terpfan1980 terpfan1980

Are we back in the age of consoles besting PCs?

▼

Are we back in the age of consoles besting PCs?

Perhaps

from JoeUser Forums
Two recent articles here at Joe User and it's affiliated network of forums and blogs have me thinking we are back in a time when the console fanboys are going to be able to claim absolute superiority over their PC cousins.

As an example, see the great article and review here: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion or Draginol's great article on copy protection and the frustrations there of here: Really hate CD copy protection today

Both of these bring up great points as to why gaming consoles can at times be seen as the champion in the always running battle between PCs and consoles for the best platform for gaming.

First, in the case of Oblivion, we see a beatiful game, but one which requires (in the PC world) some very serious hardware. The type of hardware that someone would spend a ton of money assembling. As an example, I recently put together a nice system for use as an MCE box. It cost me approximately $650 - $700 to replace mainboard, case and power supply, cpu, and video card. I kept the drives that I had (large IDE drives, nothing wrong with either, no need to replace really). I wound up with a system with an adequate video card, but which no one would really want to play modern games on. Thanks to the nice folks at StarDock, I could play GalCiv2 on it nicely, but that is because Draginol/Frogboy/Brad and his team have built the game to be friendly to all levels of hardware.

In building my newer system, I went with a mid-grade motherboard that is more than adequate for an MCE box, and which supports the AMD Athlon 64 X2 that I have installed there-in. 3800+ for the speed. A gigabyte of RAM. Approximately 200 gigabytes of hard disc space on the system drive. Again, a nice system for it's purpose, but in terms of a video gaming system, thanks to the lower end video card, absolute crap for playing something like Oblivion on it.

Next, consider the point of Draginol/Brad/Frogboy's rant/article about CD copy protection for gaming. Something that is virtually unknown in the world of console gaming, where the game disc has to be there all the time (ignoring for a bit that there are modifications available for some systems that eliminate that need, but which are of questionable legality, etc.). True, the console gamer is dealing with the requirement for the disc to be in the system, but in the case of the console, it's normal, expected, and not something that ever really bothers the gamer.

All of this gets me back to the point of this article, which I suppose may quickly become a case of console fanboys defending their systems while PC fanboys defend theirs. If that is what those leaving comments want to do, I'm not gonna stop 'em, though I'd ask for thoughtful responses and well stated reasons why you feel your choice would be right, and not simply 'Consoles RULZ' or 'PC pwnz' type replies.

I'll comment a bit more below, and perhaps it might inspire some more discussion from either side.
gaming
20,897 views 35 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
my problem with consoles like x box and such is simply this..... every what 1-2 years the one u have u have to buy a new one. the old ones thy quit makin games for and force you to go with the newer ones. now every time u have to rebuy games for this new system i mean where is the logic in this? me i prefer to keep with my pc games for one reason only when it is time to upgrade just have to get one thing.....and it wont be my vid card for at least 4 years. hell im good for the next 4 years. and i wont have to rebuy all my games i like for anothr console system. imho these typ of game systems are good for the kids and for those parents or adults that may like them your just puttin out good money for something that is needing to be rebought next year probly at x mas time again. its bettr for the big companies to do this but come on now for a consumer who doesnt have money to piss away no bad idea. if you like x-box a play stations keep throwin your money that way dont bothr me one bit i just dont see the since in this myself. just my 2 cents on this thats all. evryone has one if you dont like it then ignore it and move on. have a good day.
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
But a new console version doesnt come out every 1-2 years... hell, the PS2 came out in 2000 and its still going strong.
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I spent hours, certainly like a few of you, on civfanatics.com when civ 4 went out, reading the forums on fixing bugs I had, and potential fixes, and patches to come. That one thing I remember one of the Firaxis folk saying was PC's are so diverse in terms of components, drivers, etc... that it is nearly impossible to get a game properly tested over all those supports. The conclusion was civilization 5 would likely run on consoles. (a bit of a shock to me... though with a mouse plugged in a PS3, it could make it).

On the other hand the good thing they recognized with PC games, is they can be patched:
http://planetcivilization.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Interviews.Detail&id=4

anyway... endless debate.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
dear dudes.

this is a neverending topic...it depends on what you want from a PC or a Console...thats it...and its Etremely subjective...people will never agree on wich one is better...because you dont have a baseline...better for whom...better for what ?
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hmmmm, I think I'll join this debate.

Lets start with my stance. The Personal Computer (PC) is my best friend. Allso, Get the game and it's required hardware 2 or 3 years after it's initial release.

Lets move on.

The primary reason to enjoy a Gaming Console over a Gaming PC, Especially with an internet game, are the total and absolute lack of Viruses.

Viruses destroy computers, and about half of them are made by employees of Sony or Microsoft or any other company you care to name.


Lets move on again.

Media (read, music)

On a PC, your computer scans the disc for a program. When it finds one, it runs it. (this caused a very big problem with Recent SONY music discs, as the discs installed things nobody wanted, and you couldn't remove it)

On an X-box, the only thing looked for, is the music itself. Which means, you'd have to really try to make it screw up.


