Unit Cap SUCKS Big Time... Any workarounds?

Huh?

There is no unit cap.


And here's a lesson in constructive posting:

Your post SUCKS big time!

Wow, that's useful.

Ok, I'm not quite sure I 100% understand what you're saying, but you want to increase the number of ships that can be in a fleet, right? Because as far as I can tell there isn't anything but the size of your treasury right now that would limit the total number of ships in the game.

To do what you're saying you'd have to reduce the cost, effectiveness and upkeep of every single ship in the game to make up for the fact there are more ships by orders of magnitude. You would probably have to make it so multiple ships could be made on the same planet at the same time to conpensate for what would otherwise be an impossble task of building hundreds of ships in the early game with only a few planets. If you don't make these changes it would: a) be nearly impossible to make anything but the cheapest fighters in numbers anywhere near what you're talking about, you would never be able to afford the upkeep for tens of thousands of ships, c) these super fleets of yours would be so powerful as to make combat a bygone conclusion.

There's also the matter that controlling ten THOUSAND ships of various classes and intents would be a mind-numbing task for the most part (even if they ALL end up stabbing other people's ships, the HOURS it takes to command and even -process- the moves makes the idea unattractive. And think about how long the AIs would take to run through ten thousand ships, or the time in design and coding to get the AIs to USE that many ships right.) So having that many ships is simply a very terrible-bad idea.

Also: I imagine the game is, after the first priority (a damn good strategy game) is met, steered toward story more than realism, but yeah, it won't exactly be a fun time for real life humies to build that many ships with the resources we can get at EVER, even assuming we reach the technologies and ranges of exploration that either GalCiv title does.

You could always just imagine that every one ship you make is actually a hundred of 'em.

You could always just use the scenario drop down menu, and select the one that says "Giant sized fleets"or some such thing. This increases your logistics variables and allows fleets to have huge numbers of ships in them.
Or, research the logistics tree.
Or Both.

If you are talking about total ships in game...

AFAIK there is no limit to the total number of ships in game, no matter the scenario. If there arent enough total ships for you, just build them faster

10,000 ships would be waaaay to much for your system to handle. Even if it magically could somehow, the AI would take 20min or more to complete a turn trying to crunch all those numbers.

That said I think what you are wanting is a bigger and more epic feeling fleet, right?

There is a custom senario in the game that significantly raises the logistics numbers. Through this senario you can have huge fleets. Have fun.

says "Giant sized fleets"or some such thing. This increases your logistics variables and allows fleets to have huge numbers of ships in them. Or, research the logistics tree. Or Both. If you are talking about total ships in game... AFAIK there is no limit to the total number of ships in game, no matter the scenario. If there arent enough total ships for you, just build them faster

Hmm... ok. You're right about the epic field. Back in MOO3 (ok I know GalCiv 2 is no MOO), I could field fleets that had hundreds of ships (with the correct mods), and I had several thousand ships (of all kinds) in reserve. I was hoping that such stuff would be possible in GalCiv 2 too.

That many ships would be a nightmare of micromanagement. They've have to change how starships work, to something like Moo3

Hmm... ok. You're right about the epic field. Back in MOO3 (ok I know GalCiv 2 is no MOO), I could field fleets that had hundreds of ships (with the correct mods), and I had several thousand ships (of all kinds) in reserve. I was hoping that such stuff would be possible in GalCiv 2 too.

You know, I'm not sure that your point is well made by saying that the feature was in MOO3. If anything, it is weakened.

in my opinion its not inpossible to create epic feel but it needs some work, first of all tiny and small ships can be converted to fleets as opposed to single units, let me explain before people jump the gun...


basically tiny and small building them would not create one single fighter but 1 single group of fighters with a equivelent rating, this group functions exactly like a sigle fighter in terms of stats, graphically speaking you get 1 fighter per a hp of unit, so a 6 hp fighter will actually show 6 tiny ships (but would function just the same as a single 6 hp fighter in terms of stats)


Medium ships and upwards should continue to function as they do currently

It's easy to mod in, just crank up the logistics abilities in the race configs or increase the bonuses yielded by logistics reasearch (also in some XML file).

