I bought the game on principle

Wow! I bought GalCivII because I liked the game, but I'd do the same even if I didn't.

I do hope you like the game though.

The revolution just keeps getting stronger - one voice at a time!

What we really need is a global month long boycott of purchasing ANY game titles with copy protection. Further a solidarity boycott from the console people regarding titles for those platforms from the same companies.

That will send the clearest signal to the industry they have every herd.

Um, I'm kinda a noob to all this, but why do we hate copy protection?

Tycho on Penny Arcade summed it up pretty well in wednesday's newsposts. We all don't like copy protection, but nothing to we is going to stop developers from using it.

It's somewhat pointless to "boycot" games that use starforce unless someone in the media is trumpeting your boycot as a big deal expected to have X impact on sales.

Between Iraq, midterm elections, and a whole lot of real issues going on right now, I don't think StarForce's crappy business tactics are going to get a lot of attention anywhere but on G4TV...which hardly anyone watches.

Um, I'm kinda a noob to all this, but why do we hate copy protection?

Copy protection adds overhead to your pc. It can be a minor nuisance. It's annoying to have to put the cd in the drive - I own the software, right? Do you put MSOFFICE in the drive every time you run EXCEL?

But the latest copy protection scheme, starforce, is malware. It damages PC's. It screws up your operating system causing pauses and stutters in other games (like 'Falcon 4') . It slows down eide transfer rates which turns your fabulous gaming pc into a slow, stumbling piece of shit. In the process of stepping down drives it can physically damage optical drives. I'm supposed to pay money to wreck my PC just to play a GAME? A GAME????? Game companies using starforce can KMA. I will NEVER buy any 'starforce protected' game. And I would advise you to do the same.

-MB

Well, Starforce in particular, aside from essentially saying "You should pirate GalCiv II", puts software on your system that can, after time, literally cause irreversible hardware failure in some DVD burners. Also, the principle of the thing is, for me, even more important. When I buy I game, I want to be buying just that, the game. I don't want to be purchasing what essentially amounts to malware, that installs itself and grants other applications low-level access to my system.

The copy protection is always circumvented somehow, anyway, and all this does is degrades the experience for the very people who aren't pirating the games. When it's the paying customers getting the shaft on the deal, something just isn't right.

I don't mind copy protection - as long as it is unobtrusive. Quake was the first game that I remembering having a “good” copy protection scheme. It was annoying having to input CD keys and what-not, but it is palettable as long as it was a very good game. (If not, I wouldn’t bother with it. Not worth my time if it might just be ok, cause the copy protection schemes are too much of a pain to go through – EVEN THOUGH I BOUGHT THE GAME.) Now they have even more obtrusive software that comes with games that doesn’t just bother the game itself, but other software you have on the computer. This is beyond annoying now, to the point that I won’t buy any game that has these programs attached – no matter how good the game looks. (Such as HOMM 5, which employs Starforce.) I don’t want to handcuff my computer by installing these copy protection schemes that they have, so I won’t buy the software.

Between Iraq, midterm elections, and a whole lot of real issues going on right now

There ARE other places in the world than the US of A you know?

The European market has a host of different bodies that could start pulling the plug on StarForce if it is proven to cause security issues.

I would say Asia too... but everything out here is pirated anyway... even the StarForce "protected" games.

Heh, Newsweek reported that almost 90% of software in China was pirated, 72% in India, and somewhere around 70% for Thailand

The European market has a host of different bodies that could start pulling the plug on StarForce if it is proven to cause security issues.

ROFL, yeah....European politicians are less corporate-money lackeys than ours in the US? gimme a break. It was only after enough people threatened to sue Sony, that they stopped using their rootkit. To my knowledge, not one single politician said ANYTHING about it.

Plz ignore above post. Crap day at work, wish I was home playing GC2 or watching Final Four. Sorry.

Heh, Newsweek reported that almost 90% of software in China was pirated, 72% in India, and somewhere around 70% for Thailand

That's rather normal.
Some companies really do not mind being pirated by the large poorer masses for some time. Microsoft surely didn't mind the third world and developing world using warez copies of Windows and Office. Those people weren't gonna pay anyway so if they use something it's still better that they use your product stolen than a legit copy of a competitor (or even better, no copy at all). Microsoft penetrated the markets and only now they're starting to put pressure on certain area's of the world to start paying something ...

