When do you start on your military?

Get particle cannon, slap it on a small hull, spam out about 5-10 of those early in the game and watch your military rating sore. You won't be harassed then. You'll lose very little turns of teching up. Play with your sliders as well.

yeah...
if they call your bluff, your dead.
but all they see is that bar, and if its high, they wont attack. they cannot check. (unless they send scouts everywhere )

i generally do that tactic, then research up the research enhancing techs ASAP (after one factory tech) to get ahead in the tech race.
just go with the flo. if war is everywhere, i suggest preparing for a fight. since thats the best way to avoid war.

Personally, I just get a few well-designed Small craft out (usually with either mass drivers or missiles), preferably with one point in defense, if I have the room. Speed isn't all that much of an issue, since they're around just to defend my planets.

Usually I'll try and get them out and defending within the first six months of the first year. It's a good buffer for early aggression, and keeps the cherry pickers off my backside, so I can build my economy.

I usually play on large or huge maps.

I wait as long as I can to build since distance makes it tough to transport rush me.

I feel free until someone develops planetary invasion and starts building transports.

As soon as I start seeing enemy ships being made in mass on the military graph, or on the trade screen or if I start getting extortion threats. I buy a cheap defense starter fleet of either the most weapons I can fit in a small hull or just 1 weapon in a small hull.

I then mass build and concentrate on building that hollow fleet until I start showing up competitive on the military graph.

Then I stop building and pretty much stop getting extorted.

I place 1 ship in orbit to defend my border colonies.

After my planets get their production going and I get over the initial cash hump, and when I am about to start shooting someone, I upgrade those shells into 1 engine and one or two of my best weapons (usually missiles).

So do you guys not worry too much about spending most of your initial cash in building colony ships? I have been having the same type of problems in terms of getting beat up early because I have no real defence. The reason is that I spent most of my cash building colony ships so I can get as many planets as possible in an attempt to jump start my economy and then build a massive fleet. That has been my plan anyway...I have only won once doing that. Most of the time I end up living hand to mouth as I fight a desperate struggle just to survive and hold my initial planets. I eventually fall behind an become cannon fodder.

Is there some magic number of initial colonies you are happy with before you build your fleets and then I suppose eventually just take over other plantes?

I usually rush to "Space Weapons" as quickly as I can, then start building "Defender"s on each planet that's built its starport. Each planet needs a ship in orbit anyway and the attack strength goes from "1" to "2" since it's kept in the starport. Just doing that usually gives me a high rating early on.

By the time anyone catches up, I've had time to research at least to "Laser V" and enhanced miniaturization and can put out small hull ships with 5 or 6 laser attack (depends on if I add engines or not).

As Kosty indicated, military ship production will depend on individual game conditions...

That said, I generally still follow the same early fleet strat.
(1) Tiny hull, no engine, no defense, one weapon - for orbital defender
(2) Tiny hull, 2 engines, no defense, one weapon - for space interceptor
(3) Small hull, 2 engines, no defense, two weapons - a "Top Gun" fighter

Also important early for military ships are basic miniaturization and logistics...

Byram

I uh don't do any of those.

I wait true, but its almost last minute, nothing but colony ships and constructors. When I play tech trade on or off. Most of the time I don't do military until the same nation asks for a bribe twice. Than I check their military stats and make whatever I happen to have as the best weapon tech and defense tech, as I am usually at impulse 3 by this time I slap on a drive unit also. 2 - Heavy fighters first than a medium for each planet. I keep doing my thing at that point. Wait until someone is getting froggy and requesting cash again and upgrade or build some more. Course my research tree is probably something entirely different so that could play a huge factor.

Keep on trying and refining your own strategy for success is my advice.

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large

Some good tips there guys. Thanks for your help. I wish I wasn't so busy right now or I would go test them out! Keep the tips coming if you got em though.

-Jason

generally when I play it's on the largest size galaxy everything is randomized save for that.. I rush to get the miniturization finished first then go for the invention matrix. With those 2 outta the way I concentrate on trade. Sure I get the extortion messages wanting 517bc here 178bc there etc.. I just reject them send over 1bc and they don't do anything... Next I set up a few economy starbases as just a way to give me some expanded range and early warning system. Zoom out the map and you can where all the trade lanes are and just put a few out there so the lane is inside the influence zone, This comes in handy once you've gone over to the dark side and choose evil as your alignment. Anyhow with good researching now available and supreme miniturization outta the way I concentrate on hulls not even touching the weapon systems yet. once the massive scale is finished I then move into govt. get it up to at least democracy. During all of this I might throw out 1 or 2 freighters just so I can get some extra income that way as well. Once all of this is done I usually start seeing the big fleets out there. Time to get the Eyes of The Universe built. Any ship that comes into visual range of my flagship The USS Cannon Fodder I scan them to see what weapons they are using. 90% of the time they are missle based. The other 10% seems to be mass Driver. So I start going for the Beam weapons and defenses for the other 2. By this point I'm rolling in money So I start making nice huge ships that are multipurpose Attack/Invade use that advanced troop transport 5 times on a huge ship and give it some kick ass beams that don't take up alot of space and not much will stand in your way.

