Game is Buggy

Yes it is

from GalCiv2 Forums
I know the developers don't like hearing this but this game is buggy. The sliders for setting military production,
social production, and resaerch are buggy as can be. -- Can you use em?, yes. but still for the one of the most basic
things a micromanager is going to be adjusting, thet shoulkd be smooth -- and such an easy and small routine to
program. Or is this another deliberate thing to discourage micromanaging.
The extra round of ship moves with save/load is buggy. And if it is deliberate...............................
The loading of saved games is buggy --- I can no longer even load a saved game. I deleted all my ship designs in
the folder inside of my documents area and that didn't help. Double checked my video card drivers to make sure they
are the most recent. I changed the game graphic settings to the same as my desktop and that didn't help. And what is up with that anyways? -- should be in manual with installing game instructions if it is really necessary -- not buried in some forums.
So I have yet to get past the expansion phase of a game to even learn how the combat works.
I have seen the reasearch costs of a tech fluctuate greatly in the same game -- like somewhere around 600 TP
cost when first available and then down under 200 TP cost a bit latter after i've gotten a few other techs. Don't know
if it is deliberate to keep someone from just researching straight down one tech line -- haven't been able to play a
game long enough or reload game to track it down.
This isn't a bug but where is a good civlopedia of things in the game. Techs,weapons,armor,shields,buildings,etc ---
giving their costs and specifications. This has been a feature of good turn based stragey games for like almost 10 years now.
Also, this isn't a bug -- but from what i've played, i'm not sure the game is even close to play balanced. Looks like
the developers have created a game with features they want in it and then coded it without finding out if the basic
concepts are balanced.
The explanation of spending in the game is buggy. the spending is related to both production costs and
research costs. And why the developers decided that production and research had to be tied together, i have no
idea. Production spending should be independent of research spending. The fact that they both cost money
will keep it in check. I know , you are saying i don't understand and misread manual. No I did not,
you clearly state that if spending is at 100%, then the spending costs will be equal to the factory proctuction.
It is not -- if total factory production is 100 MP and total research proction is 50 TP; and social production +
military proction = 50% and technology production =50% then total spending will be 100 x .5 + 50 x .5 = 75.
keeping it simple and not introducing all the adjustments. Such a basic concept to the game and your
explanation in the game manual is misleading at best ( purely wrong as far as i'm concerned ).
Also do not like the fact that you have to pay for production that you are not using. For instance, you get high
production on your home planet and build it up. Then you expand, then you go into a phase of building up your colonies,
but don't need to build anything on your home planet -- those social production costs still come out even though you
aren't building anything there. It's a real problem if you've gotten some good production tiles --- Read posts where
players are saying don't use em cause they'll ruin your economy.
Guess i could go on and on but it is pretty obvious how i feel ( yes there is a lot more ).
Bottom line -- the game is buggy. Also the play balancing of game features is probably quite weak -- but i cann't
get enough game stability to really check it out.
Lots of nice features in the game and might even be fun to play if i could load a saved game. ( in spite of how I
feel about a lot of the game ). I'll check back and try the game off and on after patches.
BTW, i personally take offence from the devlopers taking offence at players who find the game buggy. You got
blinders on? Just the funky sliders for setting production %s -- sure we can work around it -- but heh if you cann't
handle a simple subroutine like that!!!
Oh yeah, last game i played locked up my computer on the new technology screen. Had autosave on for each
turn but of course after rebooting my comp, the game couldn't load the saved game. Had just gotten to the end
of the expansion phase of the game too. That's as far as i've ever been able to get. Have never even had a battle
yet to see what it is like. And no, I'm not going to invest a lot of time into figuring out how to get the game to work for me.
I payed my $40 for the game, guess my expectation is a little too high, not much demand for these types of games,
so the best we can expect is someone who does it for the passion and fun in their offtime. But in this case, they came up
short for me.
I would hope the developers would take this as valid critism and take a good look at the game. They could change this
game into something really special. However from what i've read in their posts, they seem quite content with the direction they are heading. Well wasted enough time writing this and trying to play this game -- think i'll play a game of Alpha Centauri
and have some fun.
19,418 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Also do not like the fact that you have to pay for production that you are not using. For instance, you get high
production on your home planet and build it up. Then you expand, then you go into a phase of building up your colonies,
but don't need to build anything on your home planet -- those social production costs still come out even though you
aren't building anything there.
Wrong. Unused social production gets funnelled into military production, which if you are not building anything costs nothing.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top


