AI - Emperors new clothes

If the AI is building embassies all over then you're not playing at a high difficulty level. That's one of the low-intelligence algorithms on planet set up.

I'm not saying the AI is perfect, but I think you should turn up the difficulty. The AI plays differently at different levels, particularly in terms of what it researches and what it builds on planets.

If the AI is building embassies all over then you're not playing at a high difficulty level. That's one of the low-intelligence algorithms on planet set up. I'm not saying the AI is perfect, but I think you should turn up the difficulty. The AI plays differently at different levels, particularly in terms of what it researches and what it builds on planets.

All races are on intelligent. I was under the impression that enabled the toughest AI.

I agree that the AI is pretty bad. It has a few big bugs(speed, starbases, transport protection, hull size, rapid expansion, fleet forming, etc) that really disable it, with a few tweaks the AI should be a lot better. But I don't think it's a case of the emperors new clothes. I think everyone knows the AI is just as dumb as in most games. There was a thread a few days ago asking for smart things you've seen the AI do, there were no responses or stories of smart AI, only dumb AI. I do notice the AI with tons of influence on higher difficulties, a little too much if you ask me but oh well.

And yes, I play on Crippling (one step below suicidial I believe), Frogboy. On normal maps and on the duel maps. Duel map is kinda funny, silly AI starts to trade with me, lol guess I should set it to always at war.

If you give the AI some room to expand, crank up the difficulty and don't abuse any obvious exploits the game should be fairly challenging and fun.

Although I gotta ask, man what is up with the freighter and constructor spam while in a war, Frogboy? I mean dang the AI shouldn't build many constructors or freighters in time of war if any at all.

I opened up my savegame and looked at the planets Thalan Empire gave to me when they gave up. This is in Sept 2235, so quite some time had passed. All races are intelligent.

Five planets. Each have a Starport and Orbital Fleet manager.

Planet one:
Manufacturing capital
4 Manufacturing Centres
6 Embassies (!)
Multimedia centre
Xinathium Hull plating

This is actually somewhat decent. By far the best planet they managed to construct.

Planet two:
Multimedia centre
3 Embassies
Stock market

Not a single factory building here.

Planet three:
Manufacturing centre
Multimedia centre
Economic capital

Why on earth put Economic Capital on a small world without any economic building?

Planet four:

Manufacturing centre
3 Embassies
2 Xeno Farms
2 Multimedia Centres
Stock market
Technological Capital.

Why on earth put technological capital on a planet without any research?

Planet five:

Manufacturing centre
Research
Stock Market
Multimedia centre

So on five planets they had seven factory buildings and one (!) research building. Huge amounts of embassies. Two out of three capital buildings are built where they are useless. This is poor AI if you ask me.

I have found the A.I. to be pretty decent, with only the occassional blunder. Though it does seem that certain races are much more effective than others. Part of the problem is that the racial bonuses really aren't balanced all that well. Stardock has promised improved A.I. with the 1.1 patch, hopefully they will rebalance the bonuses as well

I notice the puny-starbase problem alot, but a good percentage of the planets I take over have a fairly good buildout on them. There are exceptions however. Frequently they waste food bonuses permanently by putting galactic achevements or trade goods on them. Sometimes they also waste morale bonus tiles. They are usually pretty good about using manufacturing and research tiles though. I usually do a little bit of tweaking on the planets after I get them.

I've been playing the AI on normal though.

Well all I can strive is to do my best. In the meantime, just crank the difficulty up.

I will take exception to "the AI is pretty bad" though.  Pretty bad compared to what?

Frogboy, is it possible to make an option to give the AI the same intelligence as on the higher levels, but then on the lower levels.
Currently I'm still a rookie, so I can't play on intelligent yet, I need more practice.
But in a meanwhile, I would like to see the AI adapting to my status. So an option of 25 and 50 % economic penalty with full AI would give me the opportunity to see the real AI without getting slaughtered right away.

