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Copy protection follow-up

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Copy protection follow-up

Sales, copy protection, and commentary

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/story.php?sid=6145864&page=0
from GalCiv2 Forums

The auto-track back system our IT guys developed certainly got a work out over the weekend with the copy protection news item. 

We received email from StarForce today apologizing for the incident. We appreciated them taking down the link.  It also gave us the opportunity to request the various meta-torrent sites to remove links to illegal torrents.

In every case, the torrent list site in question responded quickly to our request.  One might make the argument that a simple polite email to a meta-torrent search site is as effective as copy protection.

There is probably some irony that this whole thing occurred just before last week's EBGames.com top selling games list got posted on their site. They list Galactic Civilizations II as the top telling PC title and the #2 overall (all platforms).  And that was before this incident.

I don't want us to come out like we're on some sort of anti-copy protection crusade. We just don't think CD copy protection is an effective means to increase sales.

Here's the basic question that every publisher/gamer/developer could ask:  By requiring the CD to be in the drive to play a game, even assuming that protection unbreakable, do you increase your sales?

I ask that because many gamers who are on the fence on a given title won't purchase a game if it requires them to treat their CD like a dongle key. Why? Because let's face it, we lose our CDs eventually. Or we damage them. And so what happens is that people who are on the fence on a given title simply choose not to buy the game.

By not having any CD copy protection, people who are on the fence about our game can see that it's only $40 and once it's installed on their machines (plural) they don't have to fuss with the CD anymore. And we do have a type of copy protection -- free updates for customers. Tomorrow we'll be posting the v1.1 feature list based on your suggestions.

So which method gains the most sales? There's no definitive answer for that.  I think a given game's demographics have a lot to do with piracy rates in the first place. 

Meanwhile, Gamespot followed-up the issue. I spoke to them briefly today on the issue. You can see that in the link below.

I think the most effective way of increasing sales is probably to make games people want to buy. But I'm an engineer, not a marketer so what do I know? ;) !FROGCARE!

189,498 views 91 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I purchased GCII after succumbing to the ever-powerful Octopus Overlords Forum Effect (OOFE). After reading rave review after rave review, I plunked down my $50 (I got the d/l and boxed version) and was not disappointed.

The only game that will likely displace GCII in sheer numbers of forum threads on OO will be Oblivion. But GCII won't go quietly...that's a given.

Stardock has earned a dedicated customer in me, not only in the way they deal with their customers, but in the way they gracefully handled the recent Starforce debacle. Nice job, guys.
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Is it such an onerous task to get up, go to your computer and swap out a disc? I mean really, we're not talking about running a marathon here. And if you can't find the disc... what do you do when you can't find that steak knife? Or some other physical object you lost.


In general it's just a pain. But the biggest reason is laptop users. A lot of travelers won't even take a CD drive with them. And many now are just external. So if you require a CD to play a game you've got a guy/gal on a plane with barely any space as it is trying to hook up an external CD drive and all that just to play a game? Basically you won't play the game!

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now if you can just get Slashdotted then you have all your bases covered


Already have been. http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/03/11/2049230.shtml

Its just phenominal how much excellent press they've gotten because of the starforce fiasco. If you go to the 'referrals' on the original news item, you'll see tens of thousands of hits from (as of now) 460 different sites linking to that particular posting. The fact that Stardock was pitted against starforce (one of the most universally hated companies in the gaming industry) spells nothing but good news for GalCiv II and future Stardock products.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Not to rain on your parade. The reason GalCiv2 is selling isn't exactly because it has no copy protection, it has more to do witht he fact that it's the only firkin good game out for PC right now. I usually see 2 titles for PC a year that are worth buying!
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While I knew that GalCiv II was a wanted game I wouldn't think that it would become the #1 sold game in any store!