If I was a developer I'd despair at posts like this. Please separate bugs from game mechanics. You may not like the game's rules but these are not bugs. That you don't want sliders for spliting production is not a bug it is meant to be exactly like that. The save game problems you've had could be bugs. You've probably got old video drivers (most save game issues seem to be related to that). By your own admission you've not even played a single game yet you want to come on here and torch the game. You talk about balance and then give no examples. I've played the game lots of different ways and the balance is one of the games strengths. Yes there are good options and bad options... Surely that is what makes a strategy game worth playing.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It is kind of cute that he calls the production sliders bugs. They work as advertised, they don't crash the game... they're not a bug. Is it just me or does the whole post boil down to 'make it simpler, because I don't like how it is now. It's a bug because I don't like it'?
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
So you don't like how the game works. End of the world! (Or should I say galaxy? )

Every game takes getting used to. I still take a couple minutes to remember the difference between GC and CTP2 and Master of Magic when I switch between them, even though I've played all three very extensively. You are never going to find a game that has a UI tailored to you, at best you will be able to do a little cutsomization yourself, such as changing what keys do what. All games are like this, you have to adapt to the details of the UI, at least until someone comes up with a completely customizable UI (Everquest comes close with its XML UI skins).
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
posts with that many obvious complaints should be ignored.... why???? because 5 year olds shouldn't be allowed on the net.



I got a headache just trying to make sense of all of that drivel.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You're a whiner, and beyond that, you're not a very detailed whiner, consider resposting with clearer, specific, detailed examples of what you call bugs. If all you got is bitching cause you dont like how the game is setup, well it comes with an uninstaller, put it to good use and S T F U.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wrong. Unused social production gets funnelled into military production, which if you are not building anything costs nothing.


Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if he was still messing around on version 1.0...

And no, I'm not going to invest a lot of time into figuring out how to get the game to work for me.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While most of his post is so non-specific as to be meaningless, I can vouch for the inability to load saved games. That happened after several games in 1.11. I t seems to be fixed with 1.2 beta, but it may recur, as none of my emails or posts about it have been addressed, and I've seen several other posts as well. (and yes, my video drivers are up to date).


In any case, I really don't understand what he thinks is 'buggy' about the production sliders..? They work as advertised.

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Artagel
They had some big memory problems in 1.11. This caused crashes around saving especially on PC's with 1G or less with a relatively small page file.

I love the game but it is ever so memory hungry, my poor laptop still struggles with page swapping every now and again, however it no longer crashes. So maybe you are lucky.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Spacing is your friend, please learn how to space out paragraphs, there are writing courses that cover that.

On the sliders bug, I still haven't played under the newest versions so I can't state whether it is still there or not. What the OP is referring to is that the sliders don't properly represent what %age you have allocated to an area. It's really minor, trivial and once you get used to it, learn to work around it, but it is technically a bug.

BTW, out of that entire long post, the only bugs posted was sliders and save game. Everything else is on game mechanics or general whining. I have to agree with others that seperation of bugs and game mechanics comments should be done (for future reference) as it allows the developpers to see the bugs clearly, fix those and then work on the game mechanics posts (when necessary).
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually, I wouldn't be suprised if he was still messing around on version 1.0...


Sounds like it to me. Update to v1.11.

I have played over 20 games to completion and never had any problems loading a saved game. It did take ages to load before 1.1 but now loads in a fraction of a second!

I mircromanage the sliders from turn to turn (to the nearest 10%, need to I play on suicidal level) and have had no problems whatsoever. I like the way spending/production/research work its a effective and simple system.

