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Random News: April 2006

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Random News: April 2006

Status Report

from GalCiv2 Forums

I don't know how many people here read the Journals section but that's where we put up most of our day to day development stuff.  Though by "We" I mean the entire GalCiv II team though it seems like I'm the only one with enough free time to blog about it (under my Draginol account from JoeUser.com).

Next week we put out 1.1. We've been releasing beta builds like crazy since the end of last month.  Future updates won't be quite so extravagant. We just wanted to make sure people knew how serious we were about adding user-requested features even after release.

More reviews have been coming in. We've been very pleased with most of them.  The G4 XPlay review was a real shocker. 5 out of 5. I've never seen a game get a 5 out of 5 on there so we were pretty jazzed about that.  Our friends at NeoTechGaming had a nice review up of the game as well.  Computer Games Magazine gave us a 4.5 out of 5.  The CGW review should be out soon too, they aren't currently doing ratings though so we'll just use this made up quote of editor in chief Jeff Green "6 out of 5, greatest achievement in human history." ;)

Meanwhile, our developers have been coding away on these updates. But what about the art team? Most of them are on Society. But what about our other artists? One idea we've been toying around with is a "Ship Pack".  Basically a bunch of hulls and components for ships that would allow people to create a bunch of new ships that we would sell for $9 or something.  We'd be curious on people's thoughts on that.  Art is expensive and we'd rather do it as a one time thing as opposed to a bunch of smaller groups at $2 or something each.

After next week, the team will start working on 1.2.  We have a list already of tweaks and additions.  We probably won't have a long public beta test of it like we did with 1.1. New users come to our forums, see a ton of "crash" reports and think "Oh man, this game must be buggy" not realizing they're reading beta reports.

Speaking of forums, we realize that our forums are like the devil. We are looking at a redesign soon. But we are listening to people's ideas.  Our forum system works across all our sites and allows for a lot of customization - which we'll be using to make it easier and faster to use in the coming weeks).

That's all for now. !FROGCARE!

60,437 views 139 replies
Reply #51 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would buy a shippack for $10, but what other people have put up is also true. Maybe you could bundle it with some new maps and maybe more pre-made ships?
Reply #52 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One thing that keeps me coming back to this game is the constant updates. If that slows down then my interest will wane. And while you aren't making any money from me (except for my original purcahse) if my interest wanes, I'll stop playing and when the expansion pack is released I will not be interested and probably will skip it. So you'll lose that future revenue. I agree with others who say if you organized the forums there would be less confusion as to what builds people were having problems with.

As for 1.2 I hope that it focusses on UI things that are annoying such as having to disband a fleet to upgrade units or trade to another civ. There are a lot of tiresome issues that make the game less fun to play each time.

As for ship packs, as others have pointed out, the library already has mods for free. Why pay more? But I would pay $9 for a music expansion pack. That has more value to me.
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Reply #53 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Dear Frogboy,

Please contact me so I can give you my address for the royalty checks. In a prior journal response I suggested a ship pack for those of us with more money than creativity who still wanted to run around with some cool ships. If NTP can get $600 million from RIM/Blackberry for patenting the obvious, I should be able to get a free upgrade out of Stardock for the same. Oh and throwing in a stand alone ship editor would rock.

Also I like playing the betas. I would hope there is a way to get it worked out so that I can still get my hands on them without their release clogging up the boards with beta bug reports. A private forum would work. Since we have to get the betas from SDC, you should know who's getting them and redirect?
Reply #55 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd be intrested in buying a art pack definatly, although i agree it would ultimately depend on how much content was released for that $9 or however many £'s that is .
Reply #56 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd gladly pay $9 if the content was worth it. Extra components and hulls isn't enough for me though. I think the earlier suggestion about each race having thier own unique ship hulls and components is an excellent idea. I would also like to see actual ship designs included. Hulls with extras and fluff, but no components, so that we can add our own components as we progress along the tech tree.

There are a few mod packs out there with bunches of ship designs, I'd like to see packs like that included. Maybe a basic ship design for each hull size, unique to each race. I'd definately pay $$ for that!
Reply #58 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I did not get the expansion pack for GalCiv1 as I did not perceive it to be a good value for me. I am almost exclusively a sandbox mode player, so a new campaign, map editor, scenarios and editor did not interest me. I know there were some new ships, techs and so on, but it seemed to me the Campaign and editors where the emphasis of the expansion.

I have the same concerns for the GalCiv2 expansion pack. Unless it adds a lot to the sandbox mode, I probably won't purchase it. The ship pack sounds like something I would definitely want. If it were a stand-alone ship pack, even at $9 bucks, I think I would get it. If the GalCiv2 expansion were along the lines of the GalCiv1 expansion, but included the ship pack, I would be in line to order. So for users like me, the ship pack as part of the expansion pack would definitely be a selling point for the expansion.

