AI building Starbases all over my "territory"

Hi,

I recently upgraded to the 1.11 patch, and granted, I haven't been playing the game for long, but I've encountered a pretty annoying issue.

Later in the game, the AI has taken to sticking Economy starbases all around my planets. My homeworld currently has economy starbases from all of the other four major civilizations around it, and I'm having to build influence starbases at a ridiculous rate. My side of the minimap looks like a rainbow there are so many. Recently, they've all started putting in Influence starbases too, all around my planets. I control about 1/3 of the map, so it's hard to keep up with them and still maintain my military. There are at least three starbases from other races around all of my systems, and even in some unpopulated ones. The economy starbases especially make no sense, as they're not getting any bonuses from them as far as I know.

I tried countering by going into their territory and building starbases, but I immediately start getting threats from them to remove them, and since I can't take on four civs at once at my current strength, I'm forced to let them do as they please.

I tried going into the Diplomacy menu and looking for an option to force them to remove them, but apparently such a thing doesn't exist, which hardly seems fair, as my only other option is to declare war on four other civilizations. There are so many that I would literally have to trade away all of my tech tree and all of my money to get rid of even half of them.

I scouted their territory and they're only doing it to me, they don't have any bases in each other's territory.

It's also incredibly annoying to have them randomly park fleets of warships around my planets. I'm not at war with anyone, but if I were, it'd be trouble. I tried doing the same to them, and got the same threats as before.

My relations with three of them are close or warm, and the last is neutral if it matters, so I don't understand why they're doing it. None of them are allied with each other either.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to reiterate the need for some sort of restrictions on enemy ships and starbases in my territory. For one thing, there are so many that the game is starting to lag when I start scrolling around my own territory, and two, if they declare war, they're already in prime position to attack, while I can't do the same. I'd like to see the ability to restrict foreign ships with weapons or starbases in an opponent's territory, or at least the option to tell them to get lost.

I've read other posts that all make the point that its impossible to control borders in space, and that's true to a certain degree, but I think that this is going a bit overboard, as no soveriegn entity would allow another power to build on this scale anywhere near their planets. I know there's the whole space is vertical too argument, but civilizations on earth claim airspace, so I don't see this as being any different. I know influence and territory are two seperate things, and I'm not talking about influence being redefined as borders, but rather the introduction of a new element, perhaps a diplomatic ability, that allows you to place restrictions on what the AI can park near your territory, perhaps based on your current relations with them.

Neutral and below would allow only freighters in, warm would allow scouts in addition to that, close would allow ships with weapons below a certain power, and alliance would allow warships and perhaps a certain number of starbases. (Of course, there should be an option for the player to restrict at will what is and isn't allowed into his territory.)

I'm not talking about this being a 100% AI is barred from your territory, they can choose to ignore it perhaps if they have a higher military or diplomatic ability than their opponent, or are currently at war with you.

Another idea is to set borders, but to only allow the AI or player to restrict what they can see, IE, if you went behind the AI and slipped some ships through their sensor grid they wouldn't be able to tell you get them out, because they wouldn't know they were there. Perhaps this would work better if there were a "Listening Post/Observation Post" module for the starbase, or heck, I guess just better sensor upgrades for them. Inversely, if they parked some ships in your fog of war area, you wouldn't
be able to stop them from entering your "territory" unless you uncovered them. Maybe there's a way to work the espionage ability in here, but I've written enough as it is.

...Wow, look how much I typed. Anyhow, my main point is is that this is really annoying, and I'd like to see some way other than declaring war or buying them off to get rid of their ships and starbases around my planets.

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far.

19,560 views 46 replies
Reply #1 Top
For some reason this isn't showing up on the front page??
Reply #2 Top
This would be a great situation to take advantage of some sabotage or covert action against starbases that didn't fit your fancy for being inside your area. I suspect they are trying to see what kind of ships you have in those sectors but you're right it's annoying. Are they of all different types or military or economic bases? I think you said economic bases but that doesn't make sense to me unless they are trying to recoup more freighter bonuses. I like the idea of them building starbases but you'd think they'd want to have more bases inside their territory then yours. It would still be cool to kill them or knock them down using sabotage or telling em to pack em up and get out of dodge.
Reply #3 Top
I agree that a diplomatic option "Tell them to get lost!" would be a useful addition. Perhaps in an expansion?
Wars have been started in my games only because I wanted to get rid of starbases, this shouldn't be necessary.

(I think the AI occasionally builds economic starbases to extent its range, by the way.)
Reply #4 Top
Yes, a "Get that starbase away from me" option would not only be nice, but is nessessary. I just love when the Yor build influence and the occasional military base in my "borders" and to get rid of them I have to war with this juggernaught that the Yor becomes in most of my games, theyed probably war with me anyway if I told them to get rid of them. Stupid robots.
Reply #5 Top
I've been in hoping for an option like that myself, for starbases and ships camping right in front of one of my planets.
Reply #6 Top
Perhaps the AI could be tweaked to recognise a demand on a starbase that is deliberately in the influence zone of your race? If so it could say something like "I know that starbase is close to your home world, but I refuse to move" or "You're right, that base is close to your world, I'll do something about it". On second thoughts I'm not sure it'd be good to have the AI react to a trade request in that manner, it would confuse trade with political requests.

