Frogboy Frogboy

Copy protection follow-up

▼

Copy protection follow-up

Sales, copy protection, and commentary

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/story.php?sid=6145864&page=0
from GalCiv2 Forums

The auto-track back system our IT guys developed certainly got a work out over the weekend with the copy protection news item. 

We received email from StarForce today apologizing for the incident. We appreciated them taking down the link.  It also gave us the opportunity to request the various meta-torrent sites to remove links to illegal torrents.

In every case, the torrent list site in question responded quickly to our request.  One might make the argument that a simple polite email to a meta-torrent search site is as effective as copy protection.

There is probably some irony that this whole thing occurred just before last week's EBGames.com top selling games list got posted on their site. They list Galactic Civilizations II as the top telling PC title and the #2 overall (all platforms).  And that was before this incident.

I don't want us to come out like we're on some sort of anti-copy protection crusade. We just don't think CD copy protection is an effective means to increase sales.

Here's the basic question that every publisher/gamer/developer could ask:  By requiring the CD to be in the drive to play a game, even assuming that protection unbreakable, do you increase your sales?

I ask that because many gamers who are on the fence on a given title won't purchase a game if it requires them to treat their CD like a dongle key. Why? Because let's face it, we lose our CDs eventually. Or we damage them. And so what happens is that people who are on the fence on a given title simply choose not to buy the game.

By not having any CD copy protection, people who are on the fence about our game can see that it's only $40 and once it's installed on their machines (plural) they don't have to fuss with the CD anymore. And we do have a type of copy protection -- free updates for customers. Tomorrow we'll be posting the v1.1 feature list based on your suggestions.

So which method gains the most sales? There's no definitive answer for that.  I think a given game's demographics have a lot to do with piracy rates in the first place. 

Meanwhile, Gamespot followed-up the issue. I spoke to them briefly today on the issue. You can see that in the link below.

I think the most effective way of increasing sales is probably to make games people want to buy. But I'm an engineer, not a marketer so what do I know? ;) !FROGCARE!

189,473 views 91 replies
Reply #51 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Link

What did I tell you? Penny Arcade has your backl!
Reply #52 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I had been on the fence about picking up Gal Civ II. I'm a big strategy game fan, but hadn't really fallen off the fence.

Then this whole Starforce thing blew up. I already believed the company to be insidiously evil. To post torrent links (which I wouldn't be at all surprised if they created in some kind of "Look at this software we weren't paid to protect... Be a shame if something happened to it" mafia style insurance deal) is despicable.

Having learnt of Stardock's stance on copy protection etc... And the fact that they treat the customer like a friend rather than a criminal, I went out on Monday and bought it. At this point, I don't care if it's great, or merely average. I am happy to support a software developer who actually "gets it".

As for Starforce... Their CEO is an insane man. I read an article from him that dimisses the "For every copy pirated, you'd be lucky if 1 in 6 actually bought the game anyway", claiming that for EVERY pirated copy, more than likely you've lost SIX sales because people are copying it for their friends. The guy is clearly delusional.

However, working on this theory, and being a big fan of "you reap what you sow" I'd say find out how many completed seeds were on the torrent, times it by six, then send Starforce an invoice for that number times $40.
Star Control: Origins
Reply #53 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
After reading this news, I think I'm going to buy this game tonight.

-Another guy who's sitting on the wall.
Reply #54 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Wow, there's just so many intelligent comments I just don't know where to start...

I think the no CD required, serial number for updates system works well, and the constant updates/revision reminds me more of MMO developments and real software implementation, where the release date is not the be all and end all of the game features.

I play rFactor, eve online and Gal Civ 2, among others, distributed online, and I think these games hold much more over what seems to be a mirror of the pop music industry idealogy of some of the gaming industry...

Anyhow, I'm not sure what point I'm making other than the fact I love the way this game is being developed, FOR the end customers, rather than the game being developed as a product... *ramble ramble*
Reply #55 from Stardock Forums Top
Penny Arcade has officially mentioned this!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/ and check out the comic http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060315.jpg
Reply #56 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Just wanted to say that I agree completely with the philosophy that there are far more appropriate and effective ways of protecting ones intellectual property.

Having said that, the only point I am confused on is this:


Why? Because let's face it, we lose our CDs eventually. Or we damage them


In nearly 30 years of computer games playing, including multiple computers (C64, Amiga, PC, Atari, XBox, N64, Gamecube) and multiple media (Tape, 5 1/4" Floppy, 3 1/2" floppy, CD, DVD) I have NEVER in all those years had a single instance of either losing it or damaging it.

Not one.

