Starbases and Constructors: Living the Micromanagement Dream

Here's what I'd be willing to settle for:

1) The ability to make build queues for starbases, and assign those queues to starbases. So when a constructor does hit a starbase, it automatically builds the first module on the list that hasn't already been built. This gets rid of the 5 billion "please choose a module" popups while still allowing you to have somewhat customizable starbases "this one is in someone else's territory, so I'll put a bunch of weapons on it before the mining upgrades".

2) An easier way to deal with rally points on top of starbases (may already be in the works for 1.1, with the fleet management stuff). Including some way to move rally points from one location to the next. This lets me send constructors directly from planets to the appropriate starbase, and by moving the rally point I can send everyone to the next starbase with one command.

3) There is no 3.

This way the basic mechanic is still unchanged (you still build ships and send them out, and they can be intercepted, take time to get there, etc...), but its a lot easier to manage your starbase upgrades and control where everyone is going.

You can already send all ships already in progress to one starbase to a different one, assuming you've set rally points at / near both. Yes, it takes seperate clicks to reset all ships and all planets, but it's hardly unwieldly. Build queues for starbases would be nice, but probably difficult to implement - you'd definitely want some way to override in case a war breaks out and your priorities change, etc. Personally I don't find selecting modules all that onerous - the only slightly obnoxious bit is the time it takes to build the constructors and have them all reach their destination. Constructors ARE pretty cheap though.

Sending constructors to the starbase you want is not micromanagement. I don't see how your way will make you manage any less, Orion Adrian.

In fac tthere's many lame things in your plan, like jacking up a 'constructor slider' right before a fleet hits and poof it is all of a sudden a fully upgraded battle station. And exactly which planet is you 'mini-constructor' coming from? Hmmmm?

A queue would be nice, a constructor rally point would be nice and maybe a starbase summary screen would be nice.

Starbases are not annoying at all. I only get bored when I'm going for an influence victory and am pumping out 5+ constructors a turn.

I think you should be able to tell a constructor "go to nearest starbase that needs a constuctor". That would solve a *lot* of the starbase micromanagement.

Heck, I would be satisfied if there were someway to tell when a base is temporarily or permanently full without sending a constructor or checking the details and trying to figure it out based on current tech level.

I don't mind sending the ships but I also agree on the rally point problem related to starbases.

I would be satisfied if there were someway to tell when a base is temporarily or permanently full without sending a constructor or checking the details and trying to figure it out based on current tech level.

Look at the starbase's details. You should see something similar to 5/8 on it. This tells you how many available modules you have researched that can be put on.
I haven't tested it, but I think you can pretty much ignore the Maximum number of modules. It's linked to the hull size of the starbase core ship (not seen ingame). I think at one point modules were going to take up space on starbases.

Nicest system I ever ran across was Civilization: Call to Power. (I haven't played Civ 4, I got burnt out on conquer earth games so I don't know what its system is like) You had an amount of your revenue that went to "public spending", then, when you wanted to upgrade the tiles you simply opened up the appropriate toolbar, selected the upgrades you wished to build, and clicked them into existence. Eliminates need for constructors (this games version of settlers) all together. It does change a few things about gameplay... like the galactic resources are just a matter of getting the funds to grab instead of physically sending a constructor there first... but thats a small price to pay (and basically inconsequential anyways as the 'public spending' fund is tantamount to a constructor fleet) imo.

go to nearest starbase that needs a constuctor

Define "need".

Many times, I've had production starbases that aren't fully upgraded because I don't want them to be (I like having money, for example). Often, the worlds near there are building constructors.

At the point in the game when you're spending time building vast starbase networks, you're probably not spending your game time on other things. So, even if you didn't have this management to do, you'd just be clicking "turn" a lot...

Define "need". Many times, I've had production starbases that aren't fully upgraded because I don't want them to be (I like having money, for example). Often, the worlds near there are building constructors.

I would suggest need was defined by allowing us to check off a few boxes for each starbase. For example when you are on the detail screen for a starbase there could be the following boxes:

- Miltary modules?
- Military assist modules?
- Manufactoring modules?
- Trade modules?
- Influence modules?

If I only check off the Influence box, then the constructors would consider that starbase full if it already has all influence upgrades. I could still manually send a constructor there, but they wouldnt go there if set to "Auto-construct".

Eliminates need for constructors (this games version of settlers) all together. It does change a few things about gameplay... like the galactic resources are just a matter of getting the funds to grab instead of physically sending a constructor there first... but thats a small price to pay (and basically inconsequential anyways as the 'public spending' fund is tantamount to a constructor fleet) imo.