Moving on again, Controls now.

On a PC, you have more control choices. For example, I'll use an old game (Descent)

On the PC, the game was good, and you could use a mouse and Keyboard. But the besty way to enjoy that game, was with a Joystick. Preferably one with 6 or 7 buttons. And cheap, can't forget cheap.

On the Playstation, (yes, the game is that old) The game was only slightly worse. The biggest gripe, was the inability to Save anywhere in game. The game was perfectly suited to the controller. (which, I'll admit, was revolutionary back then) And despite the inability to use anything else, (due to not having anything else) it worked beautifully.
The twin sticks worked better than a single Joystick. As the one stick, you had to hold a button to do half of your movement. You'd just use the second stick (on the Playstation controller) for the up and down and side to side movement.


Again, controllers.

The PC, you can find a controller made to look and feel like a controller from most well known consoles.

The consoles, I don't care what you want, nobody will ever make a controller for them that isn't merely a bigger, smaller, or better arranged version of the controller that was first designed for the console. (as in, even if you Have a flight sim for a console, you'll never have a Joystick)

The only know exception, is if a Game requires a different controller. (Anyone remember that monster controller sold with Steel Battallion, required to play the game?)


Next, Price.

PC. A decent PC can be gained for something around $1,200 to $1,400 dollars. This includes the innards, the Screen, the Operating System, and the Keyboard/Mouse controls, and basic speakers (sound). Then around $40 to $50 a game, lets say 3 games. No, I'm not gonna say which ones. (and I'm ignoring the constant clearances for old games, like Diablo II)

For a Console. Around $200 to maybe $600, depending on what tech level, and what company. (not gonna mention the bundles) This gets you the innards, and a controller. And maybe a memory card, if your Console of choice supports or needs it.
Then you have to factor in that a decent Screen (read, Television) costs around $600. Yes, this is about a low-to-midrange TV. For a really good TV, its about twice as much. And Hi-Def, around $1500 for a midrange unit (this price is probably wrong.)
Then you need the games themselves. Around $50 to $60 each, for 3 games.

PC total: $1,550. Sorta expensive, And only slightly more than, ...

Console total, X-box 360, standard TV: $1,380. Mind you, this is only a standard TV, all those HI-def graphics you Console nuts are so proud of cost a lot of money, and isn't in this count.

Console Total. X-Box 360, Hi-def Tv: Around $2,400. This still isn't counting a decent Speaker system, but then, I do fine with just headphones. As in, those cheap ones that come with most CD players. About eh, $5 more to the PC price. and not added to the Consoles, because I can't find a TV with a Headphone jack anymore.


I apologize to any I have offended, and for likely price inconsistencies.
I allso apologize for the sheer size of this post. (it just seems really long)
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I'm more of a console person. I find it much cheaper, because the bulk of the cost mentioned above when buying the TV is something most people have before they get the console. And TV's can be pretty cheap if you just want one that will work like a TV...>_>

So taking away the TV cost, I have a ps2 which iirc I payed $150 for. Cost of memory cards: $40. And a bajillion little games alot of which are used....not to mention all my playstation games left over from last gen...but this isn't about the games, but about the base cost...

My computer on the other hand, its getting a bit old, as I've had it for about 3 or so years now, only adding some RAM and more recently some very much needed memory. I've got a few games for it, but nowhere near the amount of games for my other systems.

I suppose an argumant could be made that since computers can do so much more than play games the bulk of the price shouldn't fully count when comparing consoles and games, and taking some of the price off they come a bit more equal....it really depends on how you're living and what you have. Buying a cheap TV and console is pretty inexpensive and will run games as well as can be expected whereas on PC, you'll have to spend more to get better equipment to make things look and run better.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lots of interesting arguments above.

I did neglect the costs of the HDTV above, but I also neglected the costs for a monitor in dealing with PC costs. Granted, a PC monitor (tube type, not flat panel) goes for much less ($120 - $300 range), and a flat panel can also be had fairly inexpensively ($150 - $800 range, depending on specs), but either (traditional monitors or flat panels) can be used with an Xbox 360 if desired. The cable adds about $40 to the cost, but it's available and works just fine.

In my case, the TV that I have is a smallish 26" wide-screen off-brand (Insignia), which I got in the $420 price range. So yes, I spent approximately $850 (with taxes) to get the Xbox 360 + TV/monitor combo. That still is a lot less than a 'pimped' PC would be currently.


Games wise, as said here:
Reply By: Kamakazie    Posted: Monday, March 27, 2006

As long as we're talking about games here, consoles have been winning the battle for a few years now. Sure every now and then we get a truly remarkable PC game (HL2, GalCiv 2, Oblivion), but consoles just get a lot more love from publishers/developers, and the controller allows for games such as Ninja Gaiden, Viewtiful Joe, God of War, as well as any number of platform games and fighting games that could never work with a standard keyboard/mouse setup. There's also the fact that now with the 360 being out and the PS3 on the way, the hardware limitations apparent in the old systems are no longer apparent (at this time) and it will allow developers to work more freely in creating a great gaming experience.


