The AI vs. Summer

The weather improves...

http://draginol.joeuser.com/articles.asp?aid=118239

The GalCiv II team keeps working on new updates. But more and more of that coding is occurring during the spare time of the developers.  For example, I'm only budgeted to work on the game a few hours per week at this point. In effect, most of my time working on the game is during my nights and weekends.

On every Stardock game for the past several years, my job has been to manage the overall project and then come in near the end to go hard core on the parts of the game that need the most work or that I'm specialized on.  Computer AI has been my programming specialty for the last decade or so.  As a result, I typically only do serious coding on a given project during the last few months. 

Once the game is starting to come together into something that can be played as opposed to being a technology, I move from managing the project to actively programming on it. I would also fill in the gaps that our project design document didn't assign out.  On GalCiv II, for instance, I came in and wrote up most of the technology descriptions, a good chunk of the alien conversations, the ship components, planetary improvements, and much of the "data" parts.  I also wrote most of the AI for GalCiv II (except for the diplomacy screen logic which was cobbled together by eveyone and the planetary surface/improvement backend for picking out what gets built on planets).  The economics and tons of gameplay tweaks I also code on.

After the game ships, I get involved in pieces here and there. I'm like an older, uglier (but better spelling/grammar <ducks>) version of Boogiebac where I look at what I think needs to be tweaked in text or in code and does what needs to be done with a heavy bias towards AI and economics.

But at this point, it's on weekends.  There's a LOT of stuff that I have to do during the day.  Running a company is a full-time job unto itself as you might imagine.  And the 3/4ths of our business that isn't games (like Object Desktop) is getting ready for next year's release of Windows Vista.

Like many gamers and modders out there, I enjoy doing this stuff.  I like reading the forums (most of the time) and playing the game. I get ideas or spot stupid AI things and then go in and try to figure out why it did something stupid or how I can make it better.

For instance, tonight I changed the starting position code a bit so that there tends to be a bit more space between players. I also tried to improve the planetary improvemenet handling.  The original coding for planet surface stuff is expertly written but it's not my code and I have a hard time following some of it. It's also different from how I would have written it so I do my best to update it to try to be "Smarter" based on playing the game and reading posts.  I think I've gotten it so that it won't build a gagillion embassies or entertainment centers. The cause seems to be that those two types of buildings were not defined and as a result there was no limit on how many of that "kind" of building could be made. It was pretty deep in there so it took some doing. 

I also put in more code to make different players play more differently in terms of what they research, how aggressive they are, and numerous other things.  Another thing I did was change the way the AI handles bribes/gifts so that players won't necessarily (easily) just give it a bunch of goodies, crank relations up to close and ally. 

One area I think was significant improved but we'll have to wait until more players get their hands on it is in terms of strategic gameplay.  The AI tends to focus on sectors to conquer (much like a human would) but it woudl tend to focus on too many sectors still and its forces would never be focused enough to overwhelm an expert human player who was focusing their resources.

A challenge that will take more time to deal with is that the computer players have reached the level where they are plenty tough for me.  That is, unless I'm playing on a very specific setting or playing with a very specific style, the AI at higher than tough difficulties will cream me.  My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program? The AI doesn't "care" whether it loses. So if you figure out that you can some starbase/resource/ship combo or find some diplomacy trick to "Win" then knock yourself out.  But I won't be spending my summer weekends trying to "fix" something like that.

After 1.2, the update path starts to slow a little as we move towards expansion packs. There will be a 1.3 still but the development team (even now) is working on this stuff in their spare time too.  When you see a post from one of us on the weekend, don't think we're getting paid to do that.   We do it because we love the game and love you guys.  We love the community.   At the same time, I hope people realize that it is the good will and encouragement from that community that keeps these incredible updates going. 

Sometimes I see things on the forums or in email (particularly Cari's email) that are incredibly rude and come across with such an attitude of entitlement that it can really take the wind out of ones sails.  When someone makes a post like "X MUST be fixed" (where X is some trivial issue that few people care about) or a post that makes outright demands (as opposed to requests) on what "MUST" be in 1.2 or 1.3 that sort of thing is pretty grating.  I know seeing some guy on the forum saying how the "AI sucks" doesn't make me inclined to spend a sunny weekend working on it.  I mean, heck, I've been making games for 15 or so years now. And I've been playing them longer than that.  I have a decent idea of what is "good" and what is "bad".  No game is perfect. But we left "good enough" a long time ago. Someone listing out a spelling error or some UI thing they don't like or some goof one of the AI players makes on occasion is not something that "must" be fixed out of some sense of quality control.  This isn't WoW where people are paying $15 a month and hence one expects continous updates. We keep updating it because - like I said - we love the game and we love the community.  It's a labor of enjoyment/love.   We're not looking for adoration, just respect and decency.

