Fleet Managers: More harm then good?

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Why can't I see this posted?

No, they're attacking a fleet. It's always 1 mp to attack a fleet, and this won't be changed. I use orbital fleet managers on my best planets, and design defenders with very high defences that won't be wiped out in the first turn, and can still do heavy damage.

while this may be true for me the advantage of defending as a fleet outweighs this

In some respects,it might be better to slow your enemy down with crap defenders while your main bases gear up.

A bunch of crap ships doesn't help the AI. I can then just unfleet my ships and take them out, or have a really fast ship wipe them out. Same results, same amount of time.

Marcathonas, you misunderstood. Attacking a fleet in orbit on a planet with a Fleet Manager costs 1 MP. Attacking each ship in orbit without a fleet manager also costs 1 MP each. So if you have two planets each with 6 ships in orbit and one has a fleet manager (A), the other does not (B) it will cost you 6 MP to destroy all the ships on planet B, while only costing 1 MP to destroy the ships on planet A. So the Fleet manager actually helps your enemy because after attacking your planet with a fleet manger, he has all those MPs left. This is not debatable, it's a fact. you can check yourself.

And I already said this was a minor annoyance, but it was worth mentioning since it is such an easy fix.

I could see this in a specific situation- namely, one huge, heavily armed, heavily armored ship with few to no engines versus a planet that's surrounded by 1/0 defenders and can replace them as fast as they're destroyed- AND there's another planet that's preparing to deal with this attacker soon, AND the attacking faction isn't going to send any reinforcements.

In that specific situation, yes. Then you wouldn't want a Fleet Manager. But there's a solution for that. It's called a bulldozer.

I wish I hadn't put in the first example. The cheese tactics aren't my concern. All I'm saying is that if I attack a bunch of ships in orbit of an AI planet, I hope he has a fleet manager so my attack only uses 1 MP when I'm done. If the AI does not have a fleet manager, it will cost my fleets the number of MPs = the number of ships in orbit.

The AI almost always builds Fleet Mangers on larger planets, so it's to our advantage, but it doesn't seem right.

Marcathonas, you misunderstood.

No I didn't. Your point is irrelevant, if it annoys you then don't build the fleet manager. It ALWAYS costs 1 mp to attack a fleet. It is better to have a fleet manager on good planets and use good ships to defend them, so the enemy needs something powerful to overcome them. If you use defenders, then yes don't build the fleet manager. If you're using your best ships to defend (as I do on my +20 planets) then you need a fleet manager.

Honestly, if I have to play defense, I'd rather have my ships off-planet in a real fleet, backed by assist modules (Battlestation).

Why waste a precious tile for something that gives a dubious benefit?

Honestly, if I have to play defense, I'd rather have my ships off-planet in a real fleet, backed by assist modules (Battlestation).

Starbase bonuses apply to planets in orbit as well as planets in space.

No I didn't. Your point is irrelevant,

You are very argumentative, there is nothing to argue about here. I was pointiing out a fact; it costs fewer MP to attack a planet's ships in orbit when there is a fleet manager. It seems that if the attacking fleeet's MP were subtracted by the number of ships in the fleet then it would even out again.

Of course using a FM is better when defending, but the AI saves movement points when you do. That's all I'm saying.

Why waste a precious tile for something that gives a dubious benefit?

I have to agree with BinnisterGC2. *Shrug*

it costs fewer MP to attack a planet's ships in orbit when there is a fleet manager

Because they're in a fleet. As I said, if you don't want them to attack at once, don't build it. Attacking a fleet is one movement point, and that won't change. And I apologise for being argumentative, but honestly there just isn't a point. Fleets will always be one movement point to attack one planets, the same as in space.

All I'm saying is that if I attack a bunch of ships in orbit of an AI planet, I hope he has a fleet manager so my attack only uses 1 MP when I'm done. If the AI does not have a fleet manager, it will cost my fleets the number of MPs = the number of ships in orbit. The AI almost always builds Fleet Mangers on larger planets, so it's to our advantage, but it doesn't seem right.

I've already said it doesn't take me anymore time, because you can break up your fleets and attack one on one if he doesn't have a fleet manager.

I, too dont like the system at the moment.

If you think about it its stupid that your ships need 1 movementpoint to fly 1 parsec kill 1 ship and fly back to where they came from...

