I'm winning battles I should be losing

Invasions bugged?

I just invaded the Drengin. I'm using traditional warfare.

Me: 2000 soldiers. Advantage factor 0. Soldiering 0. Tech 4000.

Drengin: 6000 soldiers. Advantage factor 2. Soldiering 25. Tech 4600.

Now, to my surprise I have an advantage of 20 to 5! How in the wide world is that possible?!
8,400 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top
I believe the attacker gets some extra bonus for attacking, I'm not sure what the multiplier is though.
Reply #2 Top
Attacker gets a 5 point advantage for air superiority.
Reply #3 Top
plus i think that there are some other random numbers thrown in there for the heck of it just to make things interesting.
Reply #4 Top
Attacker gets a 5 point advantage for air superiority.


But that still pales in comparison to his 25 soldiering ability.
Reply #5 Top
Plus there's the Luck factor. Does your race have Luck? (I think there is only one option for luck, +25%.) Maybe the Drengin don't but you do? How easily are you winning these battles? Do you just have 50 or 100 or so soldiers left afterwards, or are you winning by large margins? Also, what is the happiness of the planets you are attacking? If I recall correctly, planet morale plays into how well the planet will fight (I know that the "Information Warfare" option will get plenty of soldiers to defect if you use it, but it seems you're using traditional warfare).

Also, what level are you playing on? Is it possible that on beginner levels, the defense is crippled for the AI players?
Reply #6 Top
This is on Tough.
Reply #7 Top
There's nothing random about the ground invasions. If the invasion is 25v5, you kill 5x as many troops as you lose. So your 1000 troops can kill up to 4999 troops and win. All of the soldiering and tech numbers just modify the single random roll you make to determine the outcome of the fight.

Now how are the advantage numbers determined? I have no idea.
Reply #8 Top
Very odd, i agree, I would have expected the advantage to be much lower... but hey why complain whe your winning!?
Reply #9 Top
it mostly depends on how lucky (not the in game bonus, just plain old human luck) you are when you click the invade button. In the situation you are describing you could get anything from about even odds to about 5:1, which you did. Attackers do get a fairly significant advantage, I believe this is a design desicion to make it actually possible to conquer planets without having to decimate your own population.
Reply #10 Top
Also, if I am not mistaken, the soldiering bonus is at least part of what makes up the advantage factor. IIn other words, the two numbers are related to each other, not seperate inputs to the battle factors.) The advantage factor usually seems to be the soldiering bonus divided by 10.

Again, AFAIK, you do get an air superiority factor of 5 added in if you are the attacker. This is applied to the advantage factor, not the soldiering bonus. In other words, if I am correct in my assumption with the soldiering and advantage factor relationship, having air superiority is like having +50 soldiering bonus.
Reply #12 Top
But that still pales in comparison to his 25 soldiering ability.


That 25 is 25%. A 5% factor would be barely worth mentioning, so I doubt that the air superiority factor is 5%. 5 something, maybe x5, maybe +5, but not just 5%.
Reply #13 Top
There's nothing random about the ground invasions. If the invasion is 25v5, you kill 5x as many troops as you lose. So your 1000 troops can kill up to 4999 troops and win. All of the soldiering and tech numbers just modify the single random roll you make to determine the outcome of the fight.

Now how are the advantage numbers determined? I have no idea


I'm not sure that that is true.

I lost a planet to the Dread Lords in the campaign once. The Dread Lords suffered no losses.

I reloaded a save that I had made the turn before invasion and did let them invade again. This time I actually defended the planet successfully. I don't have hard numbers, but there appeared to be a random element beyond the ratio generator.
Reply #14 Top
There is a slightly random element - I think it is mainly attributable to luck. (This is one way that the "luck" civ attribute can help you.) I have had battles where I had 1,000 soldiers, and the target planet had 10,000 soldiers. The "die roll" was something like 5:1. On a pure numbers basis, I should have lost all of my troops and the enemy should have had 5,000 left. I did actually lose all of my troops, but my target only had 4,940 left.

If the luck factor does something like add or subtract a random 10 or 20, this could especially account for how you would beat the Dread Loards in one battle, and then lose spactacularly to them in the next, identical battle.
Reply #15 Top
The random bit appears to be when you press space to stop the numbers changing.
Reply #16 Top
I think the OP's point is one that almost all of us have noticed: When invading a planet, using even traditional warfare methods will CONSISTENTLY give me huge advantages I shouldnt be having, playing with races that have no "luck" bonus. I CONSISTENTLY notice that despite inferior soldiering skills, my "advantage" factor in the actual battle is many times higher than those of my opponents, no matter which race these may be. This doesnt seem to be a fluke, but a consistent phenomenon. It would be nice to know what exactly is going on here, so -- at the very least -- one might be able to re-evaluate the worth of the soldiering ability, amongst other things.
Reply #17 Top
It would be nice to know what exactly is going on here, so -- at the very least -- one might be able to re-evaluate the worth of the soldiering ability, amongst other things.


It's called, "Allowing a 1,000 population invasion to kill 5,000." Without it, you'd be getting closer to 1:1 ratios, which would make the already difficult planetary invasions even moreso.
Reply #18 Top
There is a bonus for neutrally-aligned civilizations to get a bonus when invading non-neutral civilizations. If you are neutrally-aligned, this might explain the extra oomph in your invasions.
Reply #19 Top
I've seen questions on race abilities and bonuses before that ultimately boiled down to: "Yes the X civ does get a 20% morale bonus vs. the other civs - you just can't see it on the screen becasue of incomplete disclosure." I think this situation is similar.

When you attack a planet, the screen displays your soldiering bonus and tech advantage. I'm not sure how the tech advantage weighs in, but the soldiering bonus appears to have a direct correlation to the "advantage factor". (The advantage factor usually shows up as something like (Attacker advantage:0, Defender advantage 2".) I think there is a problem with lack of documentation on the screen here. It is my understanding that the attacker gets an automatic +5 to their advantage factor for air superiority. I believe (but don't know) that a +5 in advantage factor translates into the equivalent a roughly +50% soldiering bonus. The probem is that this information is not provided on the screen.

This "air superiority" advntage is likely much of what you are witnessing when you seem to always have the "die rolls" go in your favor. I am willing to bet that as the defender's advantage (as disclosed on the screen) gets closer and closer to 5 above the attacker's advantage (as disclosed on the screen), you will find that the "die rolls" seem to come out closer and closer to 1:1.

As for luck (and by "luck", I mean the luck factor actually coded into the game, not the luck of hitting the spacebar) - my understanding is that it plays a minimal factor in the results, basically tweaking the actually battle results slightly to the attacker or defender.