Espionage Worthless

from GalCiv2 Forums
I don't know if this is a bug or just an undocumented design feature. But, as far as I can see, espionage is useless. Theoretically, with the highest level of espionage you're supposed to "steal" a technology every so often. But, over several weeks of play, I think I've gotten one or two technologies that way. For instance, in the last game I played, I pumped huge amounts of money into spying on the Torians (who usually out research me -- and did so in that game). I achieved that top espionage level really early. I never "stole" any technology from them. It would be nice if the game gave some kind of visibility in the "stealing" process. Perhaps, at intervals it could pop up a screen saying I've snuck around enough and have the opportunity to steal a technology: which one do I want?

Peripherally related to that is the "conquest" of a planet by defection instead of by invasion. If a planet defects to me, I'd say I should also get a technology just like I would if I invaded.
7,913 views 19 replies
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree to a point. I never invest a lot of money in it. I let it grow slowly over time. What it does get you, is the information of the special tiles, buildings, and projects that each planet has. I use it to prioritize my invasion order.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
NO! As it is, espionage cannot be countered. If you could reliably steal techs like that, then there would be absolutely no point in teching up...just wait for others to do it for you. Late game, once espionage hits advanced, you don't even need to spend money on it anymore.

It's more than a big enough bonus to be able to see everything they have.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I find espionage very usefull. I use it to see where other races are moving their ships, and which planets hold "wonders" that I want. After spending goes to advanced, any additional spending is wasted, so it would be nice to automatically reduce the spending to 0 at that point though.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree with Martimus, I use espionage to determine whether a race is a) looking to invade me b) is a good choice to invade c) where their ships are going so I can intercept them and blow them out of the sky and/or d) who I should be paying off to annilate them for me....stealing tech is just a bonus... Espionage is all about intelligence no theivery
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
@Martimus
I agree. Especially with auto setting the spending to 0 - I always forget.

@OP -

I get a lot of stolen techs - depends on the game and how advanced I am in research too. If I have all the techs, it's hard to steal things that don't exist!
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now that you mention it, I should be doing more espionage. Money spent on espionage is still more useful than money never spent at all.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really wouldn't mind espionage being a bit more useful and lively (In the expansions, right SD? ) As it is, it would be cool to have my high espionage races be a bit more useful, and be able to keep pouring money into it to give my enemies false information about where my fleets are going to be, what is on my planets (I just heard they have a fleet of 200 ships! Flee in terror!) and pump cash into regularly stealing techs and causing enemy ships to change allegiance. That being said, espionage is fine as it is (Though once more, I'd like more stuff, I know, I know, expansion...) it's just a bit counter-intuitive. The first time I got to the highest level of espionage I didn't know that further spending was useless, and took me a while to figure it out because as far as I could tell such a thing wasn't mentioned in the instruction manual.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
After spending goes to advanced, any additional spending is wasted, so it would be nice to automatically reduce the spending to 0 at that point though.

Please don`t do it SD, would be braindead. Instead of that, you should fall back if you quit spending money and maybe it should just become more expensive to hold on a higher espionage level.
I easily can think of much more improvements to espionage, but falling back on lower levels should be easy to implement.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There are probably two ways SD could go to "improve" espionage. The easy way would be to just remove all reference to stealing Technology after hitting the Advanced level: just use espionage as an intelligence gathering activity on enemy status/movement. The other way would involve a lot more work: add in a counter-espionage capability and bring the spy/counter-spy activity into the foreground via some kind of unit, action, or spending trigger.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They are planning to do that in the eventual expansion. Spy units and all. See the developers Journals here on the site.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've just managed to get advanced espionage on all seven other major races in a game- and I'll say this, it's nice to have when you're dealing with military issues. Being able to see what the computer's building, what weapons and defenses they have on their ships, and so on. Thanks to this, I've been able to enjoy lots of info on what I'll face when I go after an enemy.

I do, however, wish that I'd get some techs. Some of these races I've had advanced espionage on for over a year- but no tech. You'd think between all of 'em I'd at least get something.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Use espionage, and use it early. At that time the cost would be lower. And you no longer have to fund it once it reaches advanced.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I noticed with tech trading off I don't steal tech despite being at advanced. Anyone else noticed this?
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
But... espionage lets you know stuff about your enemy.

And knowing...



Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I actually don't mind espionage being something not quite under your control (like a spy unit), though I wouldn't mind seeing the effects of investment in espionage being expanded a bit more. For example, besides stealing a tech every once in a blue moon, your agents manage to thwart the production of an item or perhaps destroy a building or two. Maybe even steal some of those trade goods every once in awhile. Shouldn't be a regular thing...afterall, there do not seem to be any penalities for being "caught" spying at the moment, however a little bonus from your spy network every so often wouldn't hurt.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Espionage is definitely not worthless. While you can tell what techs another civ has by talking to them, you never really know what they have mounted on their ships unless you can get to a certain espionage level. Then it is as simple as sending a scout through their territory and right clicking on their military ships to view what weapons/equipment they have. I just won a game with ships bearing extra weapons and no defense other than smart chaff, because everyone else had missles - despite being outnumbered and out-teched.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
For example, besides stealing a tech every once in a blue moon, your agents manage to thwart the production of an item or perhaps destroy a building or two. Maybe even steal some of those trade goods every once in awhile.


Oh heck no- not something I'd like to see. Maybe it just shows that I'm underhanded, but I don't limit my spying to my enemies. If you're on the map, I will spy on you until I know everything that goes on in your corner of the galaxy.

Now, with that said, I don't want to see my allies or friends fall behind. Setting up something like this would be an issue especially when I'm trying to support someone in a war.

Would not mind seeing some sort of saboteur thing though- maybe add it to the culture war tech tree. Higher your loyalty ratings, the better you resist sabotage on a given planet.

I could even see a line of supportive tech here- covert ops. Cuts down sensor ratings. You have a Stealth of 4, they have a Sensor of 5, they see you at the same range as Sensor 1. Can't drop below the minimum though- you get close enough they'll see you regardless. Similar thing with planets- outfit a ship with a Stealth module and a Saboteur module, you can get into orbit and send out the saboteurs to do their work. But they get a ship in orbit with a Sensor rating equal or greater than your Stealth, you're seen and you're engaged.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It would be interesting if enemy spies could plant false information in the user's empire... sort of a Wormtongue effect, if you will.