There's nothing that precludes the best games from coming on the console platforms as well as on the PC, or in lieu of coming out on the PCs.

I've seen versions of The Sims, Sim City, Final Fantasy Online, Oblivion, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Fable and others all out on console platforms as well as on PCs. In some of those cases, the games were first on the console, some first on the PC.


Finally (for now), someone above asks when (if ever) consoles had bested PCs -- in the world of gaming, I think it's happened a few times. Every now and then the stars align such that PCs fall behind (generally speaking) consoles for a while due to costs and other factors. My point here (in this article) is that I think we're in such a time again now. Especially with the coming release of the PS3 (fall if all goes well), the coming of the Nintendo Revolution, and the XBOX 360 already out.

I think there'll be some great PC games as well, but for a while again, I expect that the best gaming we'll see will be on the console platforms.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
For me, the PC will always be the platform of choice. Sure I own consoles, but those are for the few quirky games that never get properly ported to the PC.

It usually comes down to a matter of control schemes. With a PC I have at least 105 keys (x2 or 3 if you add in shift and ctrl combinations), plus mouse. I can usually also configure my controls however I like. This opens up a lot more potential complexity for a game. With a console, you have maybe a dozen buttons max. And the control sticks limit how well you can quickly maneuver usually (a mouse is a more accurate pointing device by far). PCs allow for strategy games, for complex RPGs (it's easier to manage Oblivion's UI with the keyboard) and faster-paced FPS games.

The other thing is, while consoles are stable hardware until the next gen replaces them, after about a year, their graphics are outstripped by the PC. The XBox only had a bit over a year lead on the PC with Halo 1 when it was released. By the time Halo made it to the PC, we'd left it in the dust visually-speaking. I personally like to keep close to the edge in terms of graphics. I'm a sucker for good gameplay, but if it has crap visuals, it will hurt the experience for me.

A lot of people go on about the cost factor, and if you look at it from a hobby perspective, it's more or less in-line with what people spend on other hobbies. In terms of hardware, I put probably about $400 into my machine every year. Now, what if your hobby is fixing up your car? Costs a LOT more than that. Miniatures? TONS more. Woodworking, fixing up houses, radio controled vehicles etc... All cost a lot more than that in just equipment and materials. Sure, add a few hundred to that a year for games... but for a major time-consuming hobby, even PC gaming is cheap as hell.

Every time a new gen of consoles come out, people start going "PC GAMING IS DEAD!" but it never turns out that way. And actually, the gap is getting more and more narrow. The 360 is on-par, if not slightly behind PC graphics tech already. Pop a HDTV on a 360 and slot it next to a new gaming rig, and the PC comes out slightly ahead (see Oblivion). The PS3 is still a myth at this point with no real solid gameplay demos to show what it's capable of in-action.

Ultimately, PCs and consoles are suited to different sorts of games. Sports, racing, fighting, 3d platformer belong on the console, the controls are best suited to them. They're also short games you can play in 10-20min chunks without problem. PCs are best suited for anything that requires complex interaction such as FPSs, strat games, rpgs like I said before, and now MMOs (sorry, I don't think they work without a keyboard to type on).
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You also have to consider that Console Software and Games are developed on a PC itself. Again, as previously stated above PC's aren't slated toward a specific use, they are much more versatile, which explains such steep prices for hardware.


That argument falls down when you consider that a computer that is perfectly fine for other uses and mediocre for gaming costs pretty close to the same price as a new console, while the hardware to make one of these mediocre PCs good for gaming can cost several times as much as a console. It's the Gaming hardware, not the PC and its general purpose uses, that are expensive. That does leave the other note about the graphics being better as a reason for the difference.

As far as preferred gaming platforms, I generally play more on consoles just because other than TBS games, my favorite gaming styles come out in the US on consoles and not on PCs. You can't find a good japanese RPG in the US for PC.


Reply #35 from Stardock Forums Top

I think it really is a case of Horses for Courses....


If I want something that can be used to do more than just play games, I will use a PC... but if I want the absolute best that gaming experience has to offer I will use a console. Now if I want to play an RTS, or RPG or something else which "commonly" requires a keyboard or sophisticated mechanism to control/play I will go back to my PC...


Though I have to say this may be changing with the XBox360 having an USB port... it would make it far easier to port games like Neverwinter Nights and GalCiv2 over and be able to get a full gaming experience.


One of the main selling factors for me (especially with the Xbox 360 in mind), is that I can re-use my existing Audio/Visual equipment... instead of having to fork out for a new PC. I get to display the games in a 1080i HD capable projector on a 120" screen, with full DTS sound as well as link not only that, but my old Xbox console into a different room and play either between them or over Xbox live.


I will never throw away my PC, it gets used for far too many things.... but I just dont "expect" it to give me the ultimate gaming experience... it just isn't designed for it.