Freighter Speed Limit?

I have the feeling this needs to be bumped to appear in recent posts... silly forum.

that's how it's meant to be. speed only matters for establishing the trade route. after that, every freighter moves at speed 1 parsec/turn.

and no, you don't need to bump. the server takes quite a while before your page appears.

I can't say I agree with limiting the speed. Why would such an artificial limit be placed on it?

If I create a freighter that moves 15p/turn, why can't it always travel that fast?

It just seems like the entire trade system is shrouded in mystery. The freighters don't act the way you make them. The amount of money you get from them is anyone's guess. They're practically sitting ducks, because escorting a freighter with a fleet for 30+ turns is a waste of a fleet.

You can see how much they make in your domestic policy trade screen. It's not the same freighter moving, they're smaller sub-freighters. They aren't sitting ducks if you have eyes of the universe, because then you can see the enemy coming from a long way away.

Galactic Privateer can protect them.
And they are sitting ducks if you can't get to the attacking ships in time, Eyes or no Eyes.

Unless you build freighters with weapons and defense and better hulls with some hit points.

As for speed, more speed would not make any difference once the route is established. The monthly income would remain the same. So it is not worth fretting over. The most important thing with speed is establishing the route as soon as possible to get the income all the sooner.

Marcathonas, the amount the domestic policy shows seems to change. So how can I trust how much I'm making? If they are 'subfreighters', why do they carry the same ship designation as the freighter I created, and why is there only 1 on each route? Clearly these are the exact freighters I built and sent out to these planets. So why can they not operate as built?

Is the 'Eyes of the Universe' a 1 per civ thing, or a 1 per game thing? If it's 1 per civ, I'd say fine. If it's 1 per game, well... you can see where problems might arise in using that as an excuse.

Excuse my reasoning if I am incorrect here, please. Wouldn't the 'monthly income' be directly tied to the speed of the ship? If it takes the ship 1 month to travel to and from a planet, and it gives you 10bc for that month, wouldn't it stand to reason that a ship that can go back and forth twice a month would make more than a ship that can travel only once?

All I can say is that the best defense I can think of for a freighter is to outrun the enemy. If I can travel faster than their warships can, I should be allowed to. Handcuffing me is silly.

Eyes of the Universe is one per game type deal.

Check out some of the other civ's freighter builds, some of them throw armor and weapons on them. Personally I keep mine simple to keep the upkeep on the frieghters down.

Is the 'Eyes of the Universe' a 1 per civ thing, or a 1 per game thing? If it's 1 per civ, I'd say fine. If it's 1 per game, well... you can see where problems might arise in using that as an excuse.

This is a Galactic Wonder, one in a galaxy, there are two possibilites I don't exactly know if The Galactic Guide book puts Survey Modules on Mini-Frieghters though

Excuse my reasoning if I am incorrect here, please. Wouldn't the 'monthly income' be directly tied to the speed of the ship? If it takes the ship 1 month to travel to and from a planet, and it gives you 10bc for that month, wouldn't it stand to reason that a ship that can go back and forth twice a month would make more than a ship that can travel only once?

the trade is made based on distance and elapsed time traveled over that distance, along with any bonuses that starbases give the route; not really what you are saying is that with a shorter route you will get the same ammount as a longer route when the income is based on the distance from the home planet. if the destination planet was only 2 squares away the income would be only 2bc or 3bc instead if it was 50 squares away you would get 20bc - 30bc based on your trade ability.

I can see the trade being based on the distance travelled, but the time it takes to travel? That's absurd. That would be like UPS charging more for 10 day shipping than they do for 3 day shipping. The time travelled should not be a factor in trade, because then the game has to impose an artificial speed limit.

I see you answered your own question

The time travelled should not be a factor in trade, because then the game has to impose an artificial speed limit.

this is exactly what is happening.

Well, I simply responded to the answer given, I didn't really answer it myself

Either way, in my opinion, it's a flaw in the game, whether intentional or not.


No freighter captain would say to himself 'Hey, what do you say we cut the engine power to 1/15th and take our sweet time. Sure, we risk being blown out of the sky by the enemies, but our cargo will be worth more that way.' ?

They wouldn't. They'd want to get there and back as quick as possible, and be in any given sector for as short as time as possible.

You get per-turn trade income from each trade route regardless of where it is. It makes more money the closer it is to the destination planet and less money the closer it is to the planet of origin - they average out to the value you see when you first make the trade route. Because of this averaging effect, it doesn't matter what the speed of the freighter is, because the average income would always be the same (well, it might affect gameplay if the freighter has a really fast speed and is able to, at least temporarily, outrun enemy ships as it travels along the trade route, but the enemy would just have to remain in place and destroy the freighter as it came back). Just think of the freighter as an avatar of the trade route and not an independent freighter in itself and everything becomes much clearer

Also - whatever stats your trade ship had when you first sent it to its destination planet, even if it was a battleship with a trade module stuck onto it as an afterthought, it loses all of its speed, attack, defense, and hull strength when it becomes a mini-freighter.

