What priority should multiplayer have?

How multiplayer impacts design

Last week I wrote about whether strategy games need multiplayer.  There are definitely strong feelings on the matter.

In the article, I referred to blogs written by top reviewers Bruce Geryk and Troy Goodfellow.  I want people to understand something specifically -- I referred to them because they are top reviewers in their field. They did not take any points off of GalCiv II because it lacked multiplayer. They were putting forth the reason why many people are passionate about multiplayer in strategy games.

For the people who have a group of friends that they play multiplayer with, then a multiplayer feature in GalCiv II would be ideal.  And for those people, having multiplayer allows the game to have a much longer lifespan on their hard drives.  My favorite PC game of all time is Total Annihilation. But if it didn't have multiplayer, it wouldn't have survived very long on my hard drive. It was its multiplayer that made it so popular.

In many respects, what I'm writing about and what multiplayer advocates are writing about go right past each other.  My argument is that multiplayer advocates have plenty of options to choose from.  Not only have most strategy games of the past 5 years put a lot of energy into multiplayer (Age of Empire 3, Civilization 4, Rise of Nations, etc.) but even this year there will be turn based games with significant multiplayer components such as Space Empires V, Sword of the Stars, HOMM 5.  The developers of Sword of the Stars argue that putting in multiplayer has no negative impact on the single player experience.  I'll have to disagree.  In having either designed, developed or been heavily involved in Entrepreneur, Trials of Battle, Stellar Frontier (a multiplayer space game with the Drengin, Arceans and Terran Alliance btw), The Corporate Machine, and The Political Machine, (GalCiv being the only game I've done that isn't multiplayer btw), I think I have some experience in being able to say that yes, having multiplayer changes the way the game is designed.  When I designed The Political Machine, I imagined how it would be played multiplayer first and then wrote the AI as a simulated on-line opponent.  I think The Political Machine turned out pretty well as a single player game still, but it's a very different game than it would have been had it only been a single player game. I would have made it so that top players would have a lot more data and information to put together far more sophisticated strategies.

Making GalCiv II have multiplayer as a checkbox is pretty easy. You could just send the saved game back and forth between players. But would people be satisfied with that?  Some would.  But even doing that adds time to the development schedule. It still adds budget, and you still have a bunch of other things that could make the experience non-ideal.  I'd rather a game decide what it wants to be. If you're going to have multiplayer, do it right.  And in my experience, doing it right means having multiplayer be part of the design.  In GalCiv II, we put in the piping so that we could do multiplayer later on.  But in terms of time and energy, we wanted to focus everything on making the single player experience satisfying.

The point on multiplayer isn't whether a strategy game should have it or not as much as what priority it should have in the development of a game.  Heck, if I had more development resources, I'd take the GalCiv II engine and make an RTS version of it. I'd love to see my designed ships up against someone else's in battle. ;)

66,335 views 56 replies
Reply #1 Top
If having multiplayer means less single-player content, or less sophisticated content, most GC players will likely not want multiplayer, as the poll to the left indicated. If it were something that could be done as an extra that did not otherwise affect the single player expirience, and that only those who will use it have to pay for, such as the proposed ship pack, yes, by all means do it.

I'd rather a game decide what it wants to be. If you're going to have multiplayer, do it right. And in my experience, doing it right means having multiplayer be part of the design. In GalCiv II, we put in the piping so that we could do multiplayer later on. But in terms of time and energy, we wanted to focus everything on making the single player experience satisfying.


So, was GC2 designed to be multiplayer or not? Would a multiplayer-only expansion negatively affect future single player development or not?
Reply #2 Top
I wrote at more length in response to your "Poll Results" post, but to make it brief here: What you say makes sense. I wouldnt compromise your vision of a high-priority SP in an attempt to please all the people. You have bound these customers now to you, and it goes against post-sales relations sense to (potentially) anger satisfied customers with something secondary that takes your resources away from optimizing what they consider primary.
It appears to me that the normative outlook of most of your fans here tends to be similar to yours (and mine): GC2 is an excellent SP experience, and this should not be compromised without very good reason.
Reply #3 Top
No, no MP. Work on features, depth, modability, AI... GALCIV III... anything but MP.