So I dont know if I am the exception that proves the rule or just very careful with my posessions....
Reply #57 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hey,

Just wanted to say... Your comments definatly changed my view on game companies. After I purchased splinter cell for my pc, and had the system litterly devastated (wouldn't boot untill a format & re-install) and I found out that it was DIRECTLY related to malware disguised as copy protection (forced an install of 32 bit hacked up cdrom drivers on my 64 bit computer, with XP pro 64 bit) I completly stopped buying games. Sucks because I was getting really excited over some new tech (Fear & HL2 were the games I had bought b4 splinter cell)

I swore I would NOT buy any games anymore from any company that use ANY form of copy protection (other than cd keys) with that being said.... After reading your post I am now gonna buy your game off the shelf the next time I got a few bux to drop, and I think I will buy it simply because of the respect I gained for your company.
Reply #58 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
finally a software company headed by people with a brain. You guys must take over the software industry!
Reply #59 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
From Gamespot, one company has now decided not use starforce in one of their upcoming games. Looks like this publicity is starting to now hurt Starforce.

Publishers weigh in on Starforce
Aspyr apologizes for inconveniences related to program while Galactic Civilizations II's Aussie publisher backs up decision to go without copy protection.
Earlier this week, Starforce Technologies, the makers of Starforce copy-protection software, apologized to the developers of Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords for one of its forum moderators linking users to a site where they could pirate the game. The story still wasn't over with, as a pair of publishers have since weighed in on the matter.

Auran, the Australian publishing partner of Dread Lords developer Stardock Systems, contacted GameSpot with the following statement:

"With the full support of the developers, Auran is publishing this game with NO COPY PROTECTION [emphasis theirs], instead relying on a quality product that provides registered users with frequent updates, additional features and outstanding support to create a best-seller."

That was followed by news that Aspyr Media was going to pass on Starforce for its upcoming release of Spellforce 2, even though it had used the program in the demo version of the game.

"Aspyr Media is responsible for publishing the North American release of Spellforce 2," an Aspyr representative said. "We wanted everyone to know that Starforce will *not* [again, emphasis theirs] be included in the retail release of this game. Starforce is being used in the demo in cooperation with the European publishers of the title, JoWood Productions. This is to help prevent reverse engineering that could lead to our product being put up on illegal software networks. We apologize for any inconveniences Starforce may have caused and would again like to reassure everyone that we have chosen alternative copy protection software for our final release product."

Currently the only copy protection in Dread Lords is a serial number that must be entered in order to download content updates from Stardock. The company expects the first such update to release at the end of the month.

By Brendan Sinclair -- GameSpot
Reply #60 from GalCiv2 Forums Top



Funny, I haven't had a single CTD that could be even indirectly attributable to Stardock on either my laptop nor my desktop. I will, for the sake of full disclosure, say that my laptop's temperature did begin to approach that of a solar event a time or two; but Brad and his Mad Minnasotan Men (and women) cleared that problem up pdq.

BTW, with all the harping about it; they might actually be serious about that driver thang, ya know...
Reply #61 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Amongst all the love being poured on Stardock here, I have a small voice of dissent. The game does have copy protection, it's just hidden. It's hidden in the product activation part of the patch process. What's to stop a company releasing a game that has a deliberate bug in it that requires an online patch to play? Basically, before you can play the game, you thus have to activate it. I am absolutely against this and wouldn't have bought the game if I'd known this was the case (same reason I didn't buy Earth 2160). Game companies come and go. When Stardock goes and you want to play the game, patched, what do you do?

This pretty much puts Stardock on the same footing as Steam.

I wouldn't mind if new content was protected this way, but game fix bugs should not be restricted like this.
Reply #62 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Basically, before you can play the game, you thus have to activate it.

not quite: the activation isn't required when you install the game form the CD
When you install update that may be another thing
Reply #63 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This pretty much puts Stardock on the same footing as Steam.



Except I don't need a broadband connection everytime I want to play the game..
Reply #64 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

So which method gains the most sales? There's no definitive answer for that. I think a given game's demographics have a lot to do with piracy rates in the first place.


- Accidentally break your copy protected CD and your whole investment is gone, and then if you wanna play you either have to shell out those bucks again ... or get a version some friendly hacker provided in the first place.

- Try to backup your legally acquired game and you'll find that the only one you can protect your investment is to rely on the friendlyness of hackers and stuff like Game *** World

- If a company treats you, the almighty customer, as an enemy from day one, what does that say about your present and future relationship

- How will communication between a "criminalized" buyer and a punitive Game Developer house play out over time? I bet it'll be a lot more harsh.

- Doesn't the annoying parental attitude of the copy-protection people simply serve as bait for a population of adolescents who are very proficient in rebellion. Isn't copy protection just a challenge that one is morally compelled to overcome?