If your playing alpha centauri I can not understand why u can not get into the game, as the UI for GC 2 is easier to use and the game runs far smoother
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If your playing alpha centauri I can not understand why u can not get into the game, as the UI for GC 2 is easier to use and the game runs far smoother


ovesly he like it simpler
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
look at his posts, see how some lines are slightly short? This may be his paragraphing! except the point of paragraphing is so you dont hurt your eyes, there pretty much useless oh and give a more detailed report than we may decide to help you
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yipes..... I see no bugs in that post that really weren't fixed in the latest 1.2.11 Beta.

maybe, if he played a game to conclusion, he might understand how the parts fit together.

On point that is valid, with all the new UI tweaks and numerous upgrades the 1.2 version is so diffrent than the original game that a lot of the tutorials, new player guide and manual stuff is obsolete or confusing.

Remember, old programming phrase " That's not a bug, its a feature!" Or "working as designed"

At least he did take time to write his comments out, and I am impressed on how civil everyone has been in reply.

Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well I've finally finsihed 3 games and must say this is quite a great game.
Love so much about it -- and lots of the features are great and very well done.
Played 1 tough game first and won pretty easily -- then tried a painful game and won even easier. Just finished playing a suicidal game and won but it
was riveting and a real good challenge. Of course i spent a lot of time between games evealuating my strategy so it did get better. I played
gigantic map and did regenerate maps till i got a homeworld with the
tile bonus's that i wanted for my strategy -- wanted to try my best game out and see if it was good enough to win -- and it was.
Now for why i believe the game is BUGGY. First of all, my last post was based on 1.1 update. With 1.1 update, I could not even load a saved game after a few days! With the fact the game crashes once in a while -- well i couldn't even play a game! My computer has more than enough memory, virtual memory, and
the latest vido drivers.
Well I'm playing 1.2 update now and had no problems loading saved games.
However the game did crash twice on me in my last game. And there is still
the extra round of ship moves with a save/load of the game -- so twice the integrity of the game was lost -- oh well -- with my strategy it is to my advantage. And I really hate not having a save/load feature that doesn't
ruin the integrity of the game. And i do not buy that it is a bug and not
deliberate -- just being honest. Really hate having to play ironman and spend
all that extra time to make sure i don't miss something. BUT I CAN DO THAT -- just don't like it.
The sliders for adjusting spending, miltary production, social production, and research are BUGGY! How can 1 not see that. The are usable but i would think something so integral to the game would be smooth and slick.

1: The percentage location of the individual sliders is often visually wrong. If 1 of the spending distribution sliders is set to 100%; You have to adjust 1 of the other sliders to change it ( workable, yes; slick --no )

2: Dragging the sliders is not smooth at all, often I have to move back and forth between sliders to get what i want.

3: Adjusting the sliders often has affects on production or research that is not right:::: Example ( got a game going right now ) I'm adjusting the research percantage
Research%-research cost
Clicking up Clicking down
10- 6 22
12- 7 20-15
14- 8 19-14
16-10 17-13
17-11 16-12
19-12 14-11
20-13 12-10
22-14 10- 8
This is mostly just noticeable early in the game -- but of course that is
where i started my research into the game. I believe there are also funky
things that happen with production too but think this is good enough to make my point.
I just always adjust research% up -- not a very slick interface. and personally
it makes me very suspicious of the algorithymes they are using.

Moving multiply fleets from the same tile location -- the game doesn't
stay targeted on the fleet you move and you have to reclick on the fleet
to get it targeted. This is necessarry to start a battle or invade a world.

Also, the auto pathing does not use the path with the least amount of moves.
So lots of moving tile by tile is necessary to maximize fleet movements. Really
hate ending up with 1 move too little because of pathing. I've played lots of games where i've never seen a waste of moves with pathing -- even games dating back to windows 3.1 era.

The cost of paying for tile improvement upgrades varies a lot. I've seen
costs chnage from like 600 to 3000 for the same upgrade from 1 world to the next. Even when it is like the 2nd turn in a row that i'm paying for upgrades.
I realize there might be some work that had been done to upgrade this already and that is why it is less -- but if so, it is not showing up on the sliders.
At any rate, there is definitely something that is funky here -- Another thing
that makes me wonder about algorithymes.