Same goes for Adobe Photoshop and 3D Studio Max. As long as developers, companies and anyone else who makes money of using these programs or just uses them professionally pays 500 to 5000 $ for a license they're fine. They know thousands and thousands of teenagers, students and other home users are using cracked versions of their programm, but again, those home users are not the target group. Those warez copies won't cause lost income as no teen or student got 500 bucks and is willing to spend it on a toy (that's what it is for us, let's be fair), but they do help to make THE standard product.

Two goals here :
- Let potential future buyers get used to your software and charge them later
- Let people outside the target group increase the overall popularity of your product.

That's the problem with comparing games to standard applications though. For games, the younger crowds are the main target audience, while for almost all applications they're not. Therefore game developers often feel more threatened by piracy (done mainly by the youth) than application developers.
Sure, some pirated copies will increase sales. I admit I downloaded a pirated version of the GC Altarian Prophecy myself, only to actually buy GalCiv II earlier this week (which I wouldn't have if I never played GC at the time when I didn't have cash to buy it anyway). But overall, I think it's safe to assume that game developers have the most to lose when it comes to piracy as it their target audience that pirated the games... I would probably have bought more games myself if I didn't download warez that often in the past, I'm honest about it. I would never have bought PhotoShop or 3DSMax though.

But also in the games category, strategy games are less vulnerable to piracy than FPS or RTS games which are generally played by a younger and poorer audience that is way more likely to pirate the games (but then again, those games are all copies of the first FPS or RTS with new graphical updates, but that's just my opinion)
So from a strategic point of view, yes, it is very logical that game developers with a target group existing mainly of teenagers are more "protective" of their software than application devolopers and therefore some statements like "Office of Adobe Photoshop don't require you to insert the disk everytime" are a bit of a malice comparison.
Stardock, being active on both markets, probably know this as well and are using their "no copy protection" as a major publicity stunt to get their relatively unknown games out to the large audience, in which they have succeeded very well. I wouldn't be very surprised though that if they'd make a GC 3, they'd put some mild form of copy protection on the game because it has gotten truly big now and piracy will eventually hurt them more than it did before. That is what I would do at least ... or perhaps I'm just a bit too capitalistic.

Just my take on all this

Honestly, I never support corporations or large companies and if someone can pirate a game, I generally say, "Good work" for somebody when they do.

When it comes to Stardock and Galactic Civilizations, I'll tell you this, I just straight up hand over the cash. When I tell someone about the game they ask me for a good torrent site and I just say, "Just buy it. It's a quality product and you won't get buyers remorse." and they listen just because they know my stance on pirating.

I love Stardock, I love Galactic Civilizations, and Starforce really needs to choke a fat juicy one. Here's my support to an awesome company and a fricken awesome game. You guys are amazing!

I'm not as hip to this copy protection crap as most gamers appear to be, how new is this Starforce thing? Does someone have a link listing which games use this brand of c.p.? I doubrt I have any games using this (my pc is out of date so I can't play a lot of the newer games), but I want to avoid supporting that sort of business model when I buy games in the future.

What motivated me to get GalCiv II wasn't the no c.p. thing but something I saw on this site that I haven't seen in at least a decade: a dev that actually gives a damn about thier customers. I'm sure there are other devs out there that DO care about thier customers, but I suspect that the majority of their goodwill is squelched by the publishers they work with/for.

EDIT: As a side note on piracy; in China you can buy any (pirated) DVD for $1, regardless of content. To combat this, the "legitimate" DVD market is selling their movies for $2 each (while I still pay $19 to $25 per disc here in the states). I guess the lesson to be learned here is: Do the right thing and still you pay top dollar; steal like crazy and you get a steep discount as punishment.

To Cartier109: here's Y: people like me can't even play halflife 2 because I'm not on the internet at home (only at work which is where I'm writing to you now). Its S**T like that that makes me want to get pirate games just to spite the dicks who came up with stupid ideas like Valves. They can suck it hard and i cant wait till i can find a pirate way to play their game. DICKS!!!!