The betas of 1.2 should still show up sometime this month. The main features of 1.2 can be listed as:

  1. UI to choose mods (such as total conversion mods)
  2. Sample mod
  3. Significant UI improvements
  4. Some AI fixes/enhancements
  5. Memory optimization
  6. New Combat system (ships fire at the same time)

I am thinking of putting in a request so that the attacker gets a 25% attack advantage for that first round so that there is still an advantage in being the attacker.

For 1.3, it'll be fairly modest tweaks and improvements.  After that, the team will be working on the expansion pack.  The art team is currently split between making cut-scenes for the expansion pack and making ship-content for an $8.95 ship component pack.  The idea is to be able to lower the cost of the expansion pack a bit.  People (like me) who love having cool looking hulls and ship parts can get those (And I've seen some early stuff, it's far better than what's in the game, the art team has really mastered how to do this stuff). And the people who don't care about the ship design stuff can skip that if they want.

115,875 views 92 replies
Reply #1 Top
Thanks for everything Brad (and team). It's really polished now. Have a great summer.
Reply #2 Top
yea, can't wait for summer vacation myself, and yes the AI is really polished, even though some tweaks remain such as the strange overspecialization behavior ppl have reported. With the new improved modding , its possible that ppl could come up with some mods to help AI issues which could later on be implemented.

GO SUMMER VACATION! hehe.
Reply #3 Top
yes, thanks for the great game, and even better support... and let me join Mike in wishing you a great summer...(hope the weather is more stable than in the UK)
Reply #4 Top
at least you guys in the UK will have somewhat cooler weather, in San Diego California where I live, it will get up to the 90's in June to August, sometimes high 90's and clear skies for most of the summer. summer is HOT over here
Reply #5 Top
the AI at higher than tough difficulties will cream me. My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program?


Brad for some reason it is the econmics in the game which make it easy to win on the level higer than tough such as painfull you are able to sometime get a stockpile of gold up and a crazy amount of income even when industrial capacity is maxed out 100% you may still have 5000 income in one week and taxes are at 30% or lower...
Reply #6 Top
All of you have done a fine job responding to us and dont let the few jerks out there ruin it for you. You have some great service to us and I persoanlly would like to thank you from the bottom of my Hull for trying to make the game as perfect as you can. The AI in no way sucks and at times seems almost to human...and at other times not. I like that...makes it more interesting. Again tell everyone thanks from me and many others who love the game and look forward to more!
Reply #7 Top
Okay Brad. I'm guilty of criticizing your AI. But I confined it to primarily 2 threads.

This update of yours hit home, so I will apologize for my part.

But I want to leave you with this:

When we play computer games, we like to escape. You have to know this as player yourself. When we see the AI build 10 embassies...or chasing a frieghter accross the map during wartime...or when the AI just won't attack regardless of what affront you throw at it...or when you can destroy an entire (advanced) AI civ without only losing more than 2 or 3 ships, it takes the player out of the moment.

If you guys can just address the glaring stuff, re-balance the conflict situation (as is slated to occur 1.2), then I think you've got a game that we can all respect.

And I'll thank you as a gamer for the time you took to write all of that out. It's probably more than what most of us deserve.

Peace out.
Reply #8 Top
Well, I for one really appreciate the extra time you all put into supporting this game.
A couple weeks ago 1 or 2 of your team was at it for a good 8 hours on a Saturday, pouring out new versions every couple hours for us to try. It really showed a dedication that can not be beat anywhere in the industry.

Keep up the good work, and don't let those few that try to stomp on your case get to you. There are those of us, many more I am sure, that think you could not be doing a better job in any way.

I am really looking forward to 1.2, especially the new combat model.
Reply #9 Top
Brad, if I ever wrote anything of the sort, please disregard. I have nothing but respect for you all, and I am in awe of the dev support. Anything I ask for, is never a command, who da hell am I anyways..

Reply #10 Top
Take a break already, you guys have long since earned one. Seriously, it was good at 1.0, better at 1.10, better still at 1.11 and if it never saw another improvement, it would still be better than most of the crappy games that get released out there, and a great number of the good and great ones too.

Don't let yourself and your team get eaten up by requests to fix things, add features, or even by your own desires. Give yourself something new to look at for a while, and after you look at things on the other side of the break you might have a few new ideas or you might even decide things are pretty damned good where they are.

As to whiners and trolls, just cancel their registrations so they can't get updates
Reply #11 Top
I've expressed it before, but it merits repetition: I love this game with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. The infatuation stage has passed... this is love. Ya'all should rest assured that the product you have conceived and continue to work on is superlative. I salute you, one and all.
Reply #12 Top
This is a great game. I really appreciate all the work you do on it, especially that which gets done outside of the budget. That's basically volunteer work for the people who love the game, and it doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated. Great work!
Reply #13 Top
ha the first posts all belonged to the hijack crew haha

great work brad and we love that you guys still love us enough to work on it in your free time, especially when you get problems like you had this weekend, and rude emails from people, im glad you realize those type of people are in the minority here and the rest of us love all your hard work. the game has been great for me, the only thing im waiting on still is the metaverse recalc to finish and settle down, then i will be happy with everything. finish up this bit of stuff and like smjjames said, go on vacation and leave us alone for awhile, once the new stuff comes out, we wont want to see you around for at least 2 weeks, maybe a month or more you deserve the break. thanks for everything
Reply #14 Top
Brad & Crew,

+1 on all the preceding praise. You folks are setting the industry standard in support and dedication to your craft, and the vast majority of us are hugely appreciative!