Bulen.... why not just start a game on intelligent and see how it goes.... that's surely a much easier answer than asking the developer to write code and release it into a future patch.

I will take exception to "the AI is pretty bad" though. Pretty bad compared to what?

Pretty bad compared to UberCitizens xflukex and Freudian. And btw where can I sign up for the MP extension? Would like to kick their butts.

I have several buddies who wont purchase the game without MP. Can they sign up too? And we dont want the complicated internet "realtime" thingi (whatever this is I dont think anyone wants it) just a normal LAN MP extension. With tools like hamachi or kali you can even play against "strange" UberCitizens then.

I'd have to agree with the original post...the AI at its hardest level does show obvious flaws. I haven't lost a game yet...which is kind of strange because I lost at GCI all the time. One of the things that it does well, at least better than, say MOO2, is coordinate and focus attacks to take guarded colonies...although I've noticed they often don't do what any rookie player might, such as attack straggling military mining bases. It's not very good at blitzing either, or sneak attacking...most times when I declare war, I'll have a fleet of strong ships and transports ready to take enemy planets right off the bat...when the AI declare wars, it usually sits around for several turns before making any real attack.

There is one cheap algorithm I hope gets fixed, and it's the way the AI trades tech...apparently, they're coded to NEVER trade military techs if you have any kind of strong military. This creates such obvious eccentricities as not wanting to trade Beam Theory for several planets, thousands of BC, and the most advanced social and industrial techs?

If the AI is building embassies all over then you're not playing at a high difficulty level. That's one of the low-intelligence algorithms on planet set up.

Sorry Brad, I've seen it happen up to Suicidal.


My 2 cents on Freudian's points:

- Research: I wouldn't say the AI is horrible in it. I actually got the techs for Invention Matrix, Galactic Stock Exchange and Manufacturing Centers (not sure for Industrial Sector) from the AI several times. Research may be still improvable, but that would be further down on my list.

- Starbases: I agree, the AI is building too many small ones, it should rather focus on fewer bigger ones. It is doing a great job at upgrading and fortifying resource bases, but not with economical and cultural ones, which seem to be spammed everywhere over time. It should also upgrade military bases more reliable (I've seen both good ones and worthless ones). Please note that the AI should be much more averse to trading starbases, especially resource ones, away! (I wouldn't trade one away for anything, I think, they're simply irreplaceable.)

- Influence: Yes, I've made the experience that there's one point where my culture is unstoppable usually, this is linked to lack of proper planet and starbase upgrades from the AI, I think. Trading away influence starbases doesn't help it either...

- Planet management: The AI doesn't use special tiles good enough, sometimes it does, sometimes it just builds a wonder on a +100% farming tile (which would have been used much better in a different way).

- Ship construction: I don't have serious issues with it. I've seen larger hulls used by the AI, although they could use them more (or maybe small hulls simply are underpowered in late games?). But the AI should build ships with more speed!

I agree with much of what has been said here.
I posted here:
Link

about influence victories being too easy, but nobody seemed to agree with me then.

EDIT: I think Brad's second comment, however, that he is doing his best and will try to improve things must be commended. That is all anyone can ask for. Should be noted that all this is, or should be read as, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Hi!

Planet management: The AI can't build decent planets. Way too few factories, so they are constantly underdeveloped. They put embassies on tiles with bonuses for research/manufacturing. I have yet to accidentally culturally conquer an enemy planet where I felt they had made a good job making the planet useful.

Just finished my first large game with all-geniuos AI. I can confirm those findings. Lots of conquered planets had about half of tiles covered with either factories or embasies. The AIs on those planets were Altarians, Iconians and Drath. I had to mention I had 3 influence resources, but only one was developed to 44%, other two were just weapons and defenses. My cultural border never went over any AIs' planet - well, in late game, when I've been invading their biggest planets.