The sad part is.. for all the hassle you need to go through to play Half-Life 2 and how worried they are worried about how their then $50+ precious game is going to get pirated.. they failed to realize one thing..

1. Gal Civ II has no piracy protection.
2. Gal Civ II is cheaper.
3. Gal Civ II and Stardock have a fanbase that is actually loyal to the company.
4. Gal Civ II is actually leaps and bounds better than Half-Life 2.

Keep up the good work Stardock and everyone there. You've got a customer for life.

I don't mind the milder forms of copy protection, having to have a CD in the drive, etc. (since a no-CD crack is easy to come by, even for someone as technologically impaired as I am), but Starforce and others like them take it to an unacceptable level, even before you factor in their staff's appalling Mafia-like behavior.

That said, as I see the game industry leaning more and more towards punishing the consumer to the point where it's actually easier to pirate a game than to buy it and have to struggle with getting it working, I'm starting to wonder if it's worthwhile to buy mainstream games at all. The last several I've bought have been from indie publishers, and in many cases they're actually more enjoyable than anything I've played from a major company, even if the graphics aren't quite up to scratch. Right now Bethesda is about the only large developer I have any respect for at all...

And Izra'il Metatron, there's a list here: http://www.similarities.org/starforce.html

I don't really care about most of those, but the upcoming HOMM5 is supposed to use it. Sigh.

Edit: I did notice Heart of Winter has it...anyone know if Icewind Dale II does as well?

Thanks for the link, Luminae.

Ugh, I have one of those games (Silent Storm); and there is one on that list that I want to get once (if) there is a US release (The Fall: Last Days of Gaia), but the more I hear about this Starforce the less likely I am to buy it if it ships with that c.p.. Looks like it'll be bargin bin and Stardock games for me from now on.

The thing is - if the software industry was REALLY serious about stopping piracy - they'd set up a standard national (or even international) software licensing system... One of the main problems with computer software is that it's kinda half-way house between flat copyright protection, (like music cd's or consoles - which dosen't really work so well anyway) - and a 'proper' licensing system instead of the joke EULA's we have atm.

The upside for the industry from a proper licensing system, is that piracy should be minimal since any leaked copy can be traced back to it's original licensee - so they'd know who to punish...

The upside for the consumer is that there will be NO copy protection etc. - since it will be illegal - (the length of the license will be for the licencee's lifetime - at least under UK law, so it's illegal to stop them from backing it up).. In some ways similar tot he system Stardock has, TBH

Of course, the downside is the cost of setting up and maintaining the system, but....

ThanksLuminae! That is a great resource. I happily do not have any of those games (though a couple I was interested in before but heard they had Starforce).

Dang it, though, I wanted HOMM5... Oh well, if it has Starforce, I won't buy....

I don't mind the milder forms of copy protection, having to have a CD in the drive, etc.

I agree. CivIV is like that. Most times I'll concentrate on one game and play it to death, which means the CD is going to stay in the drive anyway. Until it came time to load GalCivII, I hadn't even removed my CivIV CD since the day I'd installed it. After installing GalCivII, I was happy to find that I didn't need the GalCiv CD in the drive to play, so I returned the CivIV CD since I'm currently in an SG game over at CivFanatics.

But "copy protection" that loads to your machine's boot sector and hijacks drive functions, that's just wrong.

I can't even play Half-Life 2/Counterstrike anymore, after a month the thing would not update properly to the server to d/l whatever it needed and that wouldn't allow me to play that game anymore. So thats ONE copy protection that ruined 50 dollars worth of money.

A second example is Rome: Total War. I had to use the CD in the Drive, and when I uninstalled it and reinstalled it to another drive with more space it didn't work. It got stuck at 100% install and wouldn't go any further. That again is ANOTHER example of copy protection ruining the game. Since I can't play Rome Total War I was unable to continue to mod it, aswell I wanted so badly to try the expansion pack, but since I could no longer play the original I was unable to play the expansion.

Oh well wont be buying games from them or their companies or publishers any more.

anyone know if Icewind Dale II does as well?

It doesn't. Or at least, when I purchased and installed IWD II a couple of years ago I did not have to deal with starforce.

I bought the game on principles too. The principle that Stardock kicks ass. I own all their games and will continue to purchase any more they make.