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small vs large fighters

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small vs large fighters

from GalCiv2 Forums
in theory, small and large fighters should be nearly equal
meaning a 10 small fighter fleet will cost the same and be as effective as a 3 large fighter fleet

large fighters have one big advantage over small ones. lets say there are two fleets of equal strength, one of 10 small, one of 3 large
lets say the small ones win (because they attack) by one shot, so 9 of the small ones die and all large ones
the guy that built small fighters now has only 1/10 of his fleet left (after repairs)
lets say the large ones win (this time they attack) by one shot, so 10 small ones die and 2 large ones
the guy that built large fighters now has 1/3 of his fleet left (if he managed to get to damaged ship out of combat and repaired)

so large vessels always have an advantage over small ones - and it should be like that, you have to research quite expensive techs to get to large vessels

this survivel advantage alone is in my optinion enough to justify the cost for large hulls

but there are several more advantages:
with logistics costs as they are and defense system as is, a fleet of many small will never be as strong as a fleet of few large ships - this has been improves in the latest patch but imho is still an issue

and the real, big, very very bad disadvantage for small fighters (and thats why i never build them):
engines !
in a large ship, you can put 2-3 engines AND a lot of weapons
try to but 2-3 engines into a small ship and its full, no more room for weapons
in a 3large fleet there may be 2 engines each ship, so the whole fleet uses the cargo space of 6 engines to go very fast
in a fleet of 10 small ships, each needs to have 2 engines to be as fast as the large ones, so the whole fleet is using cargo space for 20 engines
the fleet containing large vessels can use the difference of cargo space for 14 (!!!) engines to mount weapons / armor
its either lack firepower or lack speed for smaller vessels

any ideas how to play around that? i just use the largest hull available and dont bother with anything smaller ever again (which i find quite sad, i'd prefere to have swarms of small fighters)
33,911 views 33 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's quite wrong. Newton's laws still apply in space and objects in space still have mass. More massive objects take more force to move and will accelerate more slowly with like forces applied when compared to less massive objects.


That would be true if the engines used newtonian mechanics. But if you read the GNN text that comes up with each development, it describes them as technologies for folding space. So one could imagine that the energy/size requirements of the engine being almost entirely dependent on the amont of space bent, not the size of the object moved.

(And with all space games, we must pretend that either relativity doesn't exist or the speed of light is really fast in the GalCiv universe)

Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That and in space itself, newtonian physics are incorrect, as they lack relativity which is introduced by the curvature of space. Trivial over small distances, but interstellar it screws around with things a lot.

That and it's Space travel! Explain away all discrepancies by shouting "Quantum" a lot of times.

Like magic of the 23rd century
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Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Available size and tech has huge impact on what you need for different tasks. And generally you are never at exactly the same tech level as your opponent.

And while I try to keep the number of different designs operating at a minmal level to make it easy to manage you get the most out of a design geared for specific tasks.

Example - Had 2 warship designs, small and medium, that I was using to crush my neighbor (I had the tech advantage so no need to build larger) and was easily overpowering him. But I was caught completely by surprise by pirates. When I diverted a small task force to intercept they sqashed me. My dedicated Hunter-Killer (Designed on next turn ) fixed the problem nicely.

* somewhat off topic. I find a medium sized 'assault cruiser' seems to work on just about most of my maps as my general purpose warship. Start with a medium hull and add a advanced troop module and the outfit like a regular warship with remaining space and start cranking them out. The downside is the loss of experienced ships when they land but if you have 1 or 2 dedicated warships without the modules they still benefit. Regular transports are just a pain to worry about.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
that a medium or a tiny fleet does indeed work has nothing to do with the problem
the problem is, that a fleet of large ships would always be better then the fleet of tiny ships
sure, if you are strong enough, both will work ...
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That would be true if the engines used newtonian mechanics. But if you read the GNN text that comes up with each development, it describes them as technologies for folding space.


Actually, if you read them, you'll learn that the interstellar drives have two components. One component that folds space, and one component that actually moves the ship. The only evidence to indicate that the component that actually moves the ship isn't newtonian is the fact that ships have a top speed rather than an accelleration. I can see where the folding component might place an upper limit on the newtonian speed, but rationalizations can work in either direction.
Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top
This makes no sense. In space everything weighs the same, nothing. So general physics wouldn't apply like that. An engine would move a huge ship just as quickly as it would move a small ship.


What the hell is this? You saying a guy in a space suit could push massive ship just as easily as he can throw a wrench? Dude... you're an idiot. Ever hear of MASS? Yeah. Big, dense things like your head are always harder to push than small, light things like your brain. Somebody ban this troll until he can pass 4th grade physics.

Smaller ships should require smaller engines to accelerate them by the same amount.
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And the answer is.......... Larger ships have more mass. According to Newtons second law: The relationship between an object's mass (m), its acceleration (a), and the applied force (F) is F = ma. Engines produce the force (F). If acceleration is constant at one G then more force (engine push) is required for the ship with the greater mass. But I am sure you guys already figured that out.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
last game i got a fleet of huge ships with beam weapons and beam defense

i got 650 attack and 350 defense

and i was mining NO military resources and i had NO military starting bonus

show me a fleet of small fighters that can come anywhere near those numbers (without military base or bonus! of cause if you pick 50% attack bonus as racial ability its no problem)