I don't understand why some folks think it would be a PR problem to sell a ship pack. If you don't think it is worth whatever they charge for an add-on, don't get it. I just don't understand any negativity beyond that. Stardock has been great in supporting the game and adding new features for free. I don't see how a payware ship pack changes that. Unlike the Oblivion horse armor, GalCiv2 is as playable without any ship pack as it is with. It does not give any online user an advantage over another. Sure, I would love the deluxe trim aftermarket kit for my car, but I don't blame the manufacture for making and selling it to folks that are willing to purchase it. It does not take anything away from the car I already have.

In the world of Flight and Train Siming, add-ons are sold all the time, though I admit not usually by the game's developer. For Trainz, there are single locomotives that cost at least $12. Here we are talking an entire ship pack. Again, if you don't think it is a good value, don't get it.

I would like to see each race get it's own set of hulls. I love the idea of parts that can help us make ships from movies and TV. I can't see how Stardock can actually include completed TV/movie models without getting into legal problems. They can, however, give us the parts.

As a Firefox user myself, I don't have the log-in or highlighting problems several other users noted. It works very well for me with Stardock.

I'm looking forward to more ships, however it comes about!

Tony
Reply #59 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm more interested in changes that affect game play such as AI improvements, dipolmacy improvements (e.g., allowing submissions before the UP, etc.) than more eye candy.

My concern is this will fragment the community further. Already there are ship designs using the CE content (I purchased in Dec. 2005 so I have this extra content but others are not so lucky). I would save the ship pack for the expansion pack (and include the CE content) coming out this fall. In the ship pack I would first give unique hulls to all the races!
Reply #60 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I wouldn't buy a ship pack unless unique hulls for all races (excluding minors) where implemented first. Sorry, I believe that should have been in there from the get go.

Once those are implemented then I would strongly consider buying one depending on how much was given to me. I'd even like race specific jewlery as some races find some ship designs more comfortable than others, no?
Reply #61 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have a tendency to buy expansion packs and then not play them...
I would agree that the extra ships should be in an expansion pack and not a minor $9 package. I know it is not a lot of money but even with a lot of disposable income I don't like buying something I consider not worth the money. An expansion pack would be a better way to add content, address some artistic things (like the rendered images for planet tiles, those really do not look good, and the battle animations-my brother was pretty interested in how my "Canadian Empire" was doing but I didn't miss the look on his face when he saw the invasion animations...), things that should have been addressed prior to the game's release.

Anyways, that's my say, I agree with others that unless you can offer a large release with a bunch of new features this will be a bad idea and leads to a bunch of crap (like the horse armor, though I find horses annoying in that game so I don't need armor to begin with). Episodic content seems ok but again there is a very fine line between worth the money and just a way of getting 150% of the price by releasing 100% of the content over a few different releases.
Reply #62 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I for one would buy a ship pack for $9. That's one lunch out at TGI Friday's not including tip so really a small price to pay. Or two coffees at Starbucks. And so what if it is 25% of the original cost of the game. I'm all for Stardock making more money which means we've all got a greater chance at continuing to get other updates for free. Not to mention the fact that more money for Stardock means future games too.

Any chance at getting a sneak peak at what you guys are thinking about for 1.2? Not that I'm unhappy with v1.1 heck if you guys stopped there and called it done I would happily play for years. Mostly just curious to know what you think still needs tweaked. And before everyone else dogpiles on complaining about their pet peeve in the game let me just say that yes there are things that I think could be *better* but just because I think it could be *better* doesn't mean that everyone else sees it that way. So keep that in mind when you drag out the wish lists.
Reply #63 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Usually, I don't post often, but I thought I'd chime in about the Ship Pack. I've been playing a lot of Oblivion lately, and I must say that the micro-expansions are not the best thing to do if you want to retain the extremely high level of trust your company has built up. I didn't buy the Oblivion downloads, and ironically, one of the main reasons why not was I was amazed that they would charge for such little additions when Stardock was offering so many free updates for Galactic Civilizations II.

As others have said, it may be better to offer it as part of the expansion. Or, possibly offer it as a micro-expansion, with the expressed intention that it will be part of the first expansion. That way people who want it NOW, can get it. People who are willing to wait are still not missing out.
Reply #64 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Use a seperate subforum for beta testing.