As for protecting your trade routes, the only realistic options are to:

1.) Get Galactic Privateers (the best option, and you can get it before the AI if you try hard).

2.) Keep the trade routes away from your enemies - if you must run it through enemy territory, then be prepared to lose it or suffer losses defending it. If possible, keep them away from the border planets of another country, as those are usually the first captured or converted in a military or cultural war.

3.) Build a rapid-response team to police some of the trade routes - put as many engines, sensors, and weapons as you can on a few frigates or cruisers, and patrol the trade routes, or at least keep an eye out for enemy ships. You should be able to stop lone gunmen from picking apart your trade routes, but if a major enemy fleet comes calling, you'll have to respond with your primary attack force.

4.) Use starbases and perimeter defenses to secure the area around your trade routes. Build starbases around the perimeter of your empire and along your trade routes every 10 parasecs or so. Max out their sensor capabilities, add speed modules like Stellar Wake to help your fleets respond faster, and deck out the starbases with trade modules and defenses to eke out the most from your trade routes and keep your starbases safe.

What is the better choice in a Trade Route?
1. Close friendly smaller class planet in same system or sector. (Short Route)
2. A friendly Home World that is three or more sectors away. (Long Distance Route)

What is the better choice to trade with?
1. Smaller Class then your planet.
2. Large Class then your planet.
3. Same Class as your planet.

The longer the distance, the better. The higher the population, the better. That's all you usually need to know.

Trade value increases with distance and planet quality. Link up two tiny planets near one another for negligible income. A route between two PQ 30+ worlds in opposite corners of the galaxy ... $$$.

Not a lot of people seem to know this, but you can have multiple mini-freighters on the same route. I have a nasty Huge game running where the Dark Snathi (my custom) Trade Consortium, headquartered on Weber IV (PQ 42), runs all the empire's trade to the Snathi (the minor race) homeworld. All 12(or13?) routes passing through hundreds of parsecs and the areas of effect of maybe a baker's dozen Trade Starbases. Taxes? Who needs Taxes?

Which brings up my other point: Try to pick routes that pass through multiple ecobases' AOEs.

Which brings to mind tonight's experiment: What if you set up a dozen or so freighters on a route inside one system spammed with ecobases? Selling Mars to the Yor!

I'll try to remember to post my results.

What is the better choice in a Trade Route?

1. If you just want to set up a trade route quickly for the immediate economic and diplomatic benefits, or don't have a lot of resources and time to set up and protect a longer route.
2. If you want better profits in the long-run.

Generally, I find it's better to do both, and replace the less profitable routes as the slots are filled

As for why the mini-freighters move at 1 square/turn, I think Shadow more or less nailed it. It'd be too hard for anyone (let alone the AI) to catch a moving freighter, if it didn't move at a snail's pace. The other problem with having freighters is, with the way profits are calculated (see the other thread on this subject), it would make it way more profitable for someone with better engines to send out freighters since they not only arrive at their destination more quickly, but the route also "matures" much faster. Trade modules for starbases will also have to be reworked to be of any use since it's likely a fast enough freighter will fly right past the starbase zone in a single turn.

Basically, just think of your original freighter as an envoy to make negotiations with your trading partner. The mini-freighter serves both as a visible representation of the trade route (instead of just having a number on a screen that steadily goes up like in MoO1) and as something that can be intercepted and destroyed during a war. Admittedly, it's a pretty ham-fisted way of doing things and the game does a terrible job of explaining things, but then, this seems to be recurring theme in GalCiv2.

Which brings to mind tonight's experiment: What if you set up a dozen or so freighters on a route inside one system spammed with ecobases? Selling Mars to the Yor!

Isn't there a limit on the # starbases you can build in one sector?

Well, I guess all I can say is it's another thing I don't like about this game. There's plenty of things I do like, and a few that annoy the crap out of me (such as this).

why even bother building a freighter or fleet of freighters and be limited to the number of trade routes like 3 routes when you can accept traders from other civs.

The last 5 games I've played I've had at least 2 freighters from each civ come to my planets and start routes. When I build a Freighter I position it next to the AI's largest planet so that when I have say six of them I can upgrade them to be able to handle any ship that planet has orbiting it. ( coupled with a nice convoy of Constructors to land on them and build up a quick Military base in their sector.

You take 20 to 30 constructors and practically no fleet sent to it will survive. It also gives you the advantage of diverting what ships they have from coming to your planets and instead they attack that starbase point instead. This leaves your planets basically free from invasion. Which in turn keeps your research and productions going full tilt.

The AI on the other hand now has to spend more and more on production costs thus slowing down their research more. In the meantime your sending out another set of 20-30 odd constructors with another fleet to yet another of their planets. Let that fleet just sit their on the next miltary base you build to help defend it.

Build up your invasion tech and planet defense tech to the max so you have the best soldiering skill out there and invade away.
I prefer to put 3 sets of fleets on a Starbase for Defense. Even if you lose 1.5 of the fleets there you've already built replacements and send them in.