Expansion Packs

A look inside the retail sausage factory

from JoeUser Forums

At some point we want to do an expansion pack.  And by some point, I mean, we have a pretty good idea of what, when, and what would be in said expansion pack.  But there's a lof of "Stuff" involved in deciding what will be in an expansion pack and when it would be launched and how it would be packaged.

First a little primer:  Unless you're mega publisher, if you want to be in the stores for Christmas, you have to be released by September 30th. That's the magic date.  Secondly, unless you're a large publisher, having both a boxed version and an expansion pack on the shelves is really really hard.

So if we want to do an expansion pack soon, we would have to release it either by the end of September (any earlier would be too close to the original release) OR wait until next year (February 2007).

There are also two basic ways of going about an expansion pack:

The Traditional Way.  You release your expansion pack for $19.95 to $29.95 that requires users to have the original game.  This is what big publishers tend to do because they can have both the mega selling original and the expansion. Civilization IV and Civ IV: Warlords would be a great example of this.

The Alternative Way. You release an expansion pack that plays on its own for $39.95 to $49.95.  That is, you basically update your original game to include the expansion pack as an integral part of it.  Disciples II did this.

I don't have a strong preference.  If you take the traditional path, you risk losing shelf space entirely unless you are selling in significant quantity.   If you take the alternative path, you need to find some way to enable people who bought the original game to get the expansion pack without having to pay full price (rebate in box for existing players, or direct download or something). It also has the problem of requiring the existing game be taken off the shelves first to be replaced by the "new and improved" version which can be a real bummer.

Or you could just bypass retail entirely and offer it direct and not mess with any of the problem and release on your own schedule.

 

63,888 views 54 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Another problem with the bundled game+expansion is that unless you hide the release time for your expansion pack, those of us still saving up to buy the game will simply wait until the bundle comes out, saving us money but costing you an extra sale.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How about offering the expansion pack for the lower price, include the main game (as a time limited trial) on the CD with an offer included to buy a serial number for $20 (by phone or internet), which converts the trial into the full version.

This would allow those who already have the original game to just pay for the expansion, and those who don't can get the full game+expansion by paying with a credit card.
This also means that people can reinstall everything at once by installing and entering their serial number.

You would have to make it clear on the box what exactly is included/required, or people might think they are getting ripped off.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It must really be a pain in the neck I can certainly understand why very few if any indie titles release retail expansions. For me personally downloaded a $19.95 expansion would be no biggie but I'm sure people with only dial up would rather be able to get a CD. Obviously you guys will make the desicion that makes the most sense from the business side of things. Going to be interesting just to watch to see how it plays out

In the mean time pass me that Nano Ripper... some Torian just made a comment about my hair
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A difficult one.

Personally I'd pay for just an expansion pack ... but pay about the same as the original price for the game (which I've already paid for) plus the expansion pack? Well, I'd feel I was being ripped off and probably not bother. Just my opinion.

But the reviews would likely be excellent and I'd have to buy it anyway. Stardock, you have me over a barrell
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What's gonna be in it?

Seriously, though, on the two release options, Traditional, and Alternative, Alternative seems like it only works when the Expansion/Game thingie has different content than the original, but also LACKS some prime piece of the original, such as in Guild Wars and it's expansion pack. Both are stand-alone games in their own right, each with a different focus and part of the world. If you buy both, you can move back and forth between them and create either type of character, and also likely have a few bonuses, too. If you go that route, you can remove some features, as well as areas, races, and the original campaign, in a way that people would want to buy the original too for extra content. People who have both would have the content of both, and some extras, and those who have one or the other can enjoy each on their own unique terms.

That being said, personally, I think I'd prefer the traditional if it allows you to build more content into it by not having to create a seperate 'similar but different' game experience that stands on it's own legs. If you go traditional, you can focus simply on expanding an already great game with new stuff. New methods, ships, hulls, jewlery, tech, races, gameplay, campaign, and hopefully many new nifty options we haven't thought of. Any opportunity for creativity and customization in my opinion is a good one. Custom tech, more complicated soldiers, espionage, even more meaningful custom race bonuses, etc. Perhaps some whacky tech trees that don't function like normal ones, or variant propulsion options. Heck, you can even do paths that have forks and only one fork can be taken. Say, two types of engines, once you choose you're locked on that path for the future, could be the same for weapons...

