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NEED MORE AI AGGRESSION

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NEED MORE AI AGGRESSION

from GalCiv2 Forums
My first Post. Love the potential of this game.

But the AI is not nearly aggressive enough.

DEVELOPERS: I have played 4 games now (my first and only 4 games) that I have simply abandoned by 2230 because the AI fleets are no challenge and mopping up the glaxy becomes laborious, tedious and repetitive. All I want is a game that forces me to research far enough along the tech tree so I can see some of the late game ships/weapons. Where's the challenge guys?

I am extremely happy that ver. 1.2 will have the other side firing back regardless during fleet battles. That's a good start. But it's JUST a start.

I play HUGE maps, 8 or 9 opponents, NO Tech trading. AI intelligence = gifted (econ = 125% of normal).

I have never needed to build military starbases.
I have never seen a Dread Lord ship (is that because my games are over before 2230 ends???)
I have never seen a HUGE hulled ship

I have all the save game files you could ask for to verify these representations - just ask.

You don't even have to build a military!!!! The AI won't attack you! WHERE'S THE FEAR AND TENSION OF A CATOSTROPHIC EARLY STRIKE?!?

The early game is only marginally interesting IF you're neighbouring the Drengin. Otherwise, just take your time teching-up. Then come out with 5-6 elite fleets (whenever you are ready) and wipe everything out.

I'm not bagging on the game. I see the potential. The framework is there. Just make the game more perilous! Tone down the diplomacy impacts.

!!!!Make the AI build better defenses on their ships!!!!
!!!! MAKE THE AI UPGRADE THE CRAP OUT OF THEIR STARBASES!!! I am tired of seeing the map littered with starbases that don't have ONE SINGLE module attached.

PLEEEAAAAASSSDSDSwEE!!!!!
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Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I recently also played a game on masochistic, I had a poop start position, no tech trading, medium galaxy i think. The AI waayyyyy out teched me (first game on that skill level) and I was Yor so after 30 or 40 turns 2 civs gang up on me for being evil with a weak military, Im done right? wrong The Terrans declare war and dont do a single thing, The Iconions declare war, and after about 10 turns I see a single fleet of heavy fighters picking off star bases. The funny thing is, the Terrans then make peace with me on even terms, though they waaayy out class me in every aspect of the game. I remember they said something like other things needed their attention.

I dont see why this happens. Even if the AI doenst go for the win persay, shouldnt they see lightly/poorly defended worlds and take the opprotunity? I couldnt have struck back If I wanted to. This is an extreame case, but I do find this behavior in other games to a lesser extent, as Ive mentioned before.
Ill try games with loose clusters or scattered stars and see how that works.
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Having the aggression level randomly determined would have been a great modification for Galactic Civ I. In that game every opponent with an edge on you was instantly aggressive. It was great. You were scraping and panicking the whole game, and when you would lose every one of your planets would be wiped out. But, after a while, it got to be almost too stressful to start that early game because you knew you'd be fighting for your life. A little luck factor on the aggression would give different games that "just sneaked by" or "oh crap" feeling.

This game is quite a bit more peaceful, except for the Drengin. If there were an "AI Aggression" slider on, I would definitely turn it high up and turn the difficulty level down to Crippling, because I have hardly any experience with building fleets and at Masochistic I feel like I'd lose in a second if anybody actually bothered to declare war on me. (Large; 2 games, v1.1, little turtling).

Is it the aggressiveness of each individual civ that's randomized, or is it like "This will be a peaceful/wartorn universe" from day 1? The first might be better, to give a mix.

Edit @apoc527:
The only reason other games might be harder on their highest difficulty is that the AI is cheating even more heavily than the AI in GalCiv2 cheats at the higher difficulties.

Did GalCiv I Masochistic cheat harder than GalCiv II Masochistic? It sure felt harder.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Playing on medium or smaller sized maps, scattered systems, uncommon star systems (sometimes rare), and always have the Drengin around. I've had games where I get completely overwhelmed by aggressive militaries in those maps, and only through clever manipulation can I survive.