My question: why? It's not so much gameplay changing as it is aesthetic, or maybe useful for "role playing". In the end the game will just be chugging along, which I would suspect would take the fun out of watching fleet battles anyways.

In the beginning of the game, you cant build big ships anyway. You don't have the tech required. Just tweak all the abilities in the raceconfig.xml

you are NEVEr going to have thousand ships, the upkeep would ruin you quicker than you could build them.
Besides you can have as many ships as u want ingame.
In combat however, if there wasnt a logistics limit, the only thing you would be able to see with 200 ships in combat at once would just be tiny dots, the camera would be zoomed out so far that the ships would be compromised of 1 polygon lol
Would that be fun to watch? No

So let me get this straight.... Based soley on a description you read, having never actually played the game or understood the mechanics of it you decide to visit the boards and post a flaming post about how much an aspect of the game totally "SUCKS" because... you say it does?

Please play the game before complaining about it. The number of ships and units works fine considering how this economy and combat system fits together. Asking questions about content before you play it is one thing, but flaming the game for something that isn't even broken just makes you look like a jerk and invites flames.

This isn't MOO3. This is better than MOO3. Although it doesn't have the tactical battles that MOO3 did, I don't really miss the buggy as hell MOO3 combat system. Point defense actually works in GalCiv2 (missle defense never really worked reliably in MOO3 even after all the patches. In release it was worse and never, ever worked without strange workarounds and sacrificing poultry). You don't have to let the AI handle half the battles because otherwise you'd get slaughtered by the enemy first strike, and you don't have to manually control some battles to ensure that your ships actually try to fight instead of run into the corner and hide. And don't get me started about watching an AI battle only to realize its a stalemate with a 10 minute timer and no way to stop it..... So what if you don't have up to 180 ships on your side (of which, you could only really control 10 things max anyways), the battles end up playing out a lot better and a lot fairer.

So let me get this straight.... Based soley on a description you read, having never actually played the game or understood the mechanics of it you decide to visit the boards and post a flaming post about how much an aspect of the game totally "SUCKS" because... you say it does? Please play the game before complaining about it. The number of ships and units works fine considering how this economy and combat system fits together. Asking questions about content before you play it is one thing, but flaming the game for something that isn't even broken just makes you look like a jerk and invites flames.

Gee what the hell is your problem? I am the person playing the game, and I am entitled to my own opinions. I find games with low unit cap extremely irritating, you have a problem with that? And the unit caps are LOW. Perhaps there is no limit to the no. of ships you can build, but factoring in maintenance costs, it seems that the no. of ships you can field is only going to be in the hundreds max.

Do remember that not everyone must confirm to your ways... you sound like an idiot fanboy who got his day soured because somebody picked a flaw in the game he is playing.

This isn't MOO3. This is better than MOO3. Although it doesn't have the tactical battles that MOO3 did, I don't really miss the buggy as hell MOO3 combat system. Point defense actually works in GalCiv2 (missle defense never really worked reliably in MOO3 even after all the patches. In release it was worse and never, ever worked without strange workarounds and sacrificing poultry). You don't have to let the AI handle half the battles because otherwise you'd get slaughtered by the enemy first strike, and you don't have to manually control some battles to ensure that your ships actually try to fight instead of run into the corner and hide. And don't get me started about watching an AI battle only to realize its a stalemate with a 10 minute timer and no way to stop it..... So what if you don't have up to 180 ships on your side (of which, you could only really control 10 things max anyways), the battles end up playing out a lot better and a lot fairer.

Never said GalCiv2 was MOO3... I was using it as a comparison though. And if you were too retarded and too impatient to stick on with MOO3 and appreciate it, then I can't help you there. If you bothered to stick with the game (and with some help from the modders), the problem you encountered in MOO3 wouldn't be there.