Wait...sorry...got on a side track, this isn't exactly a 'suggestions for expansion' post.

Well, anyways, I think ultimately you'd probably get more units sold with non-traditional, but you'd have more fan appreciation and efficiency in developing the expansion itself with the traditional. Just my two billion credits.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It is not an expansion to the current game if it is a stand alone package. It would simply be another version of the game.

An expansion, to me, is new and better weapons, techs, aliens, ships, ship building tools, planet options, things like that.
Improvements, you know?
Like Sim City 4 to Rush Hour.

I guess I am more in favour of the traditional way.

And worrying about getting it out by Christmas should be secondary to getting it right in the first place.

I would pay 20 bucks for additional content to my current game, but I would not want to pay for another game entirely.
And the rebates? I hate having to pay money up front, then having to mail something in and waiting 6 weeks to 3 months for a few dollars back. That is just a gimmick for the company, hoping a lot of us will fail to get that rebate mailed in.

You said that there were already pretty set ideas on said expansion pack. I would like to hear what you are thinking of doing, so I can start drooling sooner.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well sign me up. Being the Mega-Stardock fan that I am, you know I'll buy it. Even pre-order/ join the beta.

So are you asking for opinions on Traditional vs Alternative? or you asking for ideas for an expansion period ?

I'd vote for traditional. I paid for the "Main Game" so why not? I'd also vote for both. Is both feasible? How about a discount coupon available for registering/buying ? That way a person would get a break on having to have the original game. Net result, sell more expansion units + generate sales for original.

And for the last option, have you upgraded your infrastructure exponentially? Each release its noted you have record sales or more than anticipated. The comments about "we thought we had enough extra bandwidth and we barely had enough "

Well from a player's perspective, I'd judge an expansion against what I know. TBS is my genre for sure. Civ 4 is new yes, but not fair to judge an expansion to one thats not out yet. So I'd have to go it against Civ 3 and PtW or C3C. There's also HoMM IV + Winds of War, etc. So what would I expect ? New units ? That would have to translate first new techs to research first and then new components ? New Scenarios and Campaigns. That's a given. A HoMM expansion has 4-6 campaigns typically plus numerous scenarios/maps. C3C had "Conquests" which were some great scenarios made from Firaxis. SO yeah would expect the GC2 expansion to have some campaigns and scenarios made and blessed from Stardock. X number of new races/tribes/civs to play as. I don't think the number is set in stone, but each one generally has some. Then there is a new kind of wow factor. The unforseen wow, I guess you would call these "new features" that are just cool. Basically it has enough 'essence' to be great and worthy of being a sequel. I'm not accusing Stardock of this, but some games' sequels and/or expansions are remarkably close and just more of the same with a new paint job.

/sarcasm Don't forget to plaster "must update your video drivers " in bright neon somewhere on the box.

/sarcasmoff

PS. I love you guys. Don't stop making games. Thanks.






Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
SimCity 4 started out with an incremental expansion at first and then within 4 months they had a 'deluxe' version that had it all in one package.

I like the other guy's idea. Put out a deluxe version labeled like an incremental, and require either a previous install or both serial numbers with the option to buy the base game's serial number online. That bundles the lower install time and fewer cds of the combo with the lower price of the incremental. A problem with lot of incremental expansions is that the original game is never in stock (Star Wars Galaxies). The problem of instant-serials are the kegen-makers (piracy).
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
NICE a new expansion before version 2.0 is even out. Still it will be cool to have new stuff and who knows they might stop there and start making GalCiv 3!!! Sorry just happy something new is coming out. History=GalCiv+GalCiv A
GalCiv2+????? GalCiv3 so on...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would prefer the traditional method, although that's not going to stop me from getting the expansion. I also wouldn't mind a download, in place of a CD, but that's pretty hard on the dial-up users.