Joe.
Reply #4 Top
More multiplayer means less singleplayer. You always are saying Stardock has limited ressources (like every company ) and because of this I completely agree, there are many other games having multiplayer.
Please stick to the way you did before and keep it singleplayer only because it will be a great game with.

Personally I would prefer to see a great singleplayer than a medium multiplayer and medium singleplayer.

And if I should make a guess, all your posts indicate you don't want a multiplayeroption, and what does this mean? Simply you aren't whole-hearted when implementing multiplayeroptions, that's absolutely normal. Take a look at what you did the easterdays, such things wouldn't happen for a unwanted multiplayer.

Stick to what you want, the poll (at the moment) says the way is a good one.
Reply #5 Top
I think people against multiplayer should choke and die (froginol excepted, of course).

Hey, you asked .
Reply #6 Top
I think just adding basic PBEM and hot seat to a general expansion pack, is better than coming out with a multiplayer only expansion pack.
Reply #7 Top
MP may not be essential, but it is a big value-adder in my book. Sure I like playing Chess, card games, Axis & Allies, and many other turn-based strategy games against the PC, but there is no substitute for a flesh and blood opponent. Stardock does deserve cudos for their human-like AI, but nobody can match the real thing.

cheers,

chewy
Reply #8 Top
Since I likely would never play it multiplayer even if it were free, to me it should have a near zero priority.
Reply #9 Top
I, pesonaly, would just want to see hotseat, me and my friend(s) against a lot of computer players, that would be FUN; and i realy don't think that developing hotseat is such a big deal, not even expansion job, maybe next patch...
Reply #10 Top
MP is fine, but not at the expense of the SP experience. Your priorities were right from the outset, don't change them now.
Reply #11 Top
oh, yeah, almost forgot, you can make next WEB POLL something like

what kind of multiplayer do you want:
a)none
b)hotseat only
c)hotseat, TCP/IP and stuff like that
d)full multiplayer (like battlenet)
Reply #12 Top
No, make the next poll:

Do you want multiplayer?

A: Yes

B: Yes

C: Absolutely.
Reply #13 Top
I'm kind of in the same boat as you Brad. The only people I would enjoy playing a game that requires this significant of a time investment against would be a "real-life" friend. Of that group, two people play Gal Civ II. Out of those two people, neither has a skill level at 4x games that is comparable to mine. One is so much worse that we would never play, while I imagine the other might play 1-3 games with me before tiring. That being said, I know there are definitely people who would get more out of a multiplayer experience than me.

Would I give multiplayer a few shots if it were included in the expansion? Yep. Would I buy an expansion with added multiplayer as its only content? No. I would much rather see Terror Stars, different Government trees (rather than a simple, obvious progression from one inferior type to a superior form), and more interesting techs like Cloaking, Interdiction, and a million others I could list.
Reply #14 Top
Mh i need Multiplayer.. and i would buy an Multiplayer Expansion! Hotseat & TCP/IP + a few patches and the Game is perfect. I don't need a Campain or Story expansions...
Reply #15 Top
Hmm, I don't want to rehash everything that's been said before, so I'll just qualify my following statements by letting you know I voted 'no'.

To add something hopefully new to the discussion, I see this issue partly being about timing. We all know that a really excellent 'classic' game can have people playing multiplayer for years afterwards. Take something like Starcraft as an example. Doesn't matter how old it is or how dated the gfx look, it's the mechanics that keep people playing.

Is GalCiv2 a 'classic' game? Currently, I absolutely love it. I'm not sure if it will be on my hard drive in a couple of years. I just don't know. Maybe.

It might be prudent from a business standpoint to release more single player content while the masses are jazzed about the game and you have the excitement and the word of mouth going.

Later, when the throngs begin to thin and you being to see your player base shift more towards the die hards, then it might be time to reevaluate if providing multiplayer makes sense.

If GalCiv2 truly is a classic game, with excellent mechanics that keeps die hards coming back time and time again, they'll still be around to appreciate the multiplayer. Even if it's a year from now.

Just some thoughts.
Reply #16 Top
I have no interest at all in any form of multiplayer for GC2. I respect the fact the there are those who feel quite differently, but multiplayer is not what keeps a game on my hard drive. For example, I'm still playing Neverwinter Nights (a pretty darn old game) and I do enjoy the benefits of being online (as I have downloaded quite a few mods), but I've never played it multiplayer and I don't feel that I'm missing anything. It's still fun and fresh enough to get regular play and that is really all it takes for a game to stay on my hard drive. Is multiplayer the new black?
Reply #17 Top
I am not interested in multiplayer.