Gee what the hell is your problem? I am the person playing the game, and I am entitled to my own opinions. I find games with low unit cap extremely irritating, you have a problem with that? And the unit caps are LOW. Perhaps there is no limit to the no. of ships you can build, but factoring in maintenance costs, it seems that the no. of ships you can field is only going to be in the hundreds max.

Seems like you are still misunderstanding the point here. There is NO unit cap, they are NOT low, they are not medium, there is no unit cap.... let me repeat that once more... there.....is.....no.....unit....cap! If you build a big enough economy, sure you can have thousands of ships (if you really wanted to).... My current game I am making 9000bc per turn... I can field a ridiculous fleet if I want to.

So, if you value having thousands of ships, you, the user can adopt all your strategies towards that end. That's an example of an open game. It is not a flaw....

Call me a fanboy if you will, but basing a thread on an incorrect assumption and then squealing about it and verbally abusing people who tell you that you are mistaken seems to mean you havent been researching your diplomacy techs hard enough!!

Call me a fanboy if you will, but basing a thread on an incorrect assumption and then squealing about it and verbally abusing people who tell you that you are mistaken seems to mean you havent been researching your diplomacy techs hard enough!!

I think it means the opposite. He's used to maxing out her diplomacy tech so he's forgotten how to be diplomatic.
No techs in the forums!

Theres one other point though I dont see mentioned.

The attacking fleet always fires first and should the defender take enough damage they wont fire back at all.
Lets imagine having a fleet of like 10000 ships put into one fleet (ignoring upkeep and logistics), the only chance anyone would have against that fleet is to, aswell, put all his ships into one fleet..effectivly haveing one fleet per player.

In Moo2 it was alot different because you could be sure (if tech wasnt too vastly different) that you could at least damage such a huge fleet with smaller numbers...in GalCiv not necessarily.
Imagine your 5000 small fighter fleet being attacked by 10000 of your enemy...yours all die, their's dont have a scratch.

There is no theoritical unit cap no...
A practical unit cap however, there is.

Preferably, I'm looking towards 10,000+ ships per faction towards late game... and no I'm not talking about pure fighters but a mix of fighters, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, battleships, etc.

Well, if you have that many ships, you need to have way of countering them. It remembers me MOO1, where you can have stack of 32K small fighters. Very annoying if you didn't know how to handle them

Well, if you have that many ships, you need to have way of countering them. It remembers me MOO1, where you can have stack of 32K small fighters. Very annoying if you didn't know how to handle them

Grav beams or megablast cannons. Damage carries over versus bonus to hit, you choose

Grav beams or megablast cannons. Damage carries over versus bonus to hit, you choose

I was thinking about anything that can damage all units ate the same time or reduce their hit points

As noted above, the economic model isn't designed to support huge numbers of fleets, due to the initial cost, upkeep cost, and build time. And also the limited number of planets, and the restriction of one starbase (ship builder) per planet.

If those factors were changed to allow thousands of ships to be built more easily, it would probably mess up the game balance for the early to mid game... essentially flooding the galaxy with cheap guns. Conquest would probably be the preferred strategy, instead of just one option like it is now. The current game is based on "expensive guns," so you build fewer of them, each one is more important, and the benefits of war are balanced against other strategies like trade, influence wins, etc.

I suppose there could be a new fleet build tech that would suddenly kick in during the endgame, with vastly reduced cost, build time, and upkeep, so you could have vast fleets in the endgame while still keeping the current dynamics for the early phases. But then we get to the second problem....

There is no polygon limit in the ship builder. As it is now, it's possible to create a very complex design that will make the game crawl, on anything but a very hot gaming computer. And now we're going to animate hundreds or thousands at once? No, not really. I wouldn't want to see a restriction on the ship builder and polygon count, just to support bigger fleets.