I'd like to point on a somewhat strange behaviour with AI building ships. It is OK they build some ships to defend, or to present them more strong, but some of them just exaggerate with that. Usually Drengin start that arm's race, and others follow, regardless of the seriousness of the threat (proximity of the Drengin). I'd like to suggest you to make AI check for how dangerous is in fact the threat, and then respond properly.

By properly I mean not to just crank out some ships. AI should check the designs in orbits of known opponents' planets (I see them, so I suppose they can see them too), and "ask" itself how it could build better ship, if it'd need one. Maybe not only one design, but more of them: a short term winner ("he has that, I'll go with this) and med term (he's going that way, so i'll go this one), and wents after proper tech(s). With med term goals it should also adjust social building queues for more factories or research.

IMO such kind of behaviour would reflect the way we humand solve such problems, and would allow AIs to avoid many dead-locks they seem to meet when "making decisions".

Just my 2c. Such changes in the AI code are likely out of scope for the current GC2 game. But maybe for GCx?
BR, Iztok

I believe you're over-reacting and only remember what you prefer to remember. I know for a fact that the AI is tough and it's quite challenging. This game's mechanics can get quite complex, compare it against any other game (including other turn-based-strategy games) and you'll see that it's a great AI. Sure, it's got some flaws, show me something that doesn't, but "The emperor's new clothes" is definitely not the case here. You beat the AI a few times and all of a sudden the AI sucks. Stop behaving like this already, this is annoying as hell.

There was a post about AI doing smart things. So far, the only thing I see it doing is noticing when I get ready to attack, or impose on it culturaly. Wierd thing is, sometimes it treats its starbases as planets. I have had them tell me they wont tolerate me putting my transport next to their planet, but I wasn't anywhere close. Just close to their cultural starbase.

In my current game on crippling, I had staged a one turn complete conquest of the Iconians. They had four planets. I had transports staged at every planet, as well as the military necessary to take out the orbital defences. They declared war on me the turn right before I was going to attack (good catch, little late though). Unfortunately, they didn't find in necessary to attack even one of my undefended transports.

So far, I haven't really had any difficulty beating the game. I played about four games on small maps, moving one step up in difficulty every time. My current game (fifth) I used a medium map because I thought maybe the computer wasn't able to build up a big enough empire to pose a chalange. On this game I used all races though. I still think it doesn't give them enough room to stabalise. Next time, I will try a medium map with only five opponents. Maybe that will help. Does the AI become tougher if it gets bigger? So far, I just kinda do whatever I want without much opposition.

Also, I think the AI needs to be more aggressive. If I play peacefull, they never attack me. Maybe I need to get up to a more difficult level. And also, because they treat each other the same as they treat me, they spend a lot of time just grinding each other down while I sit back and get staged to dominate.

Hopefully the AI will be fixed in 1.1.

Worst thing I've seen it do personally however, was dropping a Omega Defense System on top of a Precursor factory, disabling the use of the 700% production square.

Next time, I will try a medium map with only five opponents. Maybe that will help. Does the AI become tougher if it gets bigger? So far, I just kinda do whatever I want without much opposition. Also, I think the AI needs to be more aggressive. If I play peacefull, they never attack me. Maybe I need to get up to a more difficult level. And also, because they treat each other the same as they treat me, they spend a lot of time just grinding each other down while I sit back and get staged to dominate.

Just some comments on these lines:

I am normally a Gigantic map type person.... but I have found that those exact settings: Medium map, 5 AI tends to be an excellent game with solid wars, good AI defense, culture becomes important and the player ability to out-colonise the AI is significantly cut down. I also tend to use rare suns, rare planets, rare habitable in order to leave everyone with basically just their system. It takes a while to kick off (except the Drengin who build a large fleet) but when it does, it gets pleasantly messy.

On the AI not attacking you.... if you play at intelligent and start as either a Good or an Evil race... someone will probably declare on you by the end of the 1st year..... then they will stay at war until either a) They win They get into a lot of wars c) You buy them out .. or d) You build a bigger fleet than them. If you play at lower levels, the AI seems fairly random in who it will attack from what I have seen.

