Poor Drengin

the evil races should ally together against the good and make grand alliances...

The Altarians seem to play similarly against the evil races, but somehow they don't get wiped out easily.

Evil races are too evil to cooperate properly. As they say, there is no honur among thieves.

Unfortunately, for some reason, Altarians are classified as a "good" race, despite the fact that their behaviour is closer to "Chaotic Evil".

anyone noticed the blue thing on their face that altarians have ? mark of satan i say

Altarians arn't evil

Just because you are militiristic that does not make you evil. I picture the Altarians as Crusaders or Inquisitor's of sort. Completely blinded by their goodness and dogma. They are, in fact, the closest thing to a "pure good" society (as defined by AD&D).

The Drengin and Yor do need some help. It's not the good races that pummel them, but the neutral races that join in. Neutral should be just that.. Neutral. They provide support to both sides, but unfortunately, this never happens.

i dunno the game i'm playing now I'm altarian and i'm on my Jihad against the drengin but only between tree hugging sessions and only after we smoke the pipe. Anyhow about 60% of the ships i am coming up against are Thalan ships. The thalans are mass supplying the drengin with ships which i think is a really cool thing. Pain in da butt though because my fleets are geared for facing drengin Mass Drivers with defences well over 200 per fleet the damn missiles on the thalan ships are ripping through my fleets.

A race can be neutral and not intially engage in hostillities towards good or evil..but perhaps the neutral races are having war declared on them or are responding because they are allied with someone who has been attacked. The "true Neutral" from AD&D would be very hard to implement as a race. While some like Switzerland and others have successfully done it for quite a few years, it makes you wonder though if they were fully invaded how they would respond. In my games, I have had no trouble with neutrals..I tend towards good though and make allys of them..while going to war with the evil. I have yet to have a neutral up and attack me. I have also played with the Drengin and had no probs with the neutrals either..though the good races did tend to not like me much!

Lots of times, with 1.1 giving me the info, I see the Arceans going on a war path against the evil races. It's a pain, because I've yet to see an evil race really amass a powerful Empire that required races to band together and stop.

after 1.1 there are alot of tweeks needed to fine tune the game.. but it is a large improvement over 1.0x


the game is really good though... it has some ways to go... but it is good/fun

Yep, Drengins always get sacked pretty early in the game and its always the damned Torians who remain standing strong and shiney when the dust settles. I have experienced no game so far that turned out otherwise.

I've never seen the Torians do well, not in the late game. They expand quickly at the beginning, but in my experience they seem to fall behind on tech and then get swamped by more advanced civs (often me, but not always).

The Drengi do seem to be too evil for their own good though. Although I think that depends a lot on what the player is doing. I find that the civs that survive tend to be the ones with the same alignment as me (counting Good and Neutral as a single alignment). This is because if I'm good/neutral, I'll usually be killing the evil civs first, and if I'm evil, I'll be distracting the good/neutral civs from attacking the other evils. Maybe it's because I tend to wage war depending on my personal alignment.

I suspect that evil civs would fare better with less opponents, but I haven't really tested this.

Well in my latest game the Drengins are winning the war between vs me and the torians. I'm not sure I can recuit more allies for the fight since they have a military rating of 400 when mine is 70 and the second highest is 150. It sucks that I have like 8 allies and only 1 will help me vs the Drengins. Looks like I'll have to make peace.

I'm playing my first galatic size game (3rd game overall, the others were small maps with 3-5 oppoents under 1.0x) with 9 oppoents under normal difficulty and in my game, the Torians were the first race to surrender. Drengins is now 3rd in the rankings, was like 7th before. I guess it helped that my starting position as Terrans was on the far side of the Drengins so haven't had to fight a war with them yet. But I'm looking forward to it...

I one of the early Campaign missions (or was it a stand-alone?), the Drengin and I were warring. I had expanded pretty quickly, not building up adequate defenses for each planet I took. Their military prowess showed through and they pushed me back to two planets.

I was barely hanging in there, managing to get a defensive ship built every turn or two and repel any invasion attempts. All the while I was researching my butt off. When I finally got to a certain level of military tech, the tables turned and suddenly the Drengin were on the run from my Medium level warships. I took back all the planets and surrounded their homeworld until I had enough troops to invade.

They wound up surrendering and robbing me of a glorious end to my conquest. Ah, well, good times.