It would make more sense to force you to fight ALL ships and fleets one after another unless you invest another movementpoint to retreat.

I hope he has a fleet manager so my attack only uses 1 MP when I'm done.

Actually, I don't.

First, OFM means that they're a fleet. Your ships will take more damage fighting a fleet, and they're also much more likely to be killed.

Second, you get less experience for killing a fleet of 5 ships than attacking/crushing 5 individual ships. Experience = HP, and HP is life.

Honestly, if I have to play defense, I'd rather have my ships off-planet in a real fleet, backed by assist modules

Absolutely agreed. If the AI attacks your planet, it should be because you dropped the ball or didn't see the fleet coming. Otherwise, they should never be attacked.

Indeed, you should never let yourself be attacked period. Being attacked puts you at a fairly substantial disadvantage.

The 1 movement point per ship attacked when the defenders are unfleeted is an adequate representation of having to hunt that ship down in a 1x1x1 parsec area(as that lone vessel will probably be an unwilling combatant).

As for the fleet managers, I personally use a more mobile defense theory and therefore do not use the things. But their purpose isn't to slow down the enemy(which is the purpose of having unfleeted defenders) but to destroy the attacking forces.

I really don't get the beef about one MP per single ship/fleet. It is the same rules for both sides.

I too like it best if I am attacking a fleet instead of 10 ships. I hate using all those MP's too. But they have to do it that way too. And sometimes it is to your advantage. If those single ships were in a fleet they might have the combined firepower to take you. I would rather spend 5 MP's to down five of their best ships, than lose my ship/fleet for the sake of those MP's.

If you want to use a fleet in orbit without using the Fleet Manager, just bring all the ships out of orbit, fleet them up. and then place the fleet back in orbit. Those ships will remain a fleet until you bring them out of orbit again. It takes a little time and effort, but it saves the cost of the fleet manager.

If you can create a powerful enough fleet to defeat the attackers, then it's worth it...otherwise, it can be better to just slow them down with crap ships.

I think Arthromitor put it best.
Fleet manager = attempting to defeat the attacker
Multiple defenders with no fleet manager = slowing down the attacker

The big difference is whether or not you have a mobile defense force that can move in to relieve your planet. If you don't, then your non-fleet-manager-planet is screwed.
In either case, as people have pointed out, it's much much better to have fleets that can attack the enemy before they get to your planets, rather than a static defense (for a historical example, think France at the start of WWII).

No, they're attacking a fleet. It's always 1 mp to attack a fleet, and this won't be changed. I use orbital fleet managers on my best planets, and design defenders with very high defences that won't be wiped out in the first turn, and can still do heavy damage.

I don't bother with them at all. I prefer the old saying "the best defense is a good offense". So I just place 1 small defender on each planet to keep the riffraff( rogue transports) away and strategically place good offensive fleets near my borders with potential threats.

The Orbital Mgr limits you to the cuurent logistics limit, so if you have a bunch of ships in orbit, you may have multiple fleets. If you take tiny hulls [logistic=2], fit them with some weapons and a shield (no engines) [a nanoripper and shield comes to mind] then you will have 'fleets' that will seriously defend you and probably survive repeated initial assaults. Then take out the infidels for their temerity (since whoever is left is right next door)(a military starbase in the AO helps, too)

That said, a mobile defense force is handy, too....

I may be wrong but I think the OP meant to say that he'd rather the AI use a fleet manager on its planet so he can swoop in and wipe out the fleet and still have MPs left to move on to say the next planet in the system.

That being said again as with all things in this game there are multiple viable solutions to the same type of problems. I tend to build fleet managers on planets that I want the AI to think twice about attacking. I've noticed in the latest beta that it will make a bee line for planets that are not defended in this fashion. Something that may need to be tweak cause if that is actually the case and not just a fluke of my current game then with that knowledge I can direct what the AI attacks. This would be bad .

It really depends on what victory condition I'm in the mood to go for. If I'm just sitting back waiting on a tech victory then I fill all my starports with ships and let the fleet manager take care of defense for me. If I'm on the offensive then it is rare for any enemy fleets to exist let alone get near my planets . Typically though the fleet manager is one of the last things I build and that is after I feel the planet is efficient enough for my needs.

Couldn't you just demolish your fleet manager is this exceedingly rare case? Or better yet, never build a fleet manager because it is almost always better to launch your ships, create a fleet, and get first strike?