You should spend your resources making it possible to submit every game set up for the metaverse.

If you want to expand your market, then multi player is probably a good idea.
You are canvassing the wrong people.
You should be asking those who have not bought GC2.
Reply #18 Top
Well we gots to keep it real. MP, yes sure. However, Not at the cost of features/updates/expansions or modding support.

I'm so wishing version 1.2 was final already and we're talking about expansions, ship packs and multiplayer. Mods Mods Mods. Modding is SO cool. Mods keep games on my hard drives longer.

Yes, I want it all and willing to purchase all. Asking me what takes priority ? Top Notch "AAA " single player experience is what I was sold on. So inclusion of MP makes me wonder "At what cost / expense " to other things ? Keep the impact minimal is what I hope for. Would I use MP per se? Doubtful.
Reply #19 Top
Would I buy an expansion with added multiplayer as its only content? No. I would much rather see Terror Stars, different Government trees (rather than a simple, obvious progression from one inferior type to a superior form), and more interesting techs like Cloaking, Interdiction, and a million others I could list.

Amen
Reply #20 Top
The pbem concept would work nicely for professionals. I didn't really think about it until now. The last time I considered pbem was when X-Com had the pbem thing. These days, I'm on a tight schedule. I get an hour of leisure time per day and it's not always for GC2 as much as I wish it were. I'm getting about 5 hours a week with this game. My friend is of equal skill and equally strapped for time. As I've voiced my political opinion on the matter--the game isn't ideal yet so no mp at the expense of sp--your request is for feature suggestions:

Play by email. It would have a negligible to nonexistent effect on the single player game. All players should be allowed to use custom races. Play by email just sounds like the most attractive option but I'm admittedly not familiar with it. Does it allow more than two players?

The second option is LAN & IP. Forget battle.net. Think more along the lines of Doom 1. The people that do GC2 are going to deal among themselves. Your audience is smarter than the latest ghey FPS player and they are likely to be part of the lunatic fringe of technology politics (I am.)

I don't want to deal with any third party to setup a game, period.

I'm going to give Stardock more credit than the single-player Nazis are doing. I want features above all else. Stardock has demonstrated a commitment to this from day one. Also on day one, they mentioned that the multiplayer foundation is already there. I trust them not to botch the game over this.

About Geryk... ever since he gave Star Trek: Away Team a 5.5 when the community gave it a solid 7.5, he's been a non-credible assclown extraordinaire in my book. That particular situation symbolizes what everyone with criticism for the critics feels. The only people that deserved to be strung up into the wind are the Activation executives that sabotaged the game.
Reply #21 Top
Forget multiplayer. Concentrate on single player. Add content and features...

Make GC3 a multiplayer game.....

Reply #22 Top
I would take new features and perks for Single Player over Multiplayer ...

That being said, if Multiplayer came out, the ONLY mode I would be interested in would be PBEM. Any other form would be useless to me.

Dano
Reply #23 Top
Everyone should check out Stellar Frontier right now, you can't call yourself a fan unless you've tried it! It takes getting used too and the manuals don't explain it like it is, but it is certienly exteremly awesome!
Reply #24 Top
everyone and their sister does MP now days. this 'theory' that no amount of code can ever match a real player is true but beside the point. for me a good game is about the game itself and how much i enjoy my time spent playinbg it, not about how many 'wins' i can wrack up either against the AI OR against people in a MP setting.

i spent almost 5 years playing Ever Quest so i can understand the thrill of playing a game in real time with/against real people. but some games are better suited for MP than others. and with a limited budget as well as designe constraints. i myself would much rather have a great single player game than to have just another average SP and MP game.
Reply #25 Top
Not sure why MP fans are so vocal. To be honest no one I know has ever completed a single MP turn based game. I know folks who get all fired up and they start one and after an hour folks start to drop off and it dies a quick death. Heck I have never even started one and I love TB but who has time? MP is great for fast action games.

Don't waste a single developer on MP until you guys have so much extra cash you just need to throw it away....