I think emperors new clothes is an excellent discription. The AI is excellent in one regrds only, and that is in its global relations to you as a player as expressed via the trade screen. In all other areas it is Meh- to poor.

It makes a terrible job of planet development, which is a undeniable fact. It spams un upgraded starbases which are effectively useless, again another fact. It never biulds ships above speed 2, fact.

There are lots of provable facts about the poor performance of the AI. Thinking it is tough is just a subjective opinion and comes no where close to the status of fact.

Also, I think the AI needs to be more aggressive. If I play peacefull, they never attack me. Maybe I need to get up to a more difficult level. And also, because they treat each other the same as they treat me, they spend a lot of time just grinding each other down while I sit back and get staged to dominate.

What the *(%#? I initially thought the AI is TOO aggressive, until I learned what makes it tick and learned how to make the AI leave me alone, eventually! Do you guys invent this stuff or what?! It's the same "MOO2 had the best AI ever, amazing 3D battles and even GODZILLA, and it was giving you money from the CD-ROM drive, too" syndrom

Stop slinging mud for the sake of slinging mud, what's up with you?

I agree with #19. The AI is only superficially good during one of those moments when they appear to be reacting intelligently to your moves. But those are generally one-off things. In general, the run-of-the-mill daily management issues and the overall general strategy are VERY badly handled by the AI, worse than in Civ4.

Now, of course, Stardock can come and say, "but GalCiv 2 is more complex!" but really, if you are touting your "Single Player Game Only" and your supposedly-super intelligent AI and all that marketing jazz, you better come up with something better than what you've done so far!

Fanboys who immediately start screaming blue murder when anyone ventures a criticism of the game may start flaming me now.

Fanboys who immediately start screaming blue murder when anyone ventures a criticism of the game may start flaming me now.

This fanboy thinks you're not significant enough...

I'll enjoy my fine game, you'll all bi*%h and moan and insult other people's hard work all day long. Enjoy.

I'm sorry I interfered, it's exactly what you trolls need - someone to aggravate. It just makes me a bit sad that you people really have no resepect for other people's work, and don't care about anything other than yourselves. Therefore, you should be ignored. I hope you'll be ignored by Stardock, but you'd surely be ignored by me from now on.

Right, lets get this straight are you guys seriously complaining that the AI on the highest level cant beat the best human players (many of who have years of experience playing strategy games a lot of it racked up against Galciv1). What the helll do you expect from a PC game, Skynet !

Don't worry, Brad will indeed improve the AI. He did it for Galciv1. Galciv1 took about six months after release to get to a really polished state. Galciv2 will be no different. Just be patient, and make a constructive thread on the topic. Don't tear Brad down, but work with the guy and give constructive thoughts on the AI. Best thing to do is to explain your strategies and then explain what the ai is doing in return. Play at intelligent ai level for the max non cheating ai.

It's alot more helpfull to give an After Action Report on a tough difficulty game. Play medium map, standard settings, 5 opponents.

The reports will help other gamers strategies and Brad can code the AI to compensate better if he knows what players are doing.

Frogboy, just fix those:

1. AI must build one strong starbase before he spams other starbases (he can spam starbases to claim resources, but not economy starbases and influence starbases)
2. Let the AI build technology capital on a world that have a lot of research centers
3. economy capital on a planet with atleast one farm
4. small planets randomly: 1 factory, 1 multimedia(optional) and the rest for research/influence, SPECIALISE! small planets are no good to have one factory, one starport and one embasy, one research and one multimedia...

p.s. I allways play at intelligent (two difficulties more than normal) for i like to know that he does not cheat (have more money) and he uses what ever he's got against me! I just started a new game, I am Yor and allready 3 CPs have declared war, how can I get out of this one, should be a good game, maby I even lose because i am evil and started with altarians and drath very close to me well, I go play now!