AI "surrenders" to another CIV and the reaction of anyone with reason

agreed

Not agreed. If you want genocide to the race that surrendered, it is your problem to make it up with the empire it surrendered to.

I really don't think there shall be any restrictions about to who a losing empire surrenders to as this often spices up the game.

Sounds more like the reaction of a spoiled brat of a child with a temper tantrum.

In GC2 there are probably more ways to play the game than players, so don't assume we all "will exact retribution".
I, for one, will be happy once an enemy is no longer a threat, regardless of where he/she/it went. The newly formed entity could, of course, be or become an even bigger threat, but at least we're not immediately at war!

Actually, current way is very unrealistic and "gamey", a way to artificially spoil victory for someone (reducing joy element instead of increasing it), without some common sense.

Why would your friend accept surrenter of your enemy if he knew it would lead to bad relations or even war?

Why would weak race accept surrender if it would lead to its extermination?

Why I'm forced to accept surrender of some alien race 5 parasecs away? (no yes/no button)

Current implementation is just badly done.

All it accomplishes is that players start playing safe, but trying not to destroy enemy space force as long as possible (fooling them that they still have chance to defend themself) and doing destruction of space and planetary troops all in one turn, so there is no time for surrender.

Completly opposite of shock-and-awe tactics, from real world.
GalCiv has shock-and-surrender to somebody else.

I've had games where 6 teams surrendered to the iconians even though they didn't get involved in any of the wars. They had 3/4 of the map without lifting a finger. i had to dig in and go for a tech victory.

I've had games where 6 teams surrendered to the iconians even though they didn't get involved in any of the wars. They had 3/4 of the map without lifting a finger. i had to dig in and go for a tech victory.

yeah, that happened to me a few times, and it's very annoying, especially when it happens early in the game. It's like you wanted to play a game with 9 other races, and they kill each other so quickly that you wind up playing a one to one game against a superpower.

Yeah, I hate it when they surrender to an empire I did not want to destroy yet, because they do become my new target when that happens. What I have learned to do is once I have an empire down to only two or three planets, I make peace with them for money or teches, then wait till I have a large enough fleet of warships and transports near by to take all remaining planets in one turn. That usually works but sometimes they go ahead and surrender to someone else anyway even when I am not technically at war with them.

One thing I have seen is that my allies declare war on one of my targets.. and after I have nuked every ship they own, my allies will "help" by occupying a planet that I was going to occupy (as soon as my Combat Transports were buildt).

Let me just say: those bastards!

Naturally this causes me to declare war on them as well, despite me having a 300 army rating vs theirs 120ish the pull such foolish pranks.

I would have liked for the AI to somehow 'see' what I am doing. Having already destroyed 2 of my 5 allies, they should see the writing on the wall and declare war on me.

The only reason I can fund my warmongering is by a 30% tax rate and a LOT of trade... if they decided to trade boycott me, like I do with my enemies, they would seriously harm my war effort... but foolishly they do not, and they die.

I think the way it works is great.
After all - they don't always surrender to somebody else. They also surrender to you sometimes. Someone from stardock once said the decision to surrender to somebody it's a complicated process taking a lot of things into account, especially the dfferent AI profiles and relationships.

Wouldn't a human player do the same? When I was loosing in a "fictional" multiplayer game - I would give my ast colonies to somebody else as well. And believe me: not to the one who harresed and crushed my beautiful and peace loving nation. Why should they just watch their inevitable extermination?
And where is the problem when they surrender to your allies? When they are your allies and you go for a diplomacy, research etc. victory everything is fine. If you wanted to go conquest you would have to deal with your "allies" at some point anyway. This way they only find out who they allied with a bit earlier...
And why attack the nation they surrendered to? If you wanted to just wipe put that race - they are gone. If you want to conquer you schouldn't care about any other nation anyway.
And I think 2-3 or more surrendering to the same race is actually fun, because you get a worthy opponent. Maybe even one who is to strong. But that only adds to the overall experience I think. I can understand that some like to crush one race after the other and all of them behaving like little lamb waiting for the slaughter, but that would be boring for me.
And Allies: I think it's great that they conquer planets of my enemy. That's why your allied, isn't it? They help you. When your strong enough you don't need allies, but in some situations where I was sitting on a plate or a rce in my backyard declared war on me while I was occupied on another front - it were my allies that saved me by invading enemy planets! And I don't know how the game should take into account who invested more ships in breaking down a defense fleet in orbit on wich planet and so on. I guess you take advantage of planets some AI player "cleared" for you, don't you? I guess people would complain as well when allies would just sit around sending some fleets from time to time. And the way it is now is realistic in my opinion.

One thing though - I agree that the human player should have the option to accept a surrender from another race or not. Whatever reasons someone might have. Maybe they don't want colonies on the other side of the map in the influence spheres of empires they don't want to confront at this point.