I think it would have been nice if all the races had unique ships, but I'm not buying a ship pack to get it.
Reply #65 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The idea of a ship pack doesn't seriously put me off like the Oblivion horse armor does, but it does strike me a bit as a possible indicator towards increased gaming costs and the eventual death of free add-on content in games (along with the horse armor, assorted other xbox live pay-content, and all those "episodic" games that are getting talked about). I hate feeling "nickeled and dimed".

That said, though, if there was compelling enough content, I might be willing to spend $9. I'm guessing it would take a heck of a lot more hulls and jewelry than you'd be able/willing to provide at that pricepoint for me to find it compelling if it was just eye candy, unless you guys came up with something spectactular.

I actually didn't really have high expectations that Stardock would be providing new hulls or jewelry in one of your free patches, but I had been hoping that such additions would be a big part of your planned expansion pack. If you had a separate ship pack, I presume the expansion wouldn't provide much in the way of those? Honestly, I'd really really be much more likely to pay $25-30 for a big expansion that includes the ship design stuff than $20 for a leaner expansion and $9 for a ship pack (and I'd be less concerned that 3 months later I'd have to shell out another $9 for another ship pack).

One last thought: Stardock's made a lot of great improvements to the ship design screen, but that left hand side with the ship components and jewelry could use some work. If you're going to make a bunch more jewelry available, it'd be nice if things were more organized than just a scrolling list of 100 items with small thumbnails to identify them. Naming them and making them sortable might help managing them, and/or breaking them into separate categories.
Reply #66 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I personally do not feel a ship pack will be worth even your effort. First off, by the time most of us on here now get to that point (when its released) we may have already played the game enough to not buy a ship pack...... Not the same high level of interest then as we have now. A ship pack is a great idea but package it with some new features that will make us want to bust out the game again. Kind of like what they do for expansions in Civ.... and I am not talking about multi player. Personally I think multi-player in a turned-based game is a huge waste of time unless is Chess. RTS are better for multi-player....

What I suggest is a full expansion pack..... that may include some of the below
1. Yes, the ship pack and maybe a ship designer tool to use outside the game.
2. Bigger galaxies Or a custom galaxy builder tool
3. More alien races perhaps…. Not to play at one time a few more new ones to choose from
4. Perhaps even more scenarios and a scenario editor.
5. If needed at that time… AI improvements (enhancements).

To me, that would be worth let’s say $15-20. Trust me, in a month or 2 I will be onto another game and just having new ships really won’t get me breaking out the wallet. I think an expansion should get us to want to play again…. I am just not sure a few pretty ship add-ons will warrant our investment in money or yours in time spent.
Reply #67 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you don't want the stuff in the shippack, don't buy it. DUH! I WOULD buy it if I could get it without having to buy it online (parents are really concerned with online identity theft).
Reply #68 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I don't like the idea about a ship pack at all.

Imho those micro addons are a very bad idea.

Unlike the Oblivion horse armor, GalCiv2 is as playable without any ship pack as it is with. It does not give any online user an advantage over another.


You know that Oblivion also has no multiplayer and the horse armor is the equivalent to GalCivs jewellery? I.e. serving no purpose ingame than looking good.

The reason why Bethesda got a lot of bad PR for this one (and it was right they got it it) was because they've sold minor, things for a hefty price. (A graphical gimmic, a tiny quest, stuff that takes an experienced modder a day to do it. They then sold it for 2$ a piece. Imagine some 50'000 people buying it, well that's what I would call a cash cow. Also this trend towards episodic gaming and payable extra content is annoying a lot of people. Because when I've bought a game I don't want to pay extra money for stuff which should have been imho inside the release. (This doesn't mean that I've think everything should be inside a release, but either you stuff it into the release or a patch or into an expansion pack. The stuff inbetween I don't like. )

Ok, here it wouldn't be that many people that would buy it of course, but let's speculate a bit. 9$ à 5'000 buyers equals 45k$. Well, I dunno about the cost of art people and I know even less about how many would buy it, but this ship pack would need a significant amount of content to justify such an income.

Another reason why I would be against it is that it would be impossible for a lot of people (and so of course also for me) to buy something like this, since it would be exclusively sold over the net. And I don't buy stuff over the net where I can't pay after I've got the stuff. Had seen enough rip offs and problems with credit cards to not do so. (Remember, not all people are US residents. )

(Third reason, which is arguable not really a good reason, is that people tend to just download such micro addons, since there is almost no possibility to protect them against copying. Of course, you can argue that people could have done the same with the game. But it's not quite the same, downloading a game is seen as hurting the devs, downloading something which the downloader doesn't see worth his money is imho something differently (at least in a moral sense). Not that I would do something like this, currently tend to a "very good" alignement in my games.

-----------------------


As for patch 1.2, please, pretty please still release all those betas.

