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DrApostle

Join Date 09/2004

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Populations seems to increase at a constant rate rather than percentage

I ran a test using a custom race with no population bonus. I did not colonize any planets. I started the test after I had already pulled some population onto the first transport, thus beginning with 4.6 billion people.

Date.....Morale.....Pop.....#Inc........%Inc
1 Jan.....77%......4.6.....(.093).........2.02
8 Jan.....77%......4.693.....(.093)....1.98
...(The # incresed remained constant, while % increase fell)
15 Feb...77%.....5.158.....(.093).....1.84
...
I then tried the 100% bonus:
22 Feb...100%...5.308.....(1.5).......2.9
... (The # increased remained constant, while % fell)
8 Jun.....100%...7.408......(1.5).......2.07
...
I then went back to 88%, just for kicks and got the same # increase as before
15 Jun......88%...7.501......(.093)....1.26
22 Jun......88%...7.594......(.093)....1.22
...
Then I tried 62% morale out of curiosity
1 Jul..........62%...7.669......(.075).....(0.99)
8 Jul..........62%...7.744......(.075).....(0.98)

I'm wondering if I am missing something or is this the way the game is supposed to function?

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Any feedback on this?

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My only guess is that Stardock used "tiers" of growth is some table, ie if you have 10-12 pop u get X*(approval modifier), and if you have 13-15 pop u get Y*(approval modifier)

By going "back" to 88?, did you mean 77?

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I suspect that the constant actual rate / decreasing percentage rate is WAD (working as designed). Constant percentage growth is an exponential function that would make high PQ planets tough to keep happy as they generated huge new populations each turn in the mid to late game.

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By going "back" to 88?, did you mean 77?

I phrased that incorrectly. I went to 88% morale just to see if there was any variance above 75%. There isn't. What was odd was that the numerical increase was the same, despite the fact that the population increased from 4.6 billion to 7.5 billion.

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Maybe at 4 billion people you have already hit the cap for planetary growth so the growth rate will remain constant. Colonize a new planet with 100 million and see what happens with your test?

Cheers,
John

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i did this looking for optimal tax increases, and population increased the same number of citizens per turn, depending on tax rate.

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Maybe at 4 billion people you have already hit the cap for planetary growth so the growth rate will remain constant. Colonize a new planet with 100 million and see what happens with your test?

Cheers,
John

But then any population growth bonuses would be negated. In the 1.1 patch notes, frogboy clearly stated that he did away with the 200 million/turn cap so that racial bonuses would be used. This was a big reason for the change in the way population growth was calculated.

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i did this looking for optimal tax increases, and population increased the same number of citizens per turn, depending on tax rate.

Are you sure it wasn't tied to morale? (Which, of course, is tied to tax rate.)

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+ Population growth fixed dramatically. This is going to have a significant game play result that we're still having to fix in the AI. Before, on a class 10 planet with a morale of 70 your population would increase at 20% per turn. Now is would change at 3%.

The "population growth ability bug" wasn't a bug but rather a problem with having populations in billions rather than millions. The population growth was previously capped at 200 million per turn. 20% of say 1 billion (or
higher) reached that cap. So all those bonuses meant nothing.

Now, at 3%, if you have a population of 1 billion then you're looking at an increase of 30 million per turn X your population bonus. If your morale is 100%, that gets doubled again.

Here's the thing: If you drain a population down to only a few billion, it'll take you a very long time to recover. Say goodbye to mass colony rush. You'll need to be very careful or else you could end up with a vast empire of tiny populations producing no money while smaller empires grow beyond you and conquer your weak but large empire.

Population Growth = CurrentMorale X Government Level X PlanetQuality Factory X GrowthFactor.

+ If your morale is > 75% you now get a 25% extra bonus to population growth. If it's at 100% you get a 100% extra bonus.

+ Population growth ability taken into account at the very end of this process for maximium effect.

These are the actual notes.

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Custom race, planet quality 10, 0 civ pop bonus, 55% moral:

5.00 --> 5.08 --> 5.15 --> 5.23 --> 5.30

Thalian race, planet quality 15, o civ bonus, 55% moral:

5.00 --> 5.08 --> 5.15 --> 5.23 --> 5.30

Same as above, exept with 20% civ pop bonus:

5.00 --> 5.09 --> 5.18 --> 5.27 --> 5.36

I also saw no difference between moral 55% and moral 70%.

I'll let someone else figure the percentages, but it's apparent that pop growth is working much differently than the 1.1 readme says it's supposed to work.

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I'm pretty sure there's an upper limit for weekly pop growth, and I think it is too small.

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I also saw no difference between moral 55% and moral 70%.

The difference kicks in at 75% in 1.1, not 70% like it used to in 1.0X

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Custom race, planet quality 10, 0 civ pop bonus, 55% moral:

5.00 --> 5.08 --> 5.15 --> 5.23 --> 5.30

Thalian race, planet quality 15, o civ bonus, 55% moral:

5.00 --> 5.08 --> 5.15 --> 5.23 --> 5.30

Same as above, exept with 20% civ pop bonus:

5.00 --> 5.09 --> 5.18 --> 5.27 --> 5.36

One thing, too. It looks like you were looking at your general civilization population which rounds off. If you look at your home planet, it goes one decimal place further. Based on your numbers, I would guess that your population actually increased .075b each turn, which is the same amount my increased at a sub 75% level. The only problem with that is that I had over 7 billion population while you had 5 billion population.

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Actually, it's the home planet pop that rounds off.

The difference kicks in at 75% in 1.1, not 70% like it used to in 1.0X

There's a big jump at 75%, but according to the formula given in the 1.1 changelog there should still be a smaller difference between 55% and 70%:

Population Growth = CurrentMorale X Government Level X PlanetQuality Factory X GrowthFactor.

Note that planet quality factor did not have any effect on growth either.

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