Stardock may not even realize it, but what they're following is the dignified philosophy of Harm Reduction which is opposed to the philosophy of Prohibitionism. It's like Holland vs. the USA on Marijuana policy. Prohibitionism tries to ban, criminalize and punish its way out of all their problems, while Harm Reduction tries to live with the fact that "shit happens" - only they try to minimize the harm done from it, and in the procees tries to treat people like living human beings. I think it's great that some software houses realize that there are other means of marketing than punishment, control and putting obstacles in their customers' way.
Reply #65 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I bought this game yesterday.

Why?

1. It got great reviews.
2. It sounds like my kind of game.

Typically, when I buy a game, I buy it on e-bay.

When I came here and realized:
1. The disk isn't copy protected, and
2. The developers seem to treat the consumers like human beings

I then felt very pleased to go out and buy it retail.

There a gazillion people and they all buy their software for different reasons and under different standards.
In my case, this company's approach got them an additional retail sale they would not have had otherwise.
Reply #66 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Lol Penny Arcade even did a comic on it: http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060315.jpg
Reply #67 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I admit! I do own a illegal copy of Galciv2 with the illegal patch! And I am glad I downloaded this game!

Why? Because I never buy a game without testing. In my opinion most of the games are not worth €40+. But the few games I download and do like, I buy. (But I wont pay for games with copy protection that messes up my pc, no matter how how good the game may be.)

So Galciv2 is indeed one of the few games I like and it's without copy protection. So why am I still playing a illegal version? That's because the game is here (Netherlands) hard to come by. I am still playing my illegal version of the game till my genuine version is delivered by mail. (Bought I a couple of days ago).

BUT IF IT HAVEN'T DOWNLOADED THE ILLEGAL VERSION, I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN ABOUT THIS GAME AND I WOULD HAVE NEVER BOUGHT IT. SO PIRACY HAS INDEED HIS BENEFITS!
Reply #68 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really appreciate how your making the game easy to install and play without the hassle and I've made my decision to support you and buy it!
Reply #69 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Personally, I think Starforce needs to give Stardock a little compensation. Or more than a little. How about a lot. I also will refuse to buy any game copyprotected by Starforce software.
edit:
Especially since StarForce (as a company) appears to not only be careless, but also (as software) damages your PC and makes it open to viruses.
Reply #70 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here's a proposition to game developers, StarForce, and other such copy protection companies: if copy protection always increases sales then it wouldn't make a difference if the game's cover proudly displayed a CD protection badge. The gamer would have no choice but to buy the game because he or she couldn't pirate it, right? Try it and see what happens. Because of Stardock's stance on this issue, I'm going to buy the game today. If I like it, I might just buy a few more as presents for friends. Thanks for looking out for your fans, Stardock!
Reply #71 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I am glad that everything was taken off of the Torrent sites. To be honest I have to agree that the CD Protection is annoying. If I bought the software why can't I install it on all of my computers. Granted I have 3 at the moment and will soon be adding two more but I bought the game. I also hate having the CD in the drive to play it. I thank you for not having that requirement. I also say thank you because I am buying a new laptop just so that I can play this on my couch!!
Reply #72 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm someone who games on airplanes from time to time and to me, not needing the CD in the drive is imperative since the second battery in my Dell laptop shares its slot with the CD drive. Given that windows games tend to force the CPU to max, regardless of what else it going on, that means that a game can run down the battery in 1-1 1/2 hours. On longer flights, that makes the second battery a necessity.

Also, I was a GC fan from its original OS/2 days (I think I've still got my original Stock Certificate, even!). So when I heard that GC2 was available, I was over at my local evil electronic big-box store that same day to get my copy.

The only person who's not happy GC2 is out is my wife!
Reply #73 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I just read both posts about your views on copy protection and I have to say that I truly admire you for not allowing copy protection schemes to ruin the lives of those few players that have problems. I personally hate copy protection, as it would require me to be constantly switching CDs when I want to play different games. I'm actually going to go and buy your game GalCiv II just because I want to support a company (Stardock) that has the correct views on copy protection. I hope my purchase will help you guys to create even more great games.
Reply #74 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i just gotta add this comment. serial numbers are fine by me, but holy crap make your mind up about zeros and "O"s allready.

all the 'O's with the slash through them in the serial code for GC1 were "O"s while the ones for GC 2 are zeros. entering a string of 20+ letters/numbers over and over till you figure out that the "O" should be a zero is a major pita.

Reply #75 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your biggest copy protection is really the updates you do. I can honestly say I was planning to buy a pirated version of the game because they're very easy and VERy cheap to obtain. But then I realised I wouldn't get the numerous updates that I've heard GalCiv I had. And I've really heard great stuff about that. Also, the fact that I could download the game instead of waiting for it to be shipped was awesome. Came back from work, decided to buy the game and couple of hours later I was playing it. Now THAT'S service.