REMOVE ALL GAME CHEATS!!! [EDITED]

Plus, with so many game cheats avalible, you will cause modders that put out huge mods to get "its too easy" responses!! You promote a highly modable game, but as you have built in cheats, you not only undermind your work, but ours!! Sorry if this is a selfish opinion, but this is how I feel. It is the single worse feature of GalCiv2 IMHO.

Again, I mean no disrespect, I admire your commitment to this game, your dedication, and interactivity with us mere mortals, but cheat code screw not just us modders, but far more importanlt, it screws ALL YOUR HARD WORK!!!!! I cant say that more profoundly!!! Your killing your work (and to a far lesser extent, your modders that support you)

Ok, [RANT]done[/RANT]

ST

Brace up, man! Get a hold of yourself.
Consider it an excercise in self control.

Brace up, man! Get a hold of yourself. Consider it an excercise in self control.

lol sorry man

got a bit acrried away there, but cheats do destroy a game, and mods that are put out for it, I wanted to make a strong point for my case (perhaps got carroed away) but mabey not

ST

Well, some people just the cheats, and though I see your point, I don't think people should be limited based on how someone else feels, so how about a mutual agreement, coding for Mods to be disabled completely...of course anyone who knows how to mod can get by this, but still, if they want to go through the trouble of changing it, let them Possibly make it something that could be hidden into any of the .xml file anywhere throughout the file, that way they'd really have to work at it to get it removed....

Limited? How is not haveing cheats that undermind your game be limited? Remember, SD touts this as a highly moddible game, thats why Im here, but if any game, any level, any mod, any scenario can be beat with a CTRL+? whats the point? How is not haveing cheat codes that destroy all the hard work you put into a game be limiting?

I respect your opinion, I do, I respect everyone til they give me a reason not too, but at the same time, I respectfully dont agree with you.

ST

It limits a choice that has been given, thats how it limits. I'm sorry, call me anything you want, but I fully believe in choice...you don't want to use cheats, doesn't mean someone else out there does, which then comes down to you don't want someone out there to use cheats with your mod...makes since, the one I'm working on would just suck and become pointless if you use cheats, just like your 12 race insane death match deal....I could easily take on 100 races if I chose to CTRL+M and CTRL-SHIFT-R and have all techs...I have the willpower to not do that though...

My only point is it is a limitation to an ability that is out there...by pure definition alone.... My opinion is you really shouldn't concern yourself with what a cheater does, realize that the world is full of them, and you should be happy that YOU have been able to make a game into your own by modding it, and have provided a new challenge to some people out there, and another thing to cheat on for others...basically I guess I'm saying while I agree with what you said, I think you are concerning yourself too much with someone, who will never have an affect on your life, is deciding to do.

It is a highly modible game, with or without the cheat code, the game works, and is modible. I think that it should be an option to be able to hide somewhere in a mod code that will disable cheats, but I do not think they should be removed, use them if you want, don't use them if you don't want.

Besides, everyone else complains about something (unfortunatly, thats the way of things) This is the single most game killer, especially if you want to put out a mod to challenge people (this post was not out of the blue, my friend plays the game, and he told me he had to add a lot of money to himself to deal with my last mod, it kinda pissed me off, and made me realize the fact that no matter how much time I or anyone (as there are far better modders then me) spend on a mod, it means nothing if there are cheat codes) it is impossible as things are now, thats the point Im trying to make.

ST

It doesn't mean nothing....it means nothing to a cheater besides a couple more hours of game play that is pointless because it provides no real challenge....there will be people out there though that play it, without using cheats, and for them it could end up providing hours/days of enjoyment...so either way, you provide someone else out there with something to do, shouldn't be your concern on how they enjoy it.