But above all else never pay the other civs more than 1BC during extortion. You can always afford that and it keeps them at bay. But by this point in the game you should'nt be getting extortion anymore anyhow..

Watch the military graph, you don't need to build a single military ship until you see the computer start to build ships.

If you don't consider tech trading too cheesy, use this as a trigger for tech trading for military techs and immediately design and start building ships as soon as the computer puts out it's first ship. Then, after a few turns, check to see if any of your neighbors haven't built any ships. If they haven't, especially if they don't yet have planetary invasion, this is often a good place to start your first war.

In order, scout their territory, put together a small fleet or two, build your transports and regularly check back on the graph. If they have armed up in the meantime (check the ships they have orbiting their planets, not just the graphs), flip your ship production back to economic targets after you have put one ship in orbit around every planet. You rarely end up with more than a couple of extra ships and you haven’t really put down that much of an investment. You would be amazed at how often you can hit a defenseless or near defenseless neighbor at this stage.

There is a cheezy strategy to consistant (if boring...) wins.

Get a few planets, and research diplomacy all the way to Total Majesty at the end of the diplomacy tree. Immediately build a Spin Control Center, and create a new ship by filling a Cargo Hold with nothing but your highest weapon. Then make a few more. Keep them in orbit around your planet with the spin control.

Go to the 'Statistics and Graphs' section of your foriegn relations screen, and make sure your military is at least 1/3 above the 'Top Players'. If the other players start catching up to your spin controlled military level, update those cargo holds with even more weapons.

This exploit keeps other societies from attacking you while you research up to black hole generators or whatever. Then you build up an economy and military fleet that is tremendously above all other's tech, and wipe the map clean.

It gives you 'wins', but eventually isn't much fun.

I get Laser II and Impulse, so I can make a tiny impulse ships with a laser. A stack of these will take an enemy planet. Add Basic Miniaturization and I can build a small ship with two lasers for about the cost of 1.6 tiny ships. These small ships can be useful for thirty turns. The next version has two impulse engines for six moves. Usually, I start researching missiles after the laser fleets, because the AIs start researching anti-laser defenses when those initial ships blow up everything.

If playing on gigantic maps, small sensor ships can be upgraded to warships for 100 to 200 credits each.

The tech path I take is Impulse first, Planetary Improvements, one or two other side techs such as Basic Min or Xeno Economics, Laser II, then Planetary Invasion. When I get to Space Marines it is time to invade. This is at 50% tech rate, 100% approval (low taxes). I spend maybe 3000 of the initial stash. The rest is needed to run on a deficit every turn and pay for invasions.

I wait till someone start demanding tributes. By that time I usually have or am close to having neutrality learning centers. It is convenient in that it not only provides me with an excuse to start researching military techs, but also provides me with my first victim. The AI is never in a hurry to actually start fighting it seems. I never have to worry about a Pearl Harbor type incident so it makes planning easier.

The moment other races aquire the invasion tech is when I start a buildup of military ships

Did you guys know that if you have some decent diplomacy and build the first combat vessel, even if it is only 1 attack, that gives you huge leverage as you are way out in front in the military graph.
You can ask any race you have met for a tech and 9 times out of 10 they will give it willingly, even miniturization or logistic techs. Dont bother asking twice tho.

As for tons of crappy ships, well that works fine on lower levels but on masochist, you need decent ships and a spin centre stacked with good ships to just stay in any way competative. I have found that all that diplo-tech increases your chance of buying into a weapon tech tree at a decent level. If it is mass drivers then you could build some nano ripper ships but they are expensive, a few more techs gets you smaller cheaper weapons that when added up gives you the same damage but far cheaper - same goes for evil weapons and good defences.

I start producing military ship after about 2,5-3years of gametime (something between 150 and 200 rounds)

Usually after I get my resource starbases loaded up I'll start with warships. Then I get them to 1 turn away from completion and stop production on them until needed. I don't like the cost of maintaining ships, so I wait until war is declared before rolling them out. And if the AI builds bigger than me in the meantime, it is an easy matter to upgrade them or build larger hulls quickly. So I have zero military until actually needed, and the AI usually leaves me alone until all the minor races have been taken out. I spend most of my resources on research, diplomacy and economy, so I usually have far better ships when I do get around to building them.

Oh come on...
If you have little or no military you are just asking to be attacked and on masochist level the AI can eat you up quick unless you have a few good fleets and that wont be easy when the AI has such huge bonuses.
Better to act bigger than you are with the spin control centre with good no engine ships in orbit.
Play for time to get decent weapons, hulls engines miniturization & logistics and defences plus with a bit of shrewed play maybe some allies. Then go on the rampage when you are ready.