I suppose the question of which to do might come down to this: Are you ready to release the expansion? I mean, if the thing isn't ready by the end of September, then there's no point in releasing it in time for the holidays. In fact, that might be even worse than waiting because of all the idiots who'd get the expansion and find out that it's got bugs. And then they'd come here to complain and tell their friends that it's buggy.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I lean towards the traditional method (I'll almost never pay more than $20 for an expansion pack myself), although it's really up to you and your marketing teams to figure out the economics behind the different options.

That does sound exciting. I get especially stoked about expansions that significantly alter gameplay in one or more ways. Doesn't have to be mind-bending, just something that enhances the replay value of the game above and beyond the original. If it doesn't change the game play experience in at least one major aspect, I'm not so crazy about it.

Just my own $0.02. I'm off to play my next scenario, while waiting for 1.1 to hit the decks!!
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Or you could just bypass retail entirely and offer it direct and not mess with any of the problem and release on your own schedule


I thought this was what was planned, part of the free bonus content. You could repackage the expansion in with the game to have a new shelf box that replaces the older one.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would for sure buy an Expansion Pack that is priced in the $20 to $30 range, I would not buy a expansion pack that plays on its own for $40 to $50. There is only so much that I'm willing to spend.

Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Mostly, I would buy either.

How different would the expansion content be if it came out September, as opposed to Feburary?

Id love to see the game showcased in Computergames Magazine, or PC Gamer in a big sprawl with a full release plus expansion.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I would go with hidden option 3, to release direct and do it on your own schedule. I bought my copy of the game in the store, because they actually had it when I checked with them. If they hadn't, I would have just as easily bought the game direct from Stardock. So what I'm saying is that I, and I imagine many others, would be just fine buying it direct from Stardock when you guys are ready to release it.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While I understand the basic idea behind wanting to release for Christmas (people buy lots of games for Christmas!), in my opinion it is sheer MADNESS to try to sell anything in that cutthroat operation.

For years now, I've been sadly lamenting the fact that we (as a gameplaying community) get NOTHING to play between May/June and September, and then 20 top titles are released within one month of one another in September.
Do publishers/developers seriously still think that trying to compete against dozens of other A-AA-AAA titles is going to boost your damn business?? Sure, people may buy 30% more games at Christmas (fictional number), but if that 30% of extra buying potential gets divided over 30 possible games, what's the point? Is that really worth it?

Some publishers FINALLY figured this out the last holiday season, when they said, in Januari "Wow, we didn't really sell a lot of copies of game XYZ. Maybe that's because we were up against so many other titles?"
No, really, you think so Sherlock?

Oblivion sold 2 million copies in no time flat. Sure it's a great game. Sure it's got a massive fanbase. But do you think, maybe, that the fact that apart from Galciv2, there was nothing else worth playing out at the time? This actually goes for your game as well. Perhaps the fact that nothing to compete against helped boost your sales? You've said you were surprised at how many copies you've sold.
Now imagine yourself at Christmas time. How much do you think you would have sold? As an indy 4X game (your own words). I'm going to guess it wouldn't have even been HALF of what you sold now.

So why, WHY, would you want to sell during the Christmas season? With an expansion pack? I seriously don't understand it.

Every single year, this deluge of games comes out, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, and the gamebuying public chooses between them. Very few people buy them all.

Blizzard became the giant they are today when they, smartly, released Warcraft 2 at a time when everyone else was pushing their game back. Publishers weren't the omnipresent giants they are today, and they didn't always push games out the door just because it was Christmas. More and more developers delayed their release date for their games, said they weren't going to make Christmas. It looked bleak. Then Blizzard released Warcraft2, and it sold about 889 trillion copies.
Now, this may be misleading because they DID sell at Christmas, but the point is that they sold their game at a time when nobody else had anything decent in the stores. They were the only AAA title available.

