Alien warships in my territory

from GalCiv2 Forums
I must say that I hate the fact that aliens can just trapse all over my territory. I've got Drengins and Altarians shooting it up right next to planets of mine because they are on opposite sides of my territory. I think that alien civilizations should not be able to send any ships into my territory unless we have made some kind of diplomatic agreement to that effect. Diplomatic relations should have levels which include the ability to send traders at one level, survey (unarmed) vessels at another level, then armed ships and troop transports only when a full alliance is established. I'd even recommend that the ability to send armed ships and troop transports be done only at the very highest level of alliances. It is difficult to defend your territory when the enemy can plant warships anywhere within your territory without repercussion. It would even be nice if you could charge aliens for their transit through your territory, much like countries do here for aircraft transiting their airspace. Again, this is a terribly annoying facet of an otherwise immensely enjoyable game.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your only borders are your planets.The coloured lines you see are you influence borders.Space is to dam big to control any sort of border.You are not talking about a land based border system on tiny planets like Earth, that games like Civ4 cover.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
yea but it would be better if other civs couldnt just park there ships in your influence borers as when you do that to them they tell u to go away
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space" - Douglas Adams

You can't just control the border so easily. And besides, when you've got someone who has influence around one of your planets, that means in theory you can't go to your own planets...
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You can enforce your border by placing a ship at every sinle space around your borders. Would take a lot of ships but that would be the only way to do it in reality
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Besides, if an alien race had influence that completely surrounded one of your own planets, you wouldn't want them to say you can't enter it? That would just be plain silly
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This annoyed me a little at first, but it probably won't change so I stopped thinking about it.

I don't think the poster intended to say there should be a wall that stops people entering your territory, but it would be nice if you could ask a neighbour to show some respect and not waltz in like they own the place.

(For example, Alliance allows all ships to pass, Open Borders allows non-military ships to pass, and Closed Borders restrict all travel (even trade and construction vehicles)).

As for having worlds in other people's territory, I'm not keen on that either. I think I would prefer it if borders were just invisible if they have no affect on travel. They're quite ugly anyway, and often mess up and cross over in tight spots.

Basically all it does is turn the galaxy is a giant chart, which could (and perhaps should) be limited to the minimap, like the population and industry displays. Perhaps an option to turn them off could be in the next patch? (or at least provide nicer graphics for them... please!)
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I realize those are influence borders; territorial borders need not be the same. I also realize how big space is. That makes it *more* important that territory be established.

Consider the Drengin - do you think they would sit by and watch an alien colonization ship head for a habitable planet a few sectors from their homeworld? No they wouldn't, they'd blast it out of existence. Yet the only option one has in that case is to declare war. Next, consider a minor race whose home planet is deep within your influence boundaries - in the game I'm currently playing the Altarians are systematically exterminating these minor races. It seems ridiculous that my only recourse is to either ask the Altarians to make peace (or give them something in trade to make peace) or give away powerful enough ships to help the minor races fend them off. In the former case, not only could those troop transports and frigates take a quick detour and attack me suddenly, but the Altarians could also take what I give them, agree to peace, then turn around and go back to exterminating the minor race a few turns later (this is in fact exactly what they did). In the latter case I'm in danger of having the minor race do something silly and attack me with my own ships that I just gave them.

Any civilization would demand control over the space surrounding their colonies with some other recourse than declaring war. There is no subtlety to this aspect of the game. You either stand idly by and watch ships and troop transports head for your planets, not knowing whether they're headed for you or another alien, or declare war and destroy the ships. One could imagine a polite conversation, like "hey those two troop transports aren't coming to invade me, are they?"

This is why some perimeter of control needs to be established around planets/territory. It need not be the same as your influence boundaries - which could be larger if you are an influential civilization. It may be that powerful civilizations can violate your territorial control boundaries without being in a state of war and without permission - it would then be up to you to decide what to do about it. But if you are powerful enough, you should be able to establish and control areas of space without having to declare war and actively defend the space with warships.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Consider the Drengin - do you think they would sit by and watch an alien colonization ship head for a habitable planet a few sectors from their homeworld? No they wouldn't, they'd blast it out of existence. Yet the only option one has in that case is to declare war.


Think of it this way. There is an option called "Another race has attacked your ship, do you wish to declare war?" You have the choice of YES or NO. The other races always click yes.

Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What would you propose doing when their borders shift to encompass your worlds?
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What would you propose doing when their borders shift to encompass your worlds?



Open boarders treaty?
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
And what is they didn't agree to it?

Personally, I see this as analogous to the seas (especially in the Era of Colonization and Imperialism). The oceans are big and your authority ends where you actually put ships.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Common sense says both of the alien races would avoid fighting anywhere near you for fear of accidentally dragging in a third party. BUT... space isn't just left and right; it's up and down also. I don't see how you can volumetrically cover all of that. Besides, just because they're in your territory doesn't mean they're "in your territory". They might be 100 light years "up" from you duking it out.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Maybe the problem is, that they look too much like Civ 4 borders, and people expect them to behave the same way. I couldn't care less either way, but I would prefer the option of turning off the borders. They're not nice to look at, and they convey information that isn't relevant to where your ships can go. Other aspects of your colonies (manufacturing and population for example) are only displayed on the minimap, and I feel it would be better visually if influence was the same. I won't throw a hissy fit over it, but it would be nice.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I hereby claim, for all of humanity, all the space from the earth to a million squillion miles out in all directions!

Now, enforcing it is another thing.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Regarding the three-dimensionality of space - galaxies are often "relatively" flat; that is, their shape is roughly in a plane. Of course on the scale of galaxies, that thickness of that plane is enormous, but it is small in comparison to radius. There are other galaxy shapes for which this is not true, however.

Regarding what would happen if a colony became "isolated" by territory surrounding it - it would be like Berlin after the end of WWII. It would have to be self-sustaining, or you'd have to have agreements with the surrounding alien(s), or you'd have to run the blockade.

The analogy to international waters is interesting - I hadn't considered it like that previously. Extending that analogy, a "territorial waters" circle around planets (or systems) could be established (perhaps by the Council). I would think that Starbases would not have this (or would have a separate buffer established). I'll try to think of it like this and see if it stops annoying me ...