But make the following changes:

-Open a new beta forum where no posts made there appear on the "recents post" list
-Turn off the "show pre-release versions" in Stardock Central by default and also turn it off once with the next patch (it IS checked by default on the version you get with the game, which was a very bad thing, imho)
-make it so that people who would want to download a beta have to input a code which is posted here on your journal section -> reason for doing so is to prevent those, "I click on everything without reading it"-people from downloading it, so only people who are a bit more serious about playing the beta would do it
Reply #69 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
NeoTech Gaming Galactic Civilizations 2: The Dreadlords review: Link Here is the direct link to the excellent review done by a player.

Thanks for mentioing our meager website Brad.

I would buy the ship packs and I would pay for a new interface as well. Star Wars themed, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek. I own DesktopX Pro but have no skills.
Reply #70 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just went back and looked at the developlment post-mortem and I should modify some of my comments. I suppose for a $1.3 million budget little things like the invasion animations are pretty minor issues. I think the game could use some more polish, to be sure, but for the price and size of the team things are pretty damn good.

I can also understand how the promise of a bunch of people buying the $9 expansion (mostly because they are loyal fans that simply will buy because it is there) sounds really attractive to such a small company. But as mentioned leveraging that loyalty can have negative results. I'm really enjoying the game and I've never played turn-based games before, so keep up the good work, but don't let success blind you to some of the key factors that made the game so popular. Thanks.

(FWIW, The post-mortem is a really good read, I'm working for a software company (though not games, military software) and I found it really interesting.)
Reply #71 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Looks like you guys have taken the incentive from Bethesda and EA's Euroforce on mini-expansions and add-on's. The problem being is that the consumer is seeing a hell of a lot lesa value for money from these add-on's than from normal retail games and expansions. And it looks to be an increasing trend, providing gamers will relatively small trinkets that are by no means a necessity for a rediculous amount of money compared to the effort that goes into making them. I mean cmon 2 pieces of horse armour for $2, its not a lot, but for the amount of content being provided by Bethesda, its daylight robbery. So the question is how many hull's will we be getting (its going to have to be a lot) to justify $9 without getting the feeling youve been ripped off. Or will there be anything besides hulls. This is the kind of thing which is very similar to the bonus material that paying customers of Galactic Civilizations II got for free beforehand, so are they days of free content patches over. Because a mini-addon and a content patch are very similar.

Even EA's Euroforce has a questionable amount of content provided for the price but its still in another league compared to this new wave of mini add-on's we are recently seeing, which are atrocious. And i think they will be known and recognised for it.

The other point is that because this is a new way of making some revenue quickly for game developers, chuck out an add on worth a few dollars/pounds sterling or whatever every few weeks. That developers may hold off putting in all or some of the really cool features in, just so they can exploit them in an addon on at a later time.

My last point is that if add-on's are released before a planned expansion pack there's always a risk that those add-on's will appear in the expansion pack, so im not gonig to pay for something twice if i want to get the expansion pack at a later date.

Reply #72 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your point is being made from someone who knows very little about Stardock. They are NOT greedy like any of those companies you are comparing her to.

They will and have put out free bonus material as they have with galciv1 and galciv2 has some bonus material now. . These statements like yours has no place at all here. If your unhappy with galciv2 I suggest not playing it anymore and move on. Your thoughts and concerns simply are not wanted here. Mainly because they are so inaccurate aligning stardock with any other company is silly. Stardock is a one of a kind company no one produces games better or distribute them better for that matter.
Reply #73 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

He is just expressing his opinion, try exhibiting some tolerance. Success and money changes anyone, even StarDock... Not saying it'll happen and remember all this is about a proposed mini-expansion, but all the same, maybe try an open mind...
Reply #74 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Re Ship pack: I'd buy it. That is one of my favorite parts of the game. $9 is less than the cost of a movie, well worth the time I would spend with it. I don't want to wait for it to be included in an expansion, which may not be out for 6months to a year if it is ready and your artists have some free time now....

Re Beta Testing and forums: I agree, the solution would be to take the Bug reports off the Everything forum. In fact, I'd like to see the Everything forum go away - that way people will have to go to the Forum that interests them. And to make a special Beta Forum separate from the rest.

You could also make it a bit harder to get the Beta versions - special serial number or something we'd have to register to get. But the Beta's are one of the things I luv about your business model now - they are keeping my interest fresh.

Re Forums: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
Reply #75 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would like to see some more organic ship components.

Perhaps these could be implemented by adding some high level modules at the top of the technology tree, which unluck organic looking hulls, and also engines, weapons etc with an organic look.

Kinda Vorlon, Shadow etc. feel.