And I didn't think that you could take down torrents that easily :/ Oh well, guess I thought that it was as hard as in Sweden ^^
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I believe good games like Galciv II doesn't need copy protection since most PC Gamers want to support great games. While I like consoles I'm still a hardcore PC Gamer who wants games like GalCiv2 to be successful. I rent most consoles games since i done with them in a few days. Galciv2 is one i be playing for a long time to come especially with updates.
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The game industry is disappointing, EA's slew of sequals (Madden as mentioned and more), ID's sequals (Quake 4), and all the games I had looked forward to and found to not be good... EaW, AoE III...

GC2 has been the only game worth buying, to me, since UT2k4 was released. Frankly, the rest of the industry needs to wake up!

I've been spreading the news to lots of folks about GC2, why? Because I like it. And it was the first challenge in a long time. And the comparitive lack of protection is only a bonus. I don't freak out over graphics gems any more, and I don't go with the marketing blitz anymore - they just don't live up to my hopes any more. I actually tried GC1 a week before GC2 was announced to the public, it was already there for users, and I noticed the "Coming Soon" area about the sequal. Needless to say, I was intrigued; even though I wasn't impressed with GC1. I came back a few weeks later and started reading about the game, I even remember the early posts about using DesktopX for skinning everything. I was really hesitant to preorder, since I didn't want to potentially be disappointed too soon, so I waited. Now, having the final product, I can safely say: When GC3 comes out, I'll be among the first to preorder.

And I don't throw that around lightly. GC2 was my first preorder, the day before release, and I've not regretted it.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Grüße aus Deutschland,

ich muß sagen ich bin schon recht heiß auf die deutsche version von Galciv II und war nicht nur einmal in der Versuchung mir die englische Version zuzulegen......

hands up ich kann euch nur zu diesem mutigen Schritt gratulieren (obwohl Teil eins auch schon kein Kopierschutz hatte) und ich hoffe das dies Mode macht....kein Kopierschutz zu verwenden.... erstens (ich weiß ist schon recht plattgetretten) hällt das den Kern der Raupkopierer nicht ab weiter raubzukopieren und zweitens werden potenziele Kunden abgeschreckt... gerade dann wenn man bei vorhergehenden Titeln mehr Probleme hat als Spass.
Oder in Ausnahmefällen sogar die Hartware draufgeht (S.......). Also macht weiter so ich liebe euch
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top


I real feel the need to comment on this issue as recently copy protection has become a real hatred of mine.


1) I feel it is my right as the owner of these games to make backup copies so my originals don’t get damaged and so I can move between my various PCs. This is deliberately made highly difficult by developers. I, the customer suffer at the expense of exaggerated industry piracy fears. Thank you Star dock for your faith in us

2) Star Wars:EaW was not playable for thousands of people who legitimately bought the game. This was because of idiotic copy protection encoding. Personally I couldn’t play the game until an un-official ‘update’ was released, simply because I had CD-Emulation software installed; it wasn’t even in use. What business is it what other applications I have on my PC. I returned SW:EaW to the shop as did hundreds more fans. Lucusarts as a result lost many faithful Star Wars franchise consumers. Thank you Stardock for not snooping my system and placing you faith in consumer honesty.


3) Battle for Middle Earth 2 is a highly rushed game and has numerous issues. This is a major reason why people are turning to illegal versions. Software developers have lost the faith of consumers. Why spend $50 on a game which only half works. (I own a legit copy, though it may go back to the store).


There is no cure for piracy and it will exist permanently. Harsh anti-piracy features damage companies consumer base and profits. It is my belief that developers / distributors such as Stardock are the way forward for software development. By placing faith in the honesty of most consumers they will rise above the ranks of the blockbuster developers such as EA.

Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I am a supporter of Stardocks stance on Copy Protection, especially as it fits in with how I manage my PC gaming.

After going through - read destroying while playing - multiple copies of the Unreal Tournament Play CD; I've adopted the policy of imaging and Copy Cracking EVERY game that needs a CD in the drive to play. I can put the original media away safely and run with an image, which is also much faster when it comes to data transfers in-game.