____________________________________________

Well





Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ooops, wasn't done, -- have no idea what i did -- but to continue

Well those are my reasons for saying the game is buggy. But there are many more little things i've seen while trying to figure out how the game works.
I understand this is 1 huge and complex game -- But these are some of the basic building blocks of the game.
But once again let me say -- i love so much else that i've seen in the game.
Things that are so much more complex and hard to program i would think. It is
very confusing to me really.

________________________________

Now onto gameplay mechanics

I understand that it is a nice gameplay feature to have to chose between
production and research. But it makes no sense in relation to the structure of the game. Money in is not related to spending. Spending is suppose to be based
on capacity. Production capacity and Research capacity are independent of one
another. Having said this -- i do like having to chose between production and research -- just wish it made sense.

Personally i looked into trade routes and found the pay off to be pretty small and do not even bother with it.

Same goes for constucting Economy starbases -- in my game at painful level I
constucted lots of em but towards the end of the game looked what their effect was and found it to be like at least 2 year to recoup costs of constuctors.
Didn't maake a 1 at suicidal level.

Having to make the latest and best of a tile improvement causes the game to
play a little weird to me. For instance: I do not research any factory, lab, or
market upgrades till I'm done with the expansion phase and have put them in
on all my worlds. So i colonize, then try to get 3 factory/world -- then i'll do research to get fdactory upgrades. I'll get my labs put in -- usually just the tiles with bonus's and the world that'll be my tech capital -- then go
for tech upgrades to labs. Also the same for markets ( and especially markets ), I'll put markets on all my tiles not for something else. Then do research on upgrades to markets. Same for farms and their upgrades. I also do
not do any espiange before i get all my basic stuff in, because if i steal a tech, it could be disaster ( like advanced markets -- cost of building em is
just too much early on ). Also, it is cheaper to upgrade from the basic
improvement to the top of the line than to do it incrementally. So i'll do my best to trade for techs and/or just research a whole tech tree to the end for
improvements. In my games tradng for techs worked well. To me this just makes the game play a little funky and think a lot of development here could make the game better and open up some more feasable strategies. Offhand, i think
if you had to build tile improvements from the basic to the top of the line in increments, like you have to build a market on a tile before you can upgrade it to an advanced market. Just an idea.

Having each line of tech research independent of the other is interesting --
probaly works good for the weapons/armor but not so sure i like it for the
other techs. Sort of like the tech costs going up as you get more techs, but
did have trouble figuring out just how it works -- and really just have a basic idea.

Really think it would be good to have a civlopedia on the main website with good detailed information on the game -- like basic tile improvement costs and tech research costs ( independent of extra costs because of other techs -- just
to have an idea of what a tech tree is going to cost). This would sure make it take a lot less time to come up with a strategy to play the game. I spent a lot of time gathering info on tech costs to come up with my strategy. Hate the
idea of having to do this with every update as you twek these costs -- my
guess is there will be substantial changes eventually.

On difficulty levels -- sort of funky i think offhand as the bonus's on your
homeworld tiles are probably very important to success -- more so than the difficulty level. But the difficulty levels are nice for setting the intelligence level of the comp players. Noticed that on painful level I didn't have to be worried about being attacked till around move 100. Then got surprised on Suicidal level when i was made war with at move 60 or so -- my big tactical mistake in my suiciadal game( thought i could keep trying to expand ). I was still able to win though.

__________________________________________________



I say all of this in the hope of it be constructive critism. I really do
like the overall structure of the game. And I really like that the developers
are continueing to develop the game ( a work in progress more or less ).
With the basic structure of the game set up -- a lot of fine tuning and
tweaking can really improve the game. I'm looking forward to looking into what I might be able to do with modding tha game ( if i was able to implement some of my thoughts with modding, then this is absolutely fantasic -- but i've never modded -- so ..).
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh just noticed i did n't address th unused proction cost issue --
Let me say that i believe how this is handled has changed from the retail to the 1.1 update to the 1.2 update. I'm not going to waste my time looking back at earlier versions but did notice that 1,2 update worked pretty wel and I
didn't spend any time looking into it ( never noticed anything that caused me
concern ). However i do believe i was probably right in my original post for the version i was playing at the time. But i could have been mistaken.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Kblore

Your recent comments are much more informed, relevant and constructive.