I once watched the Drengin swarm my territory with such fury that it was like watching a player. They came in, destroyed every ship and starbase in their paths, and then that same turn troop transports appeared. Within a few turns I've lost my entire fleet, and about 1/4 of my planets. It was indeed beautiful to lose so badly. I reloaded that game (I save every game I start on the very first turn) and tried again, this time I won via diplomatic manipulations. "I'll give you these shiney jewels and these tastey slaves mister Drengin if you kill the Terrans." "Oh boy, slaves!"

That game was only set to Challenging too.

Anywho, go small map sizes if you want more intense games!
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I played on the hardest difficulty on a tiny galaxy with all races. I played humans, and I'm not a very good GC2 strategist yet. The AI completely wiped the floor with me, establishing massive trading routes and threatening me when their borders wanted to push in to mine.

Then I tried it again on the largest galaxy size... and the AI hardly cared. I was able to do a lot more and get a lot further. I haven't really bothered to finish that game because it was taking too long, but the AI seemed much more passive.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree that the AI lacks a long-term gameplan. It really needs to decide at the start what kind of win it's going to go for. Right now they play like they're planning to last forever, not actually win the game, which means the challenge just isn't there. They make turn by turn decisions, but don't look much beyond that.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is my first post here, so I wish first of all to thank Frogboy and all the people from SD for their dedication to the gamers....

Unfortunately I should agree with the most of the comments here, the AI is definetively too passive, at least for a 40 y.o. Grognard

I managed to "OVER-leading" my first game (10 times stronger than any other AI "intelligent-level" opponents in all realms after a few years) because I red and applied a few "begginers-guides" found here, at wiki and at others forums.

So how to improve it ?

1) Create a sticky thread or even better a subforum where people can comment and suggest new improvement for AI algorithms (this works fairly well in Paradox games community)

2) Put us at work !!

For instance ask to skilled players (the ones leading the Metaverse ladder maybe) to write the "template building list" for the Race they know the best, this "template" should differentiate among PQ (PQ<6 has one, PQ<12 another, etc), Map conditions (dimensions, planetary abbundancy, numbers of opponents, etc) and among Victory conditions.
Then ask them to write similar "template tecnology research" which differs according to Map conditions (bigger maps = more sensor and engine) again and Victory conditions.
Add an adjustable Aggression setting which you already mentioned and adjust this according to your internal and/or beta testing....et voilà le tour c'ést joué !!
EDIT: it seems that map dimensions and starting abbundance of resources are the faremost "peacekeeping" factor which you should take care of.

Have a nice day and sorry for my English. Amadeus
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hmm, in regard to the posters statement that diplomatic impacts should be toned down - I don't think that's the problem - I think they should be toned up and modeled a little better. For example, if tech trading is on - how much tech trading are the AI's doing with each other? They should be doing just as much of it as I am trying to do if not more. Another example of poor diplomacy is in war - winning a diplomatic victory should be difficult. If I'm winning against a computer opponent it should be doing everything in it's power to level the playing field - finding every ally it can convincing them to go against me. What would be interesting would be if the diplomatic model could be expanded to allow for more subterfuge. I.e. Say I'm out teching and outgoing Civ X - being Allied with Civ Y against it. Civ X should be trying to see if they can buy off Civ Y against me. They should also be trying to get as many other people against me as possible to get themselves an advantage.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
My prevous game was in large uni, common everything, 9 AIs on masochistic, no randomization.

You'd need to see how fast was the attack of my southern neighbour Drengin, when they declared war on me, to belive they weren't played by a live player. Timeframe: mid.game - weapons at attack ~3-4, warp drive+, ~25 logistic,~40 miniaturization, large hull available.

Turn x: war declaration.
Turn x+1: two fleets of 6 FFs (mass attack 15, speed 10) and some lone FFs entered my space and started destroying my econ starbases.
Turn x+2: three more FF fleets entered my space, initial FFs got to my core planets destroying everything. A first trasport hit my outmost planet, closest to Drengin.
Turn x+3: more transports poured in, planet closest to Drengin lost. I lost two just produced defensive large ships in orbits of two of my planets. One got a chance to fire back and destroyed one of the attacking FFs.
Turn x+4: there was not turn x+4, I reloaded from previous autosave. I know when I'm beaten.

Here's my advice: if you want an aggressive game, start game in smaller, more crowded universes - 5-10 planets per player.