You could still require a constructor to build the initial starbase and then use a CTP like system to buy upgrades on it.

I have to agree this system is clunky. I just started out, and for some reason constructor ships keep turning starbases into mining starbases, regardless of what the original resource is.

The whole thing is a pain in the ass.

go to nearest starbase that needs a constuctor

Define "need".

Easy solution, put a toggle on each starbase that enables it as a target for auto-sent constructors.

With both options, you can still micromanage to your heart's content, do it fully auotmated, or a mix between depending on which border and what kind of starbases you are building.

I do find this constructor micromanagement to be the most tedius part of the game (plus not being able to "upgrade" core ship designs.)

Another thing that would be nice would be for the map to center on the starbase being upgraded when an autopiloted constructor gets there. As things are, the dialogue will pop up, "Upgrading Influence Starbase 12149" but you've got no idea where it is, and thus, no real idea what upgrades are most important for it. Worse, the dialogue is not modeless so you cant drag the map around underneath even to find which one it is. This is a pain when you've got 3 or 4 starbases being built at once.

Speaking of dialogues... seems the graphics limiter gets disabled when one pops up on the main map screen (also true for the shipyard screen), causing my video card temp to shoot up until the dialogue box (or shipyard) is closed. Very odd... anyway...

I just started out, and for some reason constructor ships keep turning starbases into mining starbases, regardless of what the original resource is.

I think they're suppose to. Pretend there is a deposit of pure morale in deep space, and you are mining it... like that.

I agree that upgrading starbases is just a complete pain. I spend about 30% of my in-game time re-designing, building, moving, and adjusting my economy for the production of constructors. Starbases should just have an upgrade queue and a self-build rate, so you decide ONCE on an order of upgrade modules, are charged for them as the starbase builds them, and you never have to dick around with the damn thing again. Basically... the way planets work.

P.S. I'd love for starbase modules to stack within a freighter. That alone could reduce starbase MM by 30% in some cases.

I haven't tested it, but I think you can pretty much ignore the Maximum number of modules. It's linked to the hull size of the starbase core ship (not seen ingame). I think at one point modules were going to take up space on starbases.

Actually the maximum number is purely the number of modules you can possibly put on it, based on what technologies you have researched. It is purely telling you that you cannot build anything else, because you don't know how yet.

Actually the maximum number is purely the number of modules you can possibly put on it, based on what technologies you have researched.

That's incredibly unclear. At first I thought I had to prioritize modules to prevent an overflow. Then I realized the number really doesn't matter. 61? What's 61? Not the number of modules I've researched in any game, I can assure you.

I won't say "The text regarding starbase modules could confuse newbies", but rather, "The text regarding starbase modules utterly baffled this newby, and still does."

I learned to ignore it early, and now I don't even notice the numbers are there.


By the way... when I upgrade an economy starbase, the numbers in the economy window don't change. Same income. When I upgrade a morale starbase, my approval doesn't change. 72% before, 72% after. Does anyone know if these resources actually do anything? It could be that all this micromanagement is for nonce.

I haven't figured it out yet, but I'm limited to three types of modules, namely station defense, mining, and sensor improvements. How do I add in the Gal Forum or mall or other improvements?

Thanks.

Hmph. So some people are building 'huge networks of starbases' and stuff?? Dang. I've only played a couple of games (just got it) and I've ignored the starbases, other than to take advantage of resource bonuses in my starting territories.

I have NOT noticed any penalty for my deficiency in that area, though I guess I will need another game played w/ the different strategy as a control case.

In both games, all my production was needed for military, military, military. This despite the fact that both times I MEANT to explore the non-military 'victory conditions'. First game, my attempt at 'tech victory' was derailed when I realized all that research gave me a military advantage, and second time my sub-normal neighbor's possession of a Class 18 planet just seems to require violent action.

Guess I'm just a conquer-the-universe kinda guy...

I haven't figured it out yet, but I'm limited to three types of modules, namely station defense, mining, and sensor improvements. How do I add in the Gal Forum or mall or other improvements?

You have to have -

a) Researched the appropriate technology, and
Be upgrading an appropriate type starbase. For example, Galactic Forum is only for Influence starbases.

There are 2 primary types of starbases. Those that harvest the special anomaly resources, and those that you construct where you please.

The resource starbases are ALWAYS listed as "Mining" starbases, because they are harvesting the resource. Whatever type of resource it is, influence/economy/research/morale/military/whatever, it's always going to be listed as a mining starbase.

