You need at least ONE farm, but the key point to note is that farms *don't* speed up population growth.... For most part, all I need xenofarms, and when my larger colonies hit the 10Billion mark, i get the next tech level in farms which is pretty cheap to research anyway (but remember to turn off autograde, most planets don't need super teched up farms). I've never seen the need for 2 farms though. Much more efficent to just tech upgrade the one farm. Certainly I get planets with 2 or more bonus food tiles, I just use one of them for farming, and treat the rest as normal tiles. I almost never do that for other bonus tiles.... Except maybe the approval ones... For low PQ planets, you don't really need farms as much because their top population caps at a low value, and you probably don't build economy improvements there anyway, so population is moot anyway.

Yea, no kidding i didnt imply they sped up population growth only that they increased the population cap and some players dont know how to manage morale as larger population sizes have a increasingly large negative effect to moral to simulate overcrowding (i believe its capped at 25bil).

If youve got a 100% bonus to food production tile and dont put a farm on it you are effectively wasting an additional tile. And its far more profitable far more profitable to have 2 farms and 8 stock markets rather than 1 farm and 9 stock markets. You should be aiming for populations in excess of 20bil and ideally around 30bil+ for income generating planets. Ie on Quality 10+ planets depending upon bonuses available.

Yea, no kidding i didnt imply they sped up population growth only that they increased the population cap and some players dont know how to manage morale as larger population sizes have a increasingly large negative effect to moral to simulate overcrowding (i believe its capped at 25bil). [/Quote] Okay. The main problem is homeworlds, where you load them up with industrial buildings, toss one tile for farming and upgrade that when necessary, while they keep growing and growing after the colonising stage... And before you know it, they are damn unhappy. Then it's time to mine some morale resources... [Quote] If youve got a 100% bonus to food production tile and dont put a farm on it you are effectively wasting an additional tile.

Well for higher PQ planets you definitely need at least 1 tile for farming, so sure, put it on the bonus tile. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to not do this. Unless it doesn't matter already. And it goes without saying that you want to earn big $$$ you better watch population caps and morale.

And its far more profitable far more profitable to have 2 farms and 8 stock markets rather than 1 farm and 9 stock markets. You should be aiming for populations in excess of 20bil and ideally around 30bil+ for income generating planets. Ie on Quality 10+ planets depending upon bonuses available.

I guess it all depends on your strategy. I seldom get past 25 billion (and i'm at 100% approval + racial bonuses to pop) because it is game over by then on a medium map.
That's why I don't have such a big deal about worrying about 30 billion+ planets. I never ever build more than 1 farm, not that I wouldn't if it calls for that, but I've never seen it happen to worry about it.

Anyway Bigger PQ planets tend to be full of splendid soils (300%), a lot of times I get 2 or more in a single planet. or 1 tile with 100% , 1 tile with 300%, then i ignore the former, though of course, i won't build on it, if i have a choice.

With one tile alone at the highest farming levels(you should have this if you are doing stockmarkets) I can support up to 30 billion!

The point is you are definitely going to buld less farms compared to, economy related, industry or research buildings, and most times you need only 1 farm, unless you are on a big map, and/or are using some insane race cusomised for pop growth.

I've never reached 30 bil+ level, because on medium maps, you are winning like crazy already by then, so worrying about 30 billion level colonies is highly theortical for me.

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I have a beef with the Secret Police HQ. Is it just me, or is this evil "Super Project" trumped by a standard improvement "virtual reality center" that gives 3X the bonus??? Police HQ gives 20% morale, VR center gives 60% morale and you can build multiples. Now if the 20% is empire wide it would make sense, but the description says only on its planet. Also, the propaganda center IS useless, 4 bc maintenence for 10% loyalty... a cultural exchange center is better for counter influence (and U.P. votes on the side) for less cost than 4 bc.

I'm a big fan of Stock Markets. You need money for everything else. The influence and morale bonuses are just extras, but they're nice to have.

Ground defense buildings are horrible.

Insane race customized for pop growth? Yeah...that'd be me. What's not to like about it? It's cheaper per percentage to max out the pop growth, and more people= better ground defenses, more attackers to throw at somebody, and most importantly, more taxpayers! If they start getting restless, take 5 or 10 bil, package them into transports, and find somebody to drop a present on. The people left behind are happier and you just got yourself a new planet!

Actually I have done those kind of races too. It's way too easy to just kill them with your economy and population... Pretty boring, and I don't even build stock markets!!

Star democracy et al, give me all the economy bonus I need really. Once I start getting profits of over 1K per turn, with spend rate at 100%., approval at >80%, I don't really borther much with economy, I start up the war machine.... Again I play with medium maps, the impression i get is most of you guys play with much bigger maps

it is a lot more challenging and fun on large+ maps with abundant everything:- the more cash/planets the ai get to play with the more efficient they become. I would play on gigantic but my poor computer slows down way to much to appreciate the game. I cannee get more power captain

thanks for the population information 'iztok bitenk'. i'm gonna start using them yellow tiles from now on. yeeha! mo monee for meee!!!!

hooray for farms, they get my vote too!

on another note though, i think that for the increase in production versus cost/time to build etc: manufaturing centres
are better than the industrial sector.

I think the best improvement is obvious, yet taken for granted how powerful it is, and how dead you'd be if you couldn't build it


Starports

With regards to people using high populations to get better tax revenue.