OK, that's just what I think.

The best work around is to identify all the enemy planets and take them quickly. Emphasis on quick.

If someone surrenders colonies to you that you don't want (as was mentioned: on the other side of the galaxy), you could always just give them away to someone else. No border problems with the other races that way, and the receiving race probably likes you more. Even better, give the colonies to a race that doesn't have any influence in the location of those colonies. Then the receiving race has more strained relations with the others around those colonies. Maybe you can use that to get the two top players fighting each other, leaving you to pick up the pieces. Weee.

I think the race should surrender to the races that closely related to it. I also think there should be a protectorate avenue to go, so a race might not have to be completely obliterated and could possibly come back.


Just my two cents.

Peace

This is why I didnt want multi-player. As mentioned above, if we knew we were losing we would rather give our remaining stuff to someone else that might revenge us. I would expect the new threads to be people demanding that stardock block players from doing that as they are "robbed" of their rewards. Crying foul when the AI does something that we ourselves would do is a bit off I would say.

Peronally in an MP game I would gift all my ships to my enemies enemy and then gift my tech/cash and planets. Even if my enemy managed to take the few planets I transfered the other player is now much stronger than before and poses a hell of a risk.

Actually, current way is very unrealistic and "gamey", a way to artificially spoil victory for someone (reducing joy element instead of increasing it), without some common sense. Why would your friend accept surrenter of your enemy if he knew it would lead to bad relations or even war?

I like to think of it as a faction of the other party suing for peace and becoming a protectorate of the other empire. Or a semi-independent entity like Vichy France in WWII. Heck anything that complicates my conquests is welcome to me.

I find the added pressure of the chase to grab the last worlds before surrender, fun. And the randomness of whose a few straggler worlds flip to and the resulting change on the fly of my next victim to be enjoyable.

Doesn't really matter to me because in the end they're all gonna be my loyal subjects or I gonna die trying.

Wouldn't a human player do the same? When I was loosing in a "fictional" multiplayer game - I would give my ast colonies to somebody else as well.

Isn't a human player's tendency to bail out on a game when they're losing one of the stated reasons most people in this forum wouldn't use multiplayer, though?

should be a protectorate avenue to go

I liked the submissive pact idea that was in SMAC. The surrendering AI gave you all their tech and you had access to their bases but they could (didn't usually happen) come back and they could break the pact if you committed attrocities.

I have never had a surrender since the early betas. It is easy to see why an AI might not surrender to an aggressor but it is much harder to figure out why an AI would surrender to say the Drengi when they are close to me ethically and diplomatically and bitter enemies with the Drengi. Then if the situation is reversed and I am the agressor they come haw hawing that I may have beaten them but some other AI has agree to be their benefactor and accept their surrender.

Ithink the current algorithm is in response to complaints about early surrender but I can live with it. The warmongers rule the game.

I hate how I'm done conquering everyone of their planets except their main base (with industrial and economic capital) and their PQ4 planet, and they decide to surrender to someone else. I know I'd do the same thing as them in multiplayer, but it's really annoying, especially when the planets have some galactic achievements or trade goods you want

You should prioritise your targets better then... go after the juicy targets first and then do the mopping up of bits and pieces later.

Also, don't kill enemy fleets unless you have to. If they think they've still got a chance of winning, they probably won't surrender.

Generally, I like to take over my enemy's planets in one or two turns, but crushing their forces and then positioning carriers for a single mass invasion.

They don't get a chance to surrender.

Hit the AI with over whelming force and they will surrender to you, in my current game I had the Torians, Alterians & Arceans all surrendered to me after taking around 80% of their planets in 2 turns. It also helps to leave them some ships so they they think they have a chance. I noticed they do the spite surrender after you taking half their planets and destroyed their ships.

Also N0118 is correct go through their planets target the high pq, galactic wonders, bonuses 300% or better and make their home planet the first target, once you taking that out its a cake walk

As for surrendering to an Allie I just laugh because thats the same as surrendering to me.

I think the AI is quite good at picking whom it surrenders to. Pick the worst possible option for you and that 9/10 times is whom it surrenders to. Which is why it is so frustrating.

I always pick my fights with the strongest AI first. If you fight a weaker opponent they will inevitably surrender to the strongest. All your doing is making your enemy super power stronger.

I

I think the surrender should go to the closest race ethically and diplomatically. On my last game where the drengin eventually became a powerhouse and sacked the altarians and torians, I ended up with both of their empires since I was nice to them. It works both ways depending on your play style. Evil expansionist races should not have planets given to them since they're probably just going to eat the citizens anyway.

I like that they surrender. And yes I do get mad. But it inspires me to rethink my plan, which is a GOOD thing.

To just have them sit there and get slaughtered by a superior enemy seems like it may bore me.

may I lead you to this thread?

you may be interested...

https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=109724&cmd=myposts#877992