Edit:
Ah, I just thought...
If you are playing dread lords on parade game then do not build any military ships until you can build damn good ones, fast, good attack and defence. The reason is that the DL can kill off anything you build early on and they can sniff out your ships or starbases across the map, so it is a waste.
You will find it a good idea to get good diplotech to make allies. Research the planetary attcak and defence so your worlds stand a chance of fending of DL transports. This will also enable you in the event of a DL world near you (or one you lost) to be able to buy a real fast transport with say 3 or 4 adv troop modules get a planet and maybe get a good tech steal.
I think the DL will be harder to deal with considering 1.2 patch.

Oh come on... If you have little or no military you are just asking to be attacked and on masochist level the AI can eat you up quick unless you have a few good fleets and that wont be easy when the AI has such huge bonuses.

Its not actually that cut and dried cebuguy. Why waste some serious infrastructure building time and put a load of fleets - which are worthless even in the early mid game - and set them as a weight around your neck. Who cares if the AI gets annoyed with you for being weak. The AI as far as I have been playing have never gone to war before Planetary invasion is researched.

I start producing military ship after about 2,5-3years of gametime (something between 150 and 200 rounds)

Hey DM04 how ya doin? That is a pretty surprising statement you just made there. Shocking in fact. The galaxy must love you for some reason...

If you are playing dread lords on parade game then do not build any military ships until you can build damn good ones, fast, good attack and defence. The reason is that the DL can kill off anything you build early on and they can sniff out your ships or starbases across the map, so it is a waste.

A small fleet of fighters (5 lasers each) can kill them just fine. It's rougher when they use shields, but even that doesn't save them most of the time. It keeps the buggers out of your territory (usually) while you're researching disruptors and hyperwarp.

Even with basic factories, you can pump out a decent fighter at 1 per turn on the homeworld or the Manufacturing capital. 5 lasers and an Impulse III and 7 per fleet will last you a nice long while with the Dread Lords.

I wait until I can stick two impulse engines and a weapon on the ship, that way they can keep up to the first generation impulse based craft I build.

Generally that is fairly early, I will pump out a few defenders if a neighbor starts to get a little testy with me, but I prefer to avoid it as the things are useless when the shooting starts.

I start out with up to Ion drive. So this can be traded most of the time when I first meet a race(I research up to diplomatic translater first). I also have been using a research and economy heavy race. I don't build up my military until after i've researched up to lvl 5 laser, up to advanced diplomacy(alliances as well), and have a lot of the low level technologies researched. Then I trade with the AI for diplomatic translaters. Then end my turn after I have them. The following turn I trade for as much as I can, which i'm usually able to get everything the AI has. Then I build all the upgrades on the planets while making small ships with one engine and as many weapons as I can. These fleets defend. Sometimes the ai declares war soon after i start buildings ship, but soon after i've traded with the AI for techs I researched heavy into solidering bonus techs. Works fairly well on medium and up galaxies.

All I know is never trust the Drengin, I was in friendly terms with them and since they haven't gone to war for a long time they suddenly turn on me. With drengin, I make sure I have a custom race with Xeno industry so that I can eventually go for the huge hulls, also with good defence and miniturization. Now, If you have other civs covering your ass from the Drengin, I boost up my economy until I'm making at least 150bc a week so that I can pay off some neighbors at the start until I get advance diplomacy and eventually star democracy so that I can get economic bonus while at this point you probably have an event that causes all empires with an economic boost and my income becomes 300 bc/wk. Believe me, money can buy everything, I once bought 5 cuisers from the Altarians and they ended up droping in their military rating compare to mine. Guess what, they probably felt it was the wrong thing to do since I didn't hear from them for 6 months. I make sure I make every planet's income higher then the spendings by building trade centers and banks. Don't forget special modules on your starbases that enhance your freighters trade revenue when they pass through them and make sure it covers the planet when they land. All this is possible when I turn the tech trade off and on normal difficulty setting, if it's on I probably modify my strategy into more diplomacy and trade goods so I can buy their techs... And yes I do see what their ships are equipped with so that I can equip with counter weapons and defences but I only start building ships when I see their military rating much higher then mines. Remember, positioning is important, if one race like the Drengin is accross the galaxy with a military rating much higher then yours, you don't have to worry in the begining game.

When I start getting asked for tribute I trade for the best weapon anyone has. Then I build the best offensive small ships I can with no engines and put them in orbit. Then I wait until I have medium hulls researched and start working on weapons and defenses appropriate for what everyone else is building. Then I go to war.

I never build a spin center as I consider that cheesy. I try not to start a war until the other civ has at least some weapons on their defenders because I hate taking advantage of their stupidity. I want a challenge so I wait for the AI to be able to provide one. Oh, and I play on Suicidal.