It limits a choice that has been given, thats how it limits. I'm sorry, call me anything you want, but I fully believe in choice...you don't want to use cheats, doesn't mean someone else out there does, which then comes down to you don't want someone out there to use cheats with your mod...makes since, the one I'm working on would just suck and become pointless if you use cheats, just like your 12 race insane death match deal....I could easily take on 100 races if I chose to CTRL+M and CTRL-SHIFT-R and have all techs...I have the willpower to not do that though... My only point is it is a limitation to an ability that is out there...by pure definition alone.... My opinion is you really shouldn't concern yourself with what a cheater does, realize that the world is full of them, and you should be happy that YOU have been able to make a game into your own by modding it, and have provided a new challenge to some people out there, and another thing to cheat on for others...basically I guess I'm saying while I agree with what you said, I think you are concerning yourself too much with someone, who will never have an affect on your life, is deciding to do. It is a highly modible game, with or without the cheat code, the game works, and is modible. I think that it should be an option to be able to hide somewhere in a mod code that will disable cheats, but I do not think they should be removed, use them if you want, don't use them if you don't want.

Hey quote worked here for once!! lol Anyway, that is a very intellegent response, and I see your point, but you dont think that cheat codes kill a game? Ive talked to many people on this (Ive made allot of mods for games) and it is the single worst "feature" of a game, granted, its up to the player, but dont you think that in general, in the long run, it turns people off dispite the short term benifit to the game?

Oh, my mod wasnt intended as a slay all mod, but there are many posts on the game being too easy, I just thought Id give them something to try as I think its quite challenging, of course, its determined by the level you pick, but should offer a fun challenge (sorry, got a bit defensive there lol) ST

Why do have such a control issue with what others do while playing a stupid game?
Do you try to control everyone in your life to such an extent?

That is unhealthy. Your money would be better spent in therapy.

Why do have such a control issue with what others do while playing a stupid game? Do you try to control everyone in your life to such an extent? That is unhealthy. Your money would be better spent in therapy.

If its a stupid game, why do you care that I post my opinion on something? Why did you bother posting here if its no big deal? Afterall, its just me posting my opinion, didnt know that was illegal here, you may not agree, and thats cool, but thats no reason to be rude about it.

ST


PS. Im not being contoling, Im simply posting my opinion that I feel strongly about, something I think will kill the game. If you wanna cheat, go ahead, there in the code. but troll elsewhere...

I also think it's a matter of choice. Also... you can't prevent people who want to cheat from cheating just by removing any cheats from a game. Usually a few days after every game's release there are so-called trainer programs around that you run in the background. Most of them work in a way that the cheat function doesn't even have to be implemented in the game...

Sorry, but you want the game changed for your own satisfaction in controlling how others play it.

And by "a stupid game" I mean that it is a game, pure and simple. It is not that serious of a thing. No lives hang in the balance. Empires will not be toppled. No personal harm can come to you if someone else cheats. Why is it such an issue?

I understand your point, but I disagree with some of your conclusions on cheat codes. Firstly, most of the "cheat codes" are more or less debug codes, which allow for a much simplier method of testing the game, and/or mods. As a modder, surely you can understand that sometimes, things come up in the mod, that aren't intended. Having the debug codes allow you to go in and recreate the area you think might be a problem, and quickly test and retest until you've fixed it, rather than playing a scenerio again and again and causing the debug time to be immensely longer.

I do agree with you, that using cheat codes to play or get by in a game, does take away from it. This really is best left to personal preference though. As for the game being too easy, that statement can be true of a person playing on the lower difficulty levels. From what I've experienced, the difficulty scales well with the different settings, and on the easiest level, things are incredibly simple. A person boasting of their accomplisments while using cheats, isn't much different then them doing the same boast but on the easiest difficulty. At the end of the day, all you have is a person's word to go by, and whether they cheated, used an easy difficulty, or simply played with magnificent style, only they will truly know, and if they feel the need to lie about their accomplishments, they'll do so regardless.

I can understand your frustration, of making a mod, and wanting to ensure that it's played as you intended, but the overall picture, at least for me, is whether or not others enjoyed their experience. A person plays a game, to enjoy themselves. The stimulus for that enjoyment can be different for different people. For example, some people love a challenge in their games. They want things as difficult as possible, and don't mind losing almost all the time, because on the occasion they win, it makes it feel that much more accomplished. Other people might find the same level of enjoyment, simply by winning, regardless of the challenge. Whether easy or difficult may not matter to them, as long as they mostly beat that which they attempt. Even your own mod, may be complex and well thought out, and while some people may love the depth, others might equally not like it because of the complexity. A person can't please everyone.