BR, Iztok

Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well I find that the ai is always agressive with me. I play on large maps tight clusters 6 ai on challenging, and they always are going for my territory. Also this could be because I like to ally with all of the minor races and defend thier homeplanets from the agression of the major races. For some reason the major races love to wipe these guys out. I suggest you try that approach one game, always keeps me on my toes.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This must be a non-campaign issue, becuase the Dread Lords are wiping the floor with me (and all the other races) in the campaign - and I've yet to push the difficulty above Normal.

I do think that map size may have a role to play in how soon you encounter resistence and to what degree. The more limited the resources, the more urgent the need to get/fight for them. That's my experience, at least on Normal mode.
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't think that size of a map plays role at how agressive AI races are. I play all my games at huge maps,and AI behavior changes depending on what race you play, your diplomacy rating,size of your fleet,and events.I played with Yor few games,with Altarians and Drengin near me, in short all games were starting with Altarians declaring war to me, and Drengin asking money for their "peace eforts",if answer to Drengin was positive, I had only Altarians to deal with,if I refused.. you know what Drengin are good at ... Any way you can try to make whole universe hate you if you have lower diplomacy, strong influence,reject al humanitarian help-"what ? 1200bc and Plasma weapons?!!! Go ask someone else!! ",smaller fleet(i agree with Citizen Precursor10 - AI fleets are no match), be bad ask money from them,make a trade embargo,and you'll see they'll come!!!! Just don't overdo it ,
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It seems so far like smaller maps, medium and below are better. I remember that in Age of Empires a Gigantic map fooled the AI since it presumed it was playing on a normal map.

True too that I go for the diplomatic translators and go for a high diplomacy early. I also go for the Eyes of the Universe. Possibly that is what is making the AI passive against me. My high diplomacy. When I "did" build embassies the AI would not like that. So perhaps I unwittingly toned down the AI's aggression myself. Also, pardon for my saying "the AI needs work" and not being more specific. Thanks.
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
OUCH!

I posted ealier this week on this thread thinking the ai needed to be more agressive. I usually played on painfull, large map, 9 ai. I've since played a couple of games, MEDIUM map with 5 ai (3 evil, one neutral and 1 good) These settigs created very hostal galaxies which were very fun to play. (ended up loosing 2 of these games) I'm realizing how flexible gal civ2 really is, and the importance of game settings in which reflect heavely on the type of game you play, wether passive or aggressive or both.

From a gamer who was completely WRONG!

Hope you see this Brad...
Thanks.
Reply #39 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I played a Medium one and got worried because people were Hostile to me, but then I saved it, c ut off my two trade routes with them, and changed my alignment to the opposite of theirs and they never attacked. I did have allies, maybe thats why. I'm just going to go play the scenario where you're at war right from the start.
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I play medium maps primarliy but I do go gigantic etc occasionally and I agree I never have as much trouble / war / loss on the gigantic maps. But with other game sizes from the sounds of things here I must be playing a different game!

On the medium maps it is carnage on all but a handfull of occasions! The AI resource starbases typicall have 16/3/3 att near the early game (when I am still using small hulls) so I cant go near them. The Thalans in my last game had ships with 12 moves even in fleets, mine were just 6. I was none-the-less wiping the floor with them but by the time I had encroached on their core systems their new fleets out of space dock had 16 moves (!), a mediocre defense to my main weapon type and had manage to include a new weapon type (missile) in their att that I didnt have any def for (I assume they traded it). They forced me to retreat and redesign.

Usually on a medium map with 6 tough AI there are 2 or 3 wiped out before I even consider offensive action (by then I am usually next!!). I rarely have the "strongest" military so am always getting threats and demands and eventually war.
Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
maybe the ai should get more agressive as the game goes on
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
what i have noticed that i think really hurts the AI (i've been playing painful difficulty) is that the AI never seems to tech up troops. So, i think the reason they don't win planets (even fighting each other) is that they drop these 1000 troop transports with absolutely no tech ups and don't do much damage. I know that i routinely take out 18,000B AI planets with one 2000B trasport. I dont even bother defending my planets as my basic planets almost always have higher tech than the attacking AI and wipe the map with the sporatic 1K transports
Reply #43 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My actual game is at "thougt" difficulty, and the A.I. is really agressive. I'm playing on a large map, with 7 civilization.
I'm playing the Yor and I've been at war 80% of the time with my neighbour, the thalan.
Now the arcean empire and altarian has destroyed my unique ally, the dominion of korx while the drengin surrendered(???) to the iconians. I almost destroyed thalan but the two super power are going against me... hehe
As normally, the Drath sucks and are doing nothing.