Many of the things you say are minor annoyances... but I think you agree the game as a whole is very good.

Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think one thing we all tend to forget when applying "constructive criticism" of this game that we love so much is that alot of features are the way they are because of the "fun factor".

The developers have done a pretty stand out job at turning a spreadsheet game into a *fun* game that appeals to a pretty wide audience...  In order to accomplish that some people are going to be turned off to how "simple" the game may appear on certain fronts.
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Good observation mavx21.

As Kblore grudgingly admits, the way the production/tech tradeoff works is actually good in game terms... just difficult to understand in "real" terms.

At the end of the day it is a game not a simulator.
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Some of these things make more sense as you play the game.

The production interaction is especially confusing, and a lot of players can't don't realize that you have to have some production allocated for the sliders to start trading off, and that bonus production needs at lest 1% allocated for you to have ship construction calculated.

The improvements in the game, and the months of patches and fixes have made 1.2 almost a new game and have made much of the manual obsolete. That IS confusing, especially to new players.

SO for some of us, who have seen literally hundreds of bug fixes and dozens of user interface improvements, and virtually all of our bug observations corrected by Stardock, over the past few months, we can get a little defensive of the Stardock staff, who have done an amazing, indeed world class, level of support to this game.

And what you described initially, were relatively minor things compared to what has already been fixed, and some of your observations really were preferences and not bugs.

But thank you for your input, and you can be assured that they were heard.

BTW, the game load a saved game, lose a production turn,free movement, BUG has beed fixed in version 1.3 according to Carielf from Stardock.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hey, all I know is I played the demo from a magazine & got hooked. Kids got me the Collector's Edition for Father's Day. F many days I was all like !@#$% because I kept bankrupting myself, but I kept at it and learned the nuances of the economy structure.

The first thing I do is...max-out the researching and kill the military & social spending. Reason being is I just purchase what I need out-right. Believe me, I tax like a democrat on steroids, but I only buy what I can afford, kinda like a conservative.

The only slider that I have any problems with is for Influence Points on the trade screen, way to sensitive, but I'll live.

All in all, this has been a good purchase with 3 crashes due to 'placement errors ' in all the time I have had it. Last time was 4hrs ago. I figure now that I know the developers actually read these boards I will post the next error dialogue box for some insight on what I need to do. Oddly enough those crashes did not take away the fun-factor, something about that 'auto-save' setting .
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Got a kick out of your tax like a democrat on steroids comment. One of the things i've consistently been able to do is have an 80% tax rate with 100% morale -- but kick the tax rate up to 81% and the morale drops down to 7%,lol.
Those morale resources must really have some great pacifying drugs on em!

The auto-save is nice but that extra round of ship moves really bugs me.In my younger years i would have returned the game and asked for my money back on principle alone.

What i can not believe is how the rest of you do not seem to have any issues with the military production percentage, social production percentage, and research percentage sliders. My issues with them are so numerous and obvious that I won't bother to go into details.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
but kick the tax rate up to 81% and the morale drops down to 7%


I've never really paid attention to my tax rate, once I get a decent population ( 90k or so ) I adjust the tax rate regularly to keep the moral at about 35% so that the population does not decrease. Sure once in a while I go to 100% to build up my bank & thin out the sheep, but I have noticed that if you get those fools used to high tax rates, they will be happy at a tax rate of 65%

Who needs a 'Democratic' society anyway? The associated bonuses just dont have any enticements that can lure me away from my dictatorship on the 'galactic throne.

Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yea, I'll be glad to see the dead turn on start-up issue resolved. Don't really have a problem with the sliders. The scale does shift sometimes, but it's not an issue for me. Otherwise, I have little problem with the game, runs pretty smooth all around. I've definitely seen worse. The high update frequency is great. The game isn't pefect and I do have a few gripes here and there, but overall, it's a pretty bang-up job on Stardock's part. Keep those updates coming