Ultimately, I understand your position and reasoning, and there are some very valid points to it, but I think in the overall larger picture, that they actually take away from things. The argument of removing them because they are just too tempting to use, is one which I really disagree with. I also know though, that particular argument is one of those endless types, as there are as many people who can't resist using them if they're there, as there are people who can, and neither side seems to ever gain any ground in convincing the other. Plus, this currently being a single player game, what difference does it really matter one way or the other if a user did cheat? If you're looking to compete with people's scores, there's the metaverse games.

On a more personal note, I do love the offer you made to Stardock to pay them for removing the codes. Even though I may disagree with your views and reasoning, I do have to give you props for at least making an offer like that. At least it shows you're willing to go that extra step in order to see some action on something you feel very strong about.

True, but havein a ton of built in cheats doesnt help any, I realize most people will want cheats, but after a month or so, you'll never see them here again, unless there posting on how easy the game is. Which IMO its not, unless I use cheats (which I am guilty of some time)

ST

Well, I do agree, it does turn some people off, but not everyone cheats, and not everyone who cheats, cheats all the time, some people go back and forth from cheating, to actually presenting themself with a challenge. It does not turn you off if you don't cheat.....and the most important part that you left out, its an OPTIONAL feature.... The game doesn't force you to cheat...therefor, the problem is not the cheat code... While it sounds kind of harsh, Moosetek13 has the point I am trying to make, you shouldn't be concerned with what others do while playing a game...if it provides them enjoyment, it provides them enjoyment, nuff said. If you really want to tactical some issues, there are much bigger and "better" (meaning worse) things to concern yourself on in the world....

I personally applaud everyone involved in making the game, from those that just funded it by throwing cash the right direction, they made a game that has provided many with many hours of game play, and provided people with an ABUNDANCE of choices, because really, thats what modding is, choosing to play the game in a different fashion....which....is what cheating is....I could mod myself into an unstoppable force that the computer could not even come close to competing against by changing the stats to a race...that is a mod...it is also a cheat...These people created something spectular that gave you the choice...conquer by might, conquer by intelligence, conquer by influence...conquer by extending the olive branch...conquer by cheating your opponents into submission, which ever way you wish to play, just have fun doing it. If not, do what any healthy person would do, go outside, run, if you can't run, walk, do something active, find someone to have meaningful conversation with (besides arguing the pointless sides of pro-choice vs pro-control for the better)

Anyways, this will be my last point on this for the night, I already ran for the day, and will now continue to mod or maybe go spend time with my significant other.

@Eidolonsfury , thanks I respect your intellegent opinion and it means allot, and as to your question "Does it really matter how someone plays the game" Well no, not really, people cant cheat themselves out of the fun of the game, or not, and I see your point on the cheat codes...sort of. I dont see cheat codes as a mandatory choice/funfactor as they ultimatly remove the long term fun of a game. Yes I agree, many of the cheat codes are great for modding ships, or figureing out stuff.. I guess I was a bit "general" with my critisizm, as I really only have a problem with some of them, The BC cheat, The Planet Quality, the teleport, the instant production, reasearch, upgrade etc.. I see no point in them but to kill the hard work put into the game. Granted, there are many cheats that are NOT really cheats, perhaps they could be made features, like the ctrl+n command? Afterall, the new one they added, who cares if someone wants a pre-election for gov, that only has the option of hurting them, its the gain all reaserch, make a battleship, teleport, PQ type cheats that I have a problem with, do I care if people cheat? Well I guess not, everyone should enjoy there game, but from a selfish point of view, it would suck to spend allot of time on a mod, that someone cheats through and posts your mods too easy, Im good at this game, and thouh there is the "hump" factor, I do NOT agree that playing on the hardest level is cake, for this reason alone, I wish there was multiplayer, that would expose the fakes from the 4x'ers lol anyway, thanks for the thoughtful response.

(PS.. Doesnt change my $500 offer)

ST

@ Renfl I agree, this is a awsome game man I still feel that cheat codes will be the death of many players playing the game, but thats just my opinion, I simply dont see a point in them except to undermind the game.