No more A.I. agression, that's enough
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
in the last three games i was in, on huge maps, the AI has been a pushover militarily. last game i had a civilization declare war on me, with a much higher military rating, who just ended up sending endless troop transports to die to my fleet. the AI needs work.
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah this is a problem with most of the XXX games.

The only one that I found sufficiently challenging and fun was Master of Orion III ONLY AFTER heavy community modding where they made the Orions an expanding race. For those who have not played MOO 3, the Orions are the 'Dreadlord' equivalent super race. Boy, those games were fun... basically it ended up with me, one decent normal race and the Orions in huge galaxies fighting it out with gigantic fleets.

I must say the resource model in GalCiv is cleaner and nicer to manage but the modded MOO 3 games were sure fun in terms of challenge and fleet battles. I also think the combat model there (again after heavy modding) was better as it was not as simplistic, thus it doesn't easily reward building large fleets of small ships with high attack values.

So maybe we should look to the modders for some hope...
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The AI in MOO II and Federation and Empire seemed to do a decent job of bringing the war to you. Another favorite of mine is VGA Planets and its AI was awesome. My experiences with this game don't suggest that the Ai is too easy. My experience is wthat when I set the difficulty high the AI is both aggressive and cheats alot. I assume it probably has alot to do with what races you play against and other settings such as map size and planet abundance.

The cheating that the AI does is very annoying, however. While I am still vainly trying to get some basic tech established, I am usually bombarded by messages from the AI contriolled Empires telling me that they have built Manufacturing Capitals and Galactic Wonders. They are building CAPITALS while I am building FACTORIES.

Also.... if I am placed close to the Drenjin (sp) I will usually be quickly attacked and invaded and my colonizing phase disrupted.
Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I only have one AI line-of-thought comment. I've told it long ago already, but what the hell.

Even when there are multiple strong civs and you are weak, everybody wants a piece of you. Right now I'm kinda weak and almost everybody declared war on me, although there are others much more threathening.

What I would want to see is that when a civ has a serious contester it tries to USE your civ to help it destroy that contester. Declaring war on you and attacking you is usually quite a draw on resources - and if I were that contester, I'd sieze the moment and attack. That's when it's most vunerable. So a better way would be to try and get your help with destroying the contester. Since the civ is bigger than you it will get more of the contester's planets and come out even bigger and (both absolutely and relatively to you) stronger. I know I would definitely try to pull smaller civs to help me fight a bigger one rather than attacking the smaller ones and be left open to an attack from the stronger contester.

If one civ is totally prevailing, than definitely it will attack the smallest enemy while guarding it's back against the rest...
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It would be nice if the computers coordinated better with each other. For instance, if the Drengin and Yor bothhad poor relations with you, but you were stronger than each of them individually, they might both declare war at the same time.

Computers could also come to you with things like 'We will attack the Drengin if you attack the Drengin'.
Reply #49 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Got the same problem on crippling difficulty... Usually large map, tight clusters, not too many stars but some planets and common habitable ones. 5-6 opponents. Getting war declared on me? Now that's tough. Even if I *do* get some super aggressive race to declare on me when I'm still undefended, I've yet to see them attack me *fast*. It takes ages for the AI to send a fleet and transports, I can usually respond very easily to a war declaration. But usually I just take my time until I'm ready, get the right techs, build up my fleet and then knock the hell out of the race that declared on me, afterwards proceeding to wipe pretty much any race I please...

But what annoys me most is that AIs barely scratch each other too when they war. I read Frogboy's journals, they seem so darn nice - aggressive civilizations absorbing smaller ones etc etc... I've yet to see that happen. There's plenty of AI wars but they're the same like mine - computer declares war and then just does nothing. Or there's a couple of small skirmishes but no planet sieges.
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh, and another thing - never have I payed tribute to any race... And what happens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's not like they ever declare war on me right away for that.