I tried this tactic on a recent game (+30% morale, +30% econ). I used the farming bonus tiles and the morale bonus tiles to try get 25B pop planets, and had enough VR centers to (what I thought) would have kept the approval rating high. However this did not work out well. Once the population hit around 20B, I needed 5 VR centers to keep the people happy. My tax rate was at 69%, so I lowered it to raise the approval in hopes that the increased population would offset the lowered tax rate.

I found out that it was simply better to have 15B planets at 100% approval rating and 69% tax rate, with loads of Stock Markets and not a single VR center, rather than having larger planets with lots of VR centers and less Stock Markets. At 69% tax rate, and 15B pop, I was getting an additional 50BC per turn per stock market. That's significant. On a PQ20+ planet, I could have upwards of a dozen stock markets, and be raking in cash (with a morale resource or two).

I'll try the higher pop planets again in a smaller universe so the turns can go by quicker for growth, and give some numbers. Huge galaxies take a short while to get by one turn.

Why the heck do you need tax rates to be so high at 69%?

You need to build up your economy, I recommend going for Star federation, you will be rolling in dough, even with amazingly low tax rates.

it is a lot more challenging and fun on large+ maps with abundant everything:- the more cash/planets the ai get to play with the more efficient they become. I would play on gigantic but my poor computer slows down way to much to appreciate the game. I cannee get more power captain

Larger maps I think are easier to player for the human player. Because you have more space to develop slowly, consolidate and put your plan into play.

Try playing medium or small maps with 9 opponents, it's wild! Forget any pre-game strategy, it's quite luck dependent, you have to adapt, sometimes you start off in a horrid posiiton and have to fight to surive from turn 1.

Just a quick question...Almost no one mentioned Research Buildings, why is that? Are they just mediocre or is there something wrong with them? I tend to build about 2 on a PQ 12 planet. I'll dedicate some of the PQ5 planets to pure research also.

Maybe I'm shortchanging my enonomy (sorry for the pun) by doing this?

Well I gotta say that for us Pacifists playing on Masochistic+ the Spin Control Center has gotta be the trump building. Pretty nice when you can maintain a military that is 1/5 the actual power of the top military race. I just won a Medium Size 9 player map on Masochistic in which I only possessed 3 planets (2x10 1x8) and never fought a single battle. Ive found that the real challenge is just staying under the radar until ya can build the wonder- then the game is basically over.

Larger maps I think are easier to player for the human player. Because you have more space to develop slowly, consolidate and put your plan into play.

In one of Frogboy's journals, he remarked that the AI did better when it had more planets to work with (so he was stressing the AI by playing a smaller map with few planets). So I'd presume that a large map would typically have more habitable planets, which should benefit the AI.

Just a quick question...Almost no one mentioned Research Buildings, why is that? Are they just mediocre or is there something wrong with them? I tend to build about 2 on a PQ 12 planet. I'll dedicate some of the PQ5 planets to pure research also.

A bunch of people mentioned a research building - the Neutrality Learning Center (aka "Museum of Pain" ). It's the best research building available (+2 compared to research spheres, but only available for neutral aligned races). It's also easier to tech up to than the research spheres.

I tend to make around 1/4 to 1/5 of my planets into research centers, but usually those planets will still get a batch of factories so they can crank out the research buildings more quickly. Then once the planet's full, I switch some of the factories to research also.

Why the heck do you need tax rates to be so high at 69%? You need to build up your economy, I recommend going for Star federation, you will be rolling in dough, even with amazingly low tax rates.

The reason I go with such high tax rates is twofold:

1) Lower PQ and population colonies pretty much always have 100% approval. I crank up the tax rate to maximize the revenue:approval ratio of each planet. If 90% of my planets are at 100% approval, in effect, I am creating wasted morale with a lower tax rate. I milk every penny I can from colonies and keep them happy.

2) I do use the higher government types ASAP. Coupled with the increased economy bonus from the better government, I can amass a huge pool of reserve cash. Using this pool, when I decide to make my offensive actions, I can easily and quickly create cutting edge fleets in short amounts of time by simply buying the newly designed ships by the dozen.

When I am in the middle of my colony rush, I am usually looking at an incredible surplus of money. This allows me to either continue to expand, and buy lots of techs from other races, or simply start pooling up my money. The extra cash flow also aids in quickening my social project buildup by at least a few weeks.

It's also nice to be able to flat out buy trade goods and super projects, rather than spending the weeks and production points to build them, and instead use them to either solidify my economy, or start/continue military production.

This additional revenue also helps me maintain larger fleets. With 20 or so colonies at 15B pop a piece, generating on average 350BC per turn at 69% tax rate, my tax income alone is 7k BC. Add in trade and tourism and I'm sitting around 7.5-8k. If I nab economy resources... well, then my economy just really takes off.

As far as I can tell, tax rates are not linear; i.e. 20B people will not generate twice the amount of tax revenue that 10B generate. I'm am still investigating this, as there is no mouse-hover summary of tax income per planet.

To me, I find I have a much stronger and stable economy by keeping tax rates high, not wasting tiles on morale buildings. Instead, I take those tiles (which I would have used morale buildings) and use stock exchanges (which also serve as weak morale buildings themselves). 6 Stock exchanges are as good as 1 VR center as far as morale is concerned. But in addition, I get a 180% bonus to my base tax revunue, and 30% to my influence. On high PQ planets I can an income upwards of 600+ BC per turn for a single planet.

I hate wasting spaces on the Trade Goods, personally.

In fact, I even went to the length of invading a crappy 5PQ planet and using it as a 'storage facility' for my trade goods.