Maybe a button on AI starbases you can press called "complain about this starbase", and if you pick one that's over the other side of the galaxy, the AI could wonder what you've been smoking
Reply #7 Top
Its a tactic. You cannot put more than 4 starbases per sector. They put two near some of your good planets, you can't build anymore than 2 economic starbases to aid your economy.
Reply #8 Top
I wish we could get a sticky with the common issues. Yes, everyone wants a *real* diplomacy system, rather than trade - we all want to make demands, arrange contracts, scheme and generally *communicate* with the other civilizations, rather than just sell them things. We also all hated autofocus, we hate the 'dead turn', etc etc. So make a 'common suggestions' sticky already.
Reply #9 Top
The limit isn't 4 bases per sector. It's 4 bases per race per sector.
Reply #10 Top
Not quite, Every player can put 4 starbases in a sector. If I end up with other players building economy bases in useful places around my planets, I try to trade for them. I would really love to be able to trade for mining starbases, but that is probably going a bit far. The most bases I have seen in a sector is 9, (2 econ by the terren in that sector, 1 influence by the paulos, 2 influence by the drengi, 2 influence and 2 military by me, the Yor).
Reply #11 Top
I too would love to see some kind of option to order / plead (depending on your relations) that other civilizations get out of your territory.

The fella who was talking about improving the diplomacy system also raises a fair point, I'd love being able to interact with civilizations in a manner other than the quid pro quo arrangements you come to in the game now.
Reply #12 Top
the AI also uses starbases to extend its range. if you go to war with a given empire, you can often cripple it by attacking its undefended starbases.

and i really don't understand why economy bases would be causes you issues, or even their undeveloped influences bases for that matter. a couple levels of cultural conquest, or heck a farm on your planets should be more than enough to override their influence. what you should be playing closer attaention to is if your planets have a revolt icon. i don't think i've ever seen an econ base start a revolt.

managing everything isn't supposed to be easy.
Reply #14 Top
Are you getting other war threats?

What is your military strength, does thr AI think you are a wuss?

What level difficulty are you playing at?

And finally, Mr Sovereign entity, who dare you put it with that obvious violation of yourr self defined rights! Declare waar, kick their arse and repay their insolance with an appropriate level of violance.
Reply #15 Top
Only reason I haven't gone to war is because I'm on friendly terms with three of the four, and close to achieving a diplomatic victory. Militarily, I'm the most powerful race around, but still not strong enough to simultaneously attack 4 seperate civs.

Also, Influence isn't an issue here, it's mainly the clutter is slowing down my machine, plus giving me a headache to look at. I don't understand the extending the range issue, as their freighters could reach the other side of my territory even before they built these pointless economy bases, which are located in such a manner that they're not providing any real advantage, not to mention the fact that they're only building in my territory, and not in each other's.

Even if they are doing it to expand their range, I still don't think it's fair, as if I tried to "extend my range" in their territory, they certainly wouldn't go for it.

Difficulty level is Normal.
Reply #16 Top
I'm an avid Alpha Centauri player, and the way it works there would be great here to, at least for ships. You tell them they have violated yoru territory and you want them out ASAP. If they like you\are weaker than you they comply and their units are retreated to their nearest base. If they don't like you or think you're a wuss you get "You don't tell us what to do, vendetta upon you!"

One thing though, doesn't economy starbases give a bonus to owner race's freighters in the aoe? So if they have trade with one of your planets, scattering economy starbases along the traderoute seems beneficial.
Reply #17 Top
If this happens to me I usually vote for a hefty fee on starbases from the UP, may as well get some money from it. I agree that it is an aggressive move and you should be able to deal with it someway.
Reply #18 Top
I only have other civs build lots of starbases in my territory if I let them get away with it. If you kill the first starbase built in your territory then they are less apt to build more. Of course you better be willing to go to war.
Reply #19 Top
The starbase issue hasn't come up in the UP yet, so I haven't had a chance to vote on it.

To the Freighter Bonus, that would make sense, but they're also sticking them in in large amounts around systems that have no habitable planets. The economy starbases are also completely un-upgraded, so even the ones that could potentially be getting bonuses aren't.

The ones around my home planet are especially annoying.
Reply #20 Top
what i dont like is that I have to declare war and get the diplomatic penatly of being a warmonger when someone plants a ton of ships and bases in my territory. At least make it where you don't get the penalty for declaring war when you attack someone who is squating right outside your planets (this would help the AI by penalize the players who get the AI to declare war on them by planting a transport near an AI world)
Reply #21 Top
With the all the useless starbases it seems to me that the AI is trying to get you to attack them so they will have a chance at stealing some of your planets.
Reply #22 Top
What if I, say, capture a drengin planet surrounted by thalan influence starbases. It would be crazy if I could then demand that they decomission the bases. Building up decent starbases requires a sizable amount of manufacturing power especially on maps with relatively few planets. By using this tactic I could hugely reduce the effectiveness of Thalan military production. I agree that it's pretty annoying but I don't see a way around it other than forcing players to only build near their own planets.
Reply #23 Top
We should be able to buy or trade bases also.
Reply #24 Top
I completely agree that you should be able to demand that bases/ships be removed from around your planets. They make a big deal of the fact that "the AI plays the same game as the user". Not in this case. If I park a dreadnought next to somebody's homeworld, they're gonna yell about it. I can't do the same.

I'd just be happy if parking transports next to my homeworld, which is surrounded by other people's bases, didn't trigger a declaration of war. That sort of reaction absolutely ruined a game the other day. It's even more aggravating when the message is: "You must have mistaken us for some primitive computer game....".

Well..... no, apparently it wasn't a mistake. If it can't look at a starbase and a planet and see that something is different about the two, then it is pretty stupid. Starbases simply shouldn't trigger that reaction if it can't be any smarter about it.
Reply #25 Top
Agree totally with having a "get the F*** out of my territory" option in the diplo-screen!