts, and the old user email addresses that are no longer reachable (but then we get complaints a month later that "my updates stopped working"). Licenses are not transferable precisely because it is a hassle that is not worth our time to solve. If it were a $500 software product, maybe. It is not. I suspect I pay more for my lunch than than we get from a European sales, and I'm not a big eater, nor is food expensive here.

OK so paradox is paid by you to support me. Who in Paradox are authorized to give me a working serial number? (I think we have established that this is the only viable solution)

The EULA as you state is on the CD. I.e. not on the box where it can be read BEFORE comitting to a purchase. For taht to be even remotely valid, the least you must insure is that a mechanism exist to refund my money if I should not happen to agree with the EULA. This would mean that at minimum should exist documentation inside the box for how to initiate such a process as weell as a written and binding guarantee that I shall not suffer any loss for refusing to accept a secret license. I checked the box again and no such documents exist. Thus you have given me no leverage agains the retailer which could be used to resolve the issue (though at the expense of my time and effort to return to the store)

Regarding updfates. Grated then this would constitute a grace period, so you do have that part covered. It still remains that you must have a process to resolve issues in a timely manner.

Frankly what you make from the sale is not an issue, if you make so little that it isn't worth your while, dont sell it. Once it is sold a contract has been entered with the customer, and since you involve yourselves in issuing the fully featured license you are party to that contract and must have some responsibility to fulfill it.

Uberturkey: That could get them into trouble as well (Though it is no different than denying the fully featured product from a legal licensee in the first place which this debate is about)

The sorry fact is that unless you are willing to enter into a induvidual contract with each buyer there are no good ways to prevent some unlicensed users. (And even then it is almost impossible). This is essentially a cost of doing buisness.

My gripe is with companies who in their efforts to limit such practices are willing to victimice their paying customers. Pirates will propably not have any problems getting hold of cracked updates, so they will actually get a fully functional products, while those of us who want to have a legal license end up getting the short end of the stick. This is actually the real consequence of stardocks policy. (What pirate would bother faking a CD and receipt, when they can just download the whole thing of the net, updates and all)

We are party to the original sale and responsible to the original customer. As far as we are concerned, they still own the game. The appropriate solution seems to be to go to the people you actually bought it from - the store - and complain that they sold you a game with a serial that came up as previously used and which you could not therefore use yourself.

If they refuse to replace or refund your purchase, I would suggest that you ask them to give you that refusal in writing and contact [email protected] with that information. There is also a mailing address if you prefer that. If you contact them before trying at your store it is likely that they will just suggest exactly the same thing, because the store is the entity that actually sold the game as new when it was not. You could also try contacting a higher authority in that store's management, if it is a part of a chain of stores.

The EULA is displayed as part of the install process. If a customer does not agree with it, they are free not to install the game, and to return the item to the store unused (if not unopened). The license has not been executed at that point. The license is only executed once someone has installed the game (practically speaking, once they have registered it with us).

In this case, the license has been executed - just not by you. The person who returned it to the store was not correct to do so. Once executed, the license is not legally transferable (which is enforced by the inability to re-register with that serial), so the store also acted incorrectly in accepting the goods and re-selling them, as they are worthless to anyone without a valid unexecuted license.

As mentioned before, the hassle to everyone and lack of significant profit from such offline sales cause is why we do try to avoid doing so at all when it's not worth our while, and one reason why Dark Avatar will be an online-only release. That way all the serials come directly from us, and there is no possibility of a serial being returned and used again.

Frogboy: From my point of view and, I have no customer relationship with paradox. I bought the game from a store, then it turned out that I needed to get the actual license from you. I don't see how finger-pointing helps resolve the matter. If you have bookeeping issues in dealing with serial numbers sold through distributors then I suggest you resolve those internally. You have taken it upon yourselves to validate my legally bought license (and make no mistake, I do own a license. (Unless you can claim the reseller is not authorised to sell licenses, which I doubt)), you have not held up your part of the contract (And this is your issue, paradox do not to my knowledge validate your serial numbers).

I'm just pointing out the fact - in Europe, Paradox is the publisher. We are not involved at any level with the manufacturing, distribution or selling of the game in Norway. We *developed* the game. We provide updates to the game that require the serial # that Paradox put in the box and sent to Norway.  I am not sure what you expect Stardock to do. Stardock is not invovled in any part of the "contract" you speak of. 

To use an analogy, if you buy a book and the cover on the book is ripped, it is not up to the author of the book to make good on that. The party responsible would be first the store and if that fails, the publisher of the book.   There is no connection between you and us other than us providing the free service to obtain updates to the game which requires a valid serial # that was provided in the box by Paradox. 

My suggestion to you would be to return the game and ask for a refund. That is what I would do in your situation. Failing that, contact Paradox (whose contact info should be in the box) and ask them to make good.

I hope that Paradox hasn't used old serial ids when manufacturing new boxes ...

To my knowledge the problem they had was just in the first run where they didn't realize that the content serials were just for content. There was another problem where our own manufacturing partner mixed up the serial files and content serials were used for both content and the CD, but I believe that only affected our area of distribution (and it's one we've been fixing - I've handled a few cases on IRC myself). These things happen, but we know when they happen and can deal with them.

I am also having the same problem. I try to activate and it tells me there is a problem with my serial number. It also says that the serial is supposed to be 28 characters long, but the one printed on my CD is 29 characters. Maybe if you are having this problem you should count characters too, or maybe the error message is in error. Either way someone screwed these things up.

PS> Ive been reading this thread and I noticed that my CD's serial number is printed on the outside of the jewelcase in a clear cellophane wrapper. The jewelcase is inside a box which is sealed only with a clear round sticker. Anyone could open it and read the serial with no trouble and no damage. Thats why other companies print their serials on places which cant be seen without unwrapping an entire package, like the inside of the cd case. Also most stores (like the Best Buy I bought mine at) have a policy where you can return a game if the cd case is unopened because that is the only truly sealed container in the package (the round sticker can be opened and closed). Long story short... there is a security failure in the packaging of this game that allows persons to steal serial numbers off the game without leaving any evidence of the theft.

Has anyone had a satisfactory response to this issue?

I recently bought a copy of Gal Civ 2 at Game in the UK and attempted to register it. Can't. Support claim that the CD key is already registered. However the key is printed on the CD, which in turn was inside the sealed, cellophane wrapped case and thus could not be read before it was opened.

Looking at previous posts, I don't hold out much hope of resolving this as it appears previous complaints have degenerated into a finger pointing exercise!

Pretty much all I can suggest is go back to the retailer and tell them that they rewrapped a game that they accepted returned, and that it is now not usable by you, so please give the money back as you can't use all features of the game. If they accept returns of the game without an assurance that the user has contacted Stardock to free the serial up, then it should be their problem, not yours.

If they do not give you your money back or offer an exchange for a fresh game, ask them for a written statement that they will not do that, and send it to Paradox and see if they will give you a serial, or follow it up with the store.

Stardock has no contact with GAME in the UK, because we are not the publisher in the UK - Paradox is. They are the only ones with the ability to inform GAME that they are doing the wrong thing by accepting returns and re-wrapping the game.