The other kind of starbase is the kind that you place yourself, and they come in 3 categories... Military, Influence, and Economic. Each inspires bonuses in their area of effect. For example, place some Economy starbases in the path of your freighter lanes and watch your trade income go up. Military bases improve performance of your ships in their AOE, and influence gives you... influence!

By the way... when I upgrade an economy starbase, the numbers in the economy window don't change. Same income. When I upgrade a morale starbase, my approval doesn't change. 72% before, 72% after. Does anyone know if these resources actually do anything?

I've found that it takes time for those resources to take effect, but they DO go up. Check your planet screen, and mouse over the morale rating, it'll show if that planet is getting any bonus from the resource.

I see, I guess it's being listed as "Native Ability". That's a bit misleading.

Well, I wasn't bothered by SB management too much, but this might be because I haven't played big maps yet. So far, I like that erecting a full-blown starbase really feels like the logistic effort it would be. While the idea to just give it a build queue like a planet is easier, it neglects that a planet has a supply of resources and facilities to produce something. For a starbase, at least the material needs to come from somewhere.

What I'd like to see, though, is more information not just about HOW MANY modules could still be built on a starbase (e.g. 5/8), but WHICH. It doesn't help me to know that I could build SOME 2 modules, when these might be completely irrelevant, or not. There just needs to be a button which brings up the same list a constructor would, except that you can't build of course

The "auto-send" option mentioned above would be nice. The "send constructors to this base" checkbox should be a simple and effective solution. It's not a priority for me, though.

I don't think we should rmove using constructor to build starbase upgrades because this will dramatically change the way the game is played. ie constructor being destroyed, diverting constructor to another starbase at the last second, deciding not be build constructor at the planet etc

The main annoyance is in fact the popup message box.
In which case a build queue at the starbase would be nice so it knows what to build when the next constructor arrive without ever bothering the play. It would also allow a way for the player to see what upgrades are available to build.

You have no idea, how many times I have to move the contructor to another starbase because I maxed out my economy upgrades and I don't want to build other types just yet. I also never know when more economy upgrades become available.

I have to agree that shoving 61 constructors into the military base makes things tedious, but I'm not sure if the proposed methods will help or throw the balance out of whack. The only things that I can think of would be really beneficial would be:

1. Better Starbase naming. Bases should be named for their purpose and location, like "Eco Miner 01-05 12,04", instead of "Mining Starbase 1012". I have to do this for all of my Starbases. The color icons in 1.1 help somewhat with differentiating each miner, but this never hurts. The 01-05 in the name is the sector that it is in, and the 12-04 is the coordinates for the grid within that sector. This is 1000x better than a randomly generated number, since A) you can't put 2 starbase into one grid, so you never have duplicates, and you have a good idea where the Starbase is just by its name without doing things like adding minimaps and zooming, etc.

2. Dynamically listing it's modules in the name as well. So that when you mouse over a starbase, the same starbase should say "Eco Miner 01-05 12,04 (10/15)". This would be a GREAT feature, because then I would know just by mousing over the starbase whether or not another constructor or two is needed. Also, please make it so it doesn't list all the modules that you can build as the max, but all the modules that you can build AND have prerequisites for as the max (IE: Smart Drones shouldn't be listed as being buildable unless you get Xeno Factory Construction and Mass Scalling as well).


I think these two additional improvement should go a long way to improving how Starbase upgrading could work. They don't change how the game is played, but will surely make things easier for well... me at least.

Yes this is getting out of frikin hand on a gigantic map with 4 bases per sector wtf!?!?! Micromanagement nightmare is what it is...

I would have only one starbase per sector and only one starbase can affect a planet (If overlapping exists than the mroe built up one takes precedent). I'm so sick of clustering four bases one one side of the sector line and four on the other. Its nuts This does have to change!

Heck, I would be satisfied if there were someway to tell when a base is temporarily or permanently full without sending a constructor or checking the details and trying to figure it out based on current tech level.

AMEN

The point of my plan was to accomplish all the basic requirements of the current game while totally removing micromanagement.

The slider idea didn't instantly jack up a base, it was a percentage of monies dedicated to production at starbases like military, social, research.

Shrinking the constructors -- constructors that are slowly upgrading the base by applying "Starbase production" -- would remove them from tracking like freighers, but still allow them to be attacked.

Sending a constructor from a planet to a starbase would produce a certain amount of starbase production per month for that starbase just like freighters do for money.

Oh and build queues would be easy to implement (speaking as a programmer). Simply put them in order; the starbase would build the first one on the list that you can based on your technology that isn't already built.