The gaming audience typically has money for 1 game per period of time. For some this is per week, for most it is probably per month, or per two months or so.
Compete with 20 other games, and you'll see little of that money.
Release your game in a solitary timeframe, and people will spend that money on YOUR game.

Maybe, SOMEDAY the gaming industry will figure out how to spread the wealth. For crying out loud, even HOLLYWOOD figured this out!!! It isn't rocket science!

So, in summary, release your expansion in February 2007.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What seems like the most popular way for putting out expansion packs these days is to first do it the traditional way and put out the expansion pack by itself. Then around 4 months later put out a Gold Edition, which includes the original game, patched to it's latest version, the expansion pack, also patched to it's latest version, and a pdf manual that explains both the original game and it's expansion, and which is updated to explain all the changes to the game and it's expansion since the original manuals were printed.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh Please don't think of charging $30+ for any expansion unless it totally ROCKs. Not even GalCiv2 will have me falling for a crap-hotair-expansion. SE4-Deluxe is a good 'alternative way' expansion, borderline for 'alternative' though. SWG-Jump To LightSpeed is a really good expansion. I will not be buying Civ4-warlords. I fell for Rage of the wookies (SWG) but it sucked and wish i didn't buy it. NWN-HOTU wasn't a very good expansion and the only reason I bought it was the ability to level up to level 40 (it should've been unlimited or sint8 127 / uint8 255). A Map Editor at the same level of SEIV-deluxe - or just exceptional XML-hacking support at the functionality level of SE-4 (nitpick everything - but SE4 can't to scenario-y stuff such as colonies and ships - including use of the random generator to make random maps to use as a base) with extensive documentation - would be such a feature to make me buy a GalCiv2 expansion even if the rest of it sucked.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
From my point of view i would be quite happy to pay $20 - $30 for an expansion pack as long as it carried enough new material to warrant the expenditure.

Option 1 where you release the expansion on its own would probably be more advantageous to those of us who have already purchased the game. Why not use this method as well as utilizing SDC's direct download capability for those, like myself, that purchased the game online as a download...

Using option 2 could result in major headaches for you as the people who have already purchased the game stand up and shout "money grabbers" at the prospect of having to buy the whole game again!

My $0.02

DG
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Oh yeah, I don't do 'mail in rebates'. Make it cheap up front or give an 'instant rebate'. I still like the hybrid full-game in an expansion labled box that requires either an install of the original game or the serial numbers of both the original and the expansion (of which the 2nd optio will install the base+expansion).
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would probably go with traditional. That way you dont have to deal with multiple versions of the game in circulation.

And as to trying to rush it out for Christmas.....I know I may not be in the majority on this....but I am a poor college kid and I will buy the expansion no matter when it comes out. I just have to plead that you guys wait and get the expansion DONE like the origional was. The number of games that come out and just don't work or have serious flaws....it was so nice to be able to pick up a game and PLAY it without many issues.

So, be it Christmas or next year I'll be there to get the expansion.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
another idea if you wish one :
include a stripped down version of the original game inside the expansion box

(for example : galciv2 with a limited number of races available , or a limited number of opponents... or any combination)
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I wuold also go with the Traditional way. Either download only or buy the CD. To echo what other people said here, the Alternative way means I have to pay again for the game that I already payed once. I own GalCiv and it's expansion pack, and GalCiv2 and most probably get the GalCiv2 Exp Pack. But please do not makes us pay the same sum again, for the same game.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As stated earlier, an "expansion" using the alternate method only works if it's basically GalCiv 2 version b i.e. The same, yet different. Guild Wars is doing this, and by making ANOTHER game, yet one that's similar and having the two interact, you can justify full price. Their "expansion" is in fact a stand alone game that plugs into their previous game. That's the only way the alternate method will work.

Go traditional, you don't have the time frame for anything else.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
How about offering the Alternative way at stores for those new to the game, and the traditional method at your website for those already in the know? Those who still buy the alternative way but already have the first one can get some credit to spend at Stardock.