Now, if only I could do the same against the frickin' Dread Lords! Wars of attrition do NOT work against them.

Dreadlords suck butt.

Anyway, in the two sandbox games that I've played, I've always been situated next to the Drengin, out of NINE other opponents. The first one was a medium map, and they were peaceful for a while... but since I hadn't built up too many defenses yet, they declared war on me. They surrounded my outer planets and I just got tired and handed all of my planets over to the Torians. The second, and current, game I'm playing is on a large or gigantic map, one of those two. I thought I would be relatively safe and have time to take it easy, but then I noticed a tiny red dot flash by on the minimap. I went in to confirm and yes... I was right next to the Drengin... again. They haven't been that bad this time around though. That may have something to do with the Altarians who have a whopping 50+ planets right next to us. The Drengin were at war with them and the Iconians for a while, but after having their fleets decimated and losing planets and starbases, they negotiated a peace treaty. No race has been knocked out yet. Once these cache crashes are cleared up, I should be able to finish this game much faster.

the mark of satan. rofl this is hilarous to read. I hope your not one of thoses crappy believers from southern usa.


By the way, in 4 games I played, only 1 of them the drengin were not a threat to anyone. (korx destroyed them)

In all other games, they are always superior, in war technology and size of empire.

well if you remember from AP (Altarian Prophecy) The altarians were made by the human-like (i forgot his name) and forced the Drath to pack up and git. I've always wondered what the marks ment though...

I digress. usually the bigest races in my games are the torians and Arceans. I fixed that by going in to raceconfig.xml and giving the drengin (and arcean, to simulate a galactic rivalry) 200% Pop growth, social, military, and research production, 50% Trade bonus, 40% Defence and Attack bounus, and 60 logistics bonus. Then i playec a maso game...

only between tree hugging sessions and only after we smoke the pipe

Your confused, this is common Torian behaviour, the hippie, free loving race of the galaxy.

The Altarians i think of as the Vorlons of the galaxy out of Babylon 5, absolute Lawful Good, to the extent they will crusade against any that dare disagree with them.

I am currently playing some pacifist party, Torians, i have the Dominion, Drengin and Yor as my 3 neighbours (oh joy) on suicide level (it might be for the Torians). The one thing that the Dominion, Drengin and Yor all agree on completely is they hate my Torian guts. Where are the Altarians when i need them? The other side of the bloody galaxy (sigh).

Now, if only I could do the same against the frickin' Dread Lords! Wars of attrition do NOT work against them.

They do, but i would not recommend them, my longest game ever was the apocalypse scenario, a real war of attrition against the dreadlords. Two and a half week slugfest, where i tried to go toe to toe vs the dreadlords, it was murder! Finally got black hole weapon when i conquered one of there planets. Which swung the war in my favour.

I've always thought of the Vorlons as lawful netural, not lawful good. After all they were quite willing to use telepaths as cannon fodder when it suited them to.

I've always thought of the Vorlons as lawful netural, not lawful good.

The Vorlons were an enigma, supposedly Lawful Good (they appeared as angels remember, who virtually r always considered LG). I was a big Babylon 5 fan and loved the mysterious, secretive Vorlons.

Consider this, the reason given in the series they appeared as angels to all the younger races, was that they had visited the homeworlds of all the races and changed there DNA (when they were at a primitive evolutionary stage) so that any Vorlon would be viewed as an angel or equivalent by all the younger races. Thus those races would view the Vorlons as the good guys automatically and side with them against the shadow.

Also when the Centuria 'sided' with the shadow, the Vorlons were perfectly prepared to blow the Centuria homeworld (deathstar style) away, in order to get rid of the shadow presence on that world. Even though 90% of the centuria were innocent of any wrong doing.

So the Vorlon alignment is open to alot of debate. A bit like the Altarians in GC 2!

Maybe it's changed since 1.0, but I've seen the Drengin grow vastly powerful before. Believe me, you won't pity them after you see what they can do with a few dozen worlds in their infrastructure.

They knocked off the Altarians, then the Torians, then Drath, then the Iconians. All of them surrendered their worlds to the Drengin, rather than to someone else. Then they came for me (followed not long after by the Arceans, who wanted to grab some of my planets before the Drengin got them). That the was the first time I lost a game and it was pretty educational.