I DO understad the points made, and there all valide, and intellegently made. IMHO I still think they undermind the game, I mean look at it like this, why would you spend so much time on such a great engine and game, just to defeate it all with a simple ctrl+?, I guess where I respectfully disagree with you guys, is that I dont see "cheats" as a issue of "freedom of choice" I see it as cheats.. A means that kills the game, makes it impossible to tell what posts are genuine, and which posts are not.

Yes I agree that trainers, hacks etc, always come out for a game, I can hack any game, but why make them a part of thegame, SD worked too hard to get were they are in this game to trow all that away with simple ctl+cheat codes. I dont see why they have to be there, I understand the opposision to my post, and knew this would be the case, I thought long and hard before posting it. But I really feel that built in cheat codes destroy a game. I understand few if any will agree with me, and thats fine, I knew that most responses though, from what I see of this community would be productive, but I knew Id get the "ignorant" responses as well lol. But at least it helps show you, who is who

Anyway, I stand by my offer, in the long run, cheats do more to hurt a game then help, I bet most of you agree with me here, weather or not you post it or not.

ST

lol well you cant stop all cheats becasue even in 50 years with all the new games dev. teams will alwasy let cheats oout by puting in a code or making you do things ingame to get acces to them. On a game for the xbox and ps2 (i forgot the name of it) you had to find icons hidden on every mission and you got points for them. There where cheats like make you invisable and max ammo all the way to being able to kill in one shot.
Cheats are there for players who cant get past levels even on the lowest dif. and for players who beat the game on ever dif. level and want see how it is using cheats. i played a shooting game where I died on a sertain level 50 times on easy tell I was able to get it right and on some level I could not get past enemys even if was slow so I used cheats like take no damage or max ammo. They might not take away cheats but make it where you need to beat the game first to get acces to the cheat menu or earn points by finding items ingame.

Agreed. Cheats kill games. Cheats destroy good games and Cheats make multiplayer in particular particularly annoying. Look at what happened with BF2 and Unreal Tournament. Auto Aimbots and Spawnkilling and general Exploit Abuse killed all the fun of trying to be the best on game ranking servers. These games used to be fun now you can count on half the anonymous players to be cheating. What fun is that?

I'm not sure if this was stated before, but cheats are put in by developers so that they are readily available to test certain conditions quickly and easily. For example, if you wanted to fix a bug that happens during technology victories, it's much easier to cheat up to the point where the bug happens than play a whole game through.

The cheats are left in so that A) developers and modders can fix bugs after the game is released, and cheats can let people ruin the games for themselves. I don't like cheating, but I understand all the codes so that should the occasion arise, I can do it.

Cheats can be disabled. You actually need to change the launch target of the shortcut exe to make them work.

And for the record, I learned to play this game by cheating. Not ctrl+n, I hate that, but once a month giving myself 10,000BC. Doing this I could rush-buy a lot more, and got to learn the game mechanics.

I'm still not a great player. But I can hold my own on intelligent now, no problem. And as much as I HATE AND DESPISE all those who cheat or ctrl+n (no, it's bloody well not a valid option after the 3rd time) and then troll about how bad the game is, cheating to learn is still a valid option. It's like supporting a child to learn to ride a bike. It's cheating, but it works, and is less painful.

I don't see the problem. I never cheat in games, so cheats being available don't bother me. I know plenty of people who are unable to play games without using cheats - so they suck. Who cares?

I have never cheated in a game, whether to learn or not. Frankly, how are you 'learning' when you just give yourself $10,000 all the time? You learn by LOSING.

Like I said, same way a child learns to ride a bike with stabilisers. You always learn by crashing in the end, it teaches you the mechanics. I learned how the game functions, what buildings to put where, when to buy, how to build ships, with a bit of cash extra.

Then, I got bored of doing it, disabled cheats, and got beaten senseless for about 4 days of solid playing, until I managed to get a stable economy, and could win on tough.

I don't use cheats myself in this game (plenty of difficulty choices) though it's personal preference for most people, if they want to cheat, let them, it doesn't bother me that others cheat, as long as it can't be posted on metaverse as a normal game.
Then again I haven't posted anything to metaverse