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I think I've played my last game...

I think I've played my last game...

Review and commentary

So, I downloaded the 1.2Beta. And I played a medium game on Tough with abundent planets and 5 (total) races. And now I think I'm done with the game. Forever, regardless of expansions. So, perhaps I should review it.

Was it $40+ dollars well spent? In all fairness, I'd have to say yes; I've played it longer than Rome: Total War (though since I'm going back to R:TW, that may not be the case forever ).

I was introduced to some very un-Civilization-like game mechanics; Civ was the totality of my experience with TBS games, so it's interesting to see how different a TBS game can be.

The AI was the main feature touted by the game developers. From annecdotes posted on this forum, I could tell that the AI could be devious, starting wars of distraction while they built up power and so forth. However, at no time did I ever personally encounter such things.

In general, the AIs behaved somewhat similarly. Some races could expand well, others couldn't. Some went for offensive military, others just built a powerful defensive one. However, none of that matters because they all react to the same things in the same way.

The problem with the game is those intriguing mechanics. I've never played a game where you can trick the AI into doing the wrong thing so easily. If you want to keep the AI off your back militarily early on, build a few of cheap attack ships. and have a good diplomacy (build diplomacy wonders). If you want to keep the AI off your back later in the game, research the entire diplomacy tree, and build a Spin Control Center. That will keep you unmolested until you're powerful enough to kill everyone.

Another problem with the mechanics is that, once you get ahead, it becomes a continuously compounding problem. It starts with the tech tree.

In Civilization 2, you can't decide to research banks and marketplaces whenever you want, even if you have cities where they would be worthwhile. You have to research along the general intwined path that the game designers put together. You can get ahead in certain areas, putting off certain other techs and so forth. Terrain (and city size/growth) mandates that you can only get bigger so fast.

In GalCiv2, the only thing that prevents you from getting whatever building you want is how much research you have. Which makes research (and money) the foundation of any victory. Obviously, production matters, but research gives you production and more research. There's no slowing-down mechanism, so you can (relatively) quickly reach end-game status where you're just researching weapon techs.

In Civilization, you can only build one library in a city. Given specific terrain, and a specific tax rate, there is a fundamental maximum quantity of research that a city can do. In GC2, there are numerous ways to get more research; by allocating points during race creation, by finding galactic resources, by building more/better research buildings, and by using econ-starbases. If you do them all, the cumulative effects can "go non-linear".

Basically, in Civilization, the game designers can guarentee a certain pace to the game. They know just how fast a player is going to be able to advance, and so forth. In GC2, it is very easy to build up a world that has massive production, or has massive research, or has massive money making. And these happen pretty early into the game.

The fact that GC2 has no slowing down mechanism means that any slight advantage quickly magnifies and eventually becomes victory. And human beings always have an advantage over mere algorithms like AIs.

The ultimate problem with GC2 is that the mechanics make it a solved game, like tic-tac-toe. Population growth, morale, diplomacy, and research are the foundations of victory. You can, despite how many of the mechanics are hidden, easily find a strategy that will guarentee you victory on the highest difficulty level (before the AI gets cheats), without exploiting. The AI was designed specifically to be taken advantage of, and doing so is pretty easy.

No matter how simple and scripted other AIs are in other games, they, at least, don't have game-sanctioned methods for taking advantage of the AI. It's one thing for the AI to attack with a set style and set units, and to take advantage of this. It's an act of bad design when the AI is designed to be able to be deceived by certain factors.

The game is actually fairly entertaining before you find a way to solve the game. But once you do, the fun evaporates. Think of the game itself as being a meta-game puzzle: figure out enough of the game's mechanics to find the right way to play the game to guarentee success. Like any puzzle game, once you solve the puzzle, it instantly becomes less entertaining.

If I were to give this game some kind of numerical score, I'd say an 87/100 would be reasonable. I'm not fond of scoring games, however; I prefer having people read a review than just read a number and stop.
27,936 views 53 replies
Reply #51 Top
look, the changes some of you are asking for will never happen because noone else WANTS that. Compare this to chess, once beyond a certain point (3 power peices more then opponent) it is certain that you win and then you just have to pick the enemy apart. You say that this shouldn't happen, that the challenge should be to the very last second of the game, that is not only illogical, but also will take all the fun out of the game.

The AI was hyped, big whoop. It still manages to pose quite a threat WITHOUT using any cheats, which is OUTSTANDING. A cheating AI is the STANDARD, this AI might be stupid (compared to a human), but its actually an AI. Most games' "AI" is so incomplete that is needs to be "given" things because it can't do it properly by itself.

And for all the threats of being done with the game... unlikely. I just got alittle tired of galciv2 so i pulled out 5 different games and played them to exhaustion over the last wheek... and now its time to go back to galciv2. This isn't meant to be the ONLY game you will ever play again, its not supposed to have unbeatably intelligent AI, its not supposed to be a puzzle to find a method of "cheating" (which, btw, isn't cheating but rather proper use of strategy). It is a fun game that you play when you feel like it and would provide lots of enjoyment, hopefully more enjoyment then the competition....
Reply #52 Top
I fully agree with post #47,#50 and #51.
I also think part of the problem is that some people play this game excessively and exspect to be challenged till infinity.

I'd like all people that have a major problem with the AI as it is to give me good examples where it was made better. I just know the most recent competitors and they don't impress me at all. CIV IV is the best amongst those.
Do me a favor and download the demo of HOMM V and tell me what you think. Its 'AI' is ridiculous imo.

The only point where I disagree is the chess comparison: A good chess player (AI or human) can still put up a good fight with less pieces (going e.g. for a stalemate) and eventually take you down with a superior strategy (thinking ahead).
Reply #53 Top
Ok, Ive read this whole post, interesting conversation

However there are a few things that Id like to add, and a few things that are being overlooked IMO.

I agree that once you get over the "hump" it can be a bummer, but...

One of the main things about the game is its modability, the game is still relitivly new, and SD is still cranking out betas and upgrades to perfect the game, they read and respond to posts, look at MOO3 in comparison, I looked foward to that game for years, when it came out it was crap, the makers were gone, and it was left to the moding community to fix the game.

On the other hand the game is "still being worked on" the 1.2 betas (remember there betas) have vastly fixed many of the main problems (combat, building tons of embasys etc) so until 1.3 comes out, I dont think the full extent of the game has been seen yet.

Moding...
The game is VERY EASY to mod, If you dont like something, change it. If you think the NLC are cheap (which they are) change it, make it a NLFactory instead, shift it in the techs and wala, no more cheap NLC, If you want the AI to consintrate on something you dont feel it is (like I think it should make stock markets more of a priority) then change the [AI] priority [/AI] for that tech.

You could also for example, make a scenario where there are all teams (except you) or you can give inate race bonuses, filling in the areas you feel the AI is lacking in, if you think the AI sucks at building a economy, then give them a +30% in economy, and if you feel that that is haveing to make the AI cheat, then give your race a bonus in Luck or something.

I know many people who buy the game didnt buy it to mod it, but many people who do play 4x games are smart and useually tend toward moding, and it is very easy to change things.

Anyway, I just felt the moding part has been overlooked, I think once the game is "done" at 1.3, your gonna see full conversions (Hell, I may make one as Ive just gotton heavy into moding this game now that I found out how easy it is to make my own GUI ) Whole new techs trees, all new buildings etc..

I think that once this game is long done, 2-3 years from now, you will still see massive game remake mods comeing out for it, and I'll probably be one of them doing it

Anywhoo, my 2 cents worth as though I agree the AI could still use allot of tweaks, at least SD didnt pull a MOO3 on us

ST