Although its hard, please ignore the whiners and other rude people. Small minded people feel more important when they can anonymously and safely bash others...

Have a great summer and use plenty of sunscreen!
Reply #16 Top
But, I do have one little pet peeve.


Please, for 1.12, if you would be so kind, if it's not too much trouble...


Please, please make getting the Precursor Library easier to get. I (most of us) have yet to see one.
And I want to see one. Well, at least one.
Reply #17 Top
Please, please make getting the Precursor Library easier to get. I (most of us) have yet to see one.
And I want to see one. Well, at least one.


I'll take this Brad..

You Get ONE and only ONE....
Reply #18 Top
Thank you for such a wonderful game!

I would like to see somewhere an official site for mods, with a player input based rating system, and comments section to describe them... that way the devs can get a break and the game can continue to grow for years!

Reply #19 Top
Just so I can get one. Never have as it is, so that one would be kinda nice.
Reply #20 Top
All the extra work by everyone at Stardock needs to be commended.. as for summer, well if you are staying in MIchigan for it, be prepared for humidity @ 90% for a good portion of it (good time to really work on that expansion /wink)

As for the updates, from what we have read they will deffinately add functionality and some new depth, especially the combat and your aforementioned focused agression tweaks.

speaking of combat.. one of the way's i adjusted the disparity of attacker weapons-heavy overkill was simply to triple all ships base HP, although the AI *seemed* to value the smaller ship sizes a bit more in doing so, the over all effect helped as the attacker was less likely to kill off the defenders fleet in one salvo, and it made the huge type ships truely seem.. well.. huge. with that being said, the automatic return fire in 1.2 should make / force folks to consider defenses more as well.
Reply #21 Top
Thanks Frogboy:

I think I've gotten it so that it won't build a gagillion embassies or entertainment centers. The cause seems to be that those two types of buildings were not defined and as a result there was no limit on how many of that "kind" of building could be made. It was pretty deep in there so it took some doing.]/quote]



My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program?


Thanks for the hard work. That should make the AI more competitive.

Maybe the expereince of battling the AI is related to the map size.

Have you considered that most of your games have been on the smaller or medium maps with only a few opponents. That makes for a manageble evening game and seems to be , understandably the game you have played most of because of time.

But many of us Galciv2 addicts are now playing games more epic in scope on large or huge or gigantic maps. I have been playing on large maps, but I am going to try those more epic sized maps. MAybe the Maso AI is easier on larger maps or just different.

My current Maso game the AI is quite competitive on production but not very aggressive in attacking.

Perhaps you could try them or look at the posts for those maps to see how the AI reacts differently there.

Can't wait for the beta!
Reply #22 Top
Thanks for all the fish. It has to be a labor of love. There will always be unforseen problems, unexpected consequences from any fix. There is no way to test the game on all map sizes, all difficulties, all the different options (tech trading on/off, lots of planets, few planets, lots of races, 5 races, 3 races. There are just too many permutations to look at and keep humans in the loop. Weird stuff, even really weird stuff will still show up with 1.2, but it is expected, not unexpected. So kudos for the all the hard work.


Reply #23 Top
Amen to the comments about "good enough." I get so frustrated when playing other (major) games coming out these days all fail to meet the high standards of polish that an indie game like GC 2 establish. And it is even stranger to see people on these forums ranting about this and that minor feature that isn't perfected or up to their lofty standards. Those people either need to get used to the idea that no game can be perfect or just try and organize(and finance) their own perfect game and see how far they get. Not very far, I bet.
Reply #24 Top
Well, folks, I enjoy playing GalCiv2. I'm glad Stardock put it out. Slim pickens otherwise. So, since you're feeling a little unloved, Brad, Thank You! For myself, I see little need for further updates. The game seems complete to me. Updates are your form of 'copy protection', so maybe there's a little need. I wouldn't know. I think we've all been in forums long enough to know that online communities sometimes get overwrought and posters sometimes get a little full of themselves. Tone is just tone, after all. Somebody had to be raised in a barn, right?
Reply #25 Top
+1 to an attack advantage, though I'd say do not allow it for planets.

As for the cut-scenes or ship hulls idea- honestly, I wouldn't be interested in either one. Cut-scenes tend to get skipped after the first time you see them, and ship hulls don't really add anything to the gameplay, which is the area I want improved in the expansion (though gameplay and AI are certainly great as is, and I definitely feel I got more then my money's worth)

I'd rather see more buildings and more options for ships. Stuff like espionage, the healing/draining ships from GC1.

One thing I'd really, REALLY like you to add- political events similar to EU2.