So it begs the question - whats the point of Copy Protection if even ligitimate plays circumvent it to enhance the gaming experience.
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
While I agree with most of what is said on this board, and Iove GC, GCII, Stardock's support culture, and the lack of copy protection - there are a couple of points to copy protection that haven't really been referred to in this thread.

1) Stardock regularly updates and supports their games. Don't get me wrong - I love this and its one of the reasons why I don't mind buying a Stardock game even if a review says it has some things to smooth out yet - I know Stardock will smooth out the issues or find some way to address them. However, regular updates are de facto copy protection in the sense that if you don't have the original serial number, you can't get the updated / fixed version.

This approach works well for Stardock and the strategy genre of games, but it might not work so well for some others. (How often to first person shooters get major updates?)

2) You have to look at the issue as a multi-period game theory problem. Yes, in any one instance, the people that copy a game illegally probably aren't going to pay anyway, and the true customers are going to pay - particularly if this means that they are going to get access to upgrades, updates, etc. However, if the industry went without copy protection for a significant amount of time, then some of those law-abiding folk might get rather miffed at teh fact that they keep paying, and a significant portion of the world seems to be able to get the game/software for free without having to pay for it, and seemingly without any consequences.

At that point, you will get some "leakage" as otherwise law abiding customers feel they are getting the raw end of the deal and start illegally copying, too. It is delaying or inhibiting this "leakage" that most copy protection exists for. (I know I ended that sentence with a preposition, please don't flame me - I'll give myself 40 lashes later tonight...)

In Stardock's case, they are relying on the first point above to act as the copy-deterrent for the law abiding customer. ("See, you are getting something for your money that the mean crooks don't get!") However, games like Doom, et al. may still need copy protection, as they otherwise provide little benefit to the law abiding purchaser that would deter them from eventually deciding that "everyone else is getting it for free, why shouldn't I?"
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As a guy who's played many games and styles, I've been 'looking into' this thing called "GalCiv2". Seemed like a good game by some of the ratings that were being posted. The thing that's gotten me really excited about this game is the 'open-architect', open-staff (to QnAs) and positive influence that you are all trying to portray.

I agree with you on the "non-CD". I have a 6 year old soon who loves his NHL06 game and when he needs to take out MY game to start his, things can either get 'sticky', scratched or broken. Not something I like to think about!

So, as I wait for MORE copies to actually get into stores so that I can buy the game, I really look forward to such an excellent experience with GalCiv2 - not only in the game, but here as well.

Cheers from Canada, eh!
Reply #39 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Stardock rules, no doubt about it.

I absolutely despise having to put a CD in to play a game. I also despise invasive copy protection. I pay for my games and I don't like being treated like a criminal. Besides, nobody has ever stopped hackers and pirates and they never will. Someone will always find a way to crack copy protection.

There is no point in punishing paying customers. The Stardock method of instead rewarding paying customers is vastly superior.

Pretty much every PC game you buy these days needs a patch on release day or asap - it's become the norm. So, devs wouldn't even have to go out of their way to use the Stardock approach.
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
stardock, you're making the updates so alluring. i bet even pirates would buy the game just to have the updates (which look awesome).
Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was about to make a comparison between the games industry and Hollywood movies of recent years, but it's pretty apparent.

When the mainstream PC game market releases a title that's more fun for a teenager to play than it is to try to crack the protection built into it, their problems as an industry will be mostly solved.

Until then, Stardock, the ball's in your court. You've got quality, top-notch support, and lack of distracting protection on your side. They don't. Run with it.
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Stardock people,

Your game was not really on my radar until this incident, and I purchased your game over the weekend in part because it wasn't going to treat me like a criminal. After playing all day Sunday, I'm very happy I picked it up.

All too often, publishers are guilty of allowing pirates to provide better customer service than they do to their actual paying customers.

After reading your comments today (which are along the same lines as my own thinking), I think it's safe to say you've won yourself a complete fanboy.

Good luck on your future products, I'll be keeping my eyes open.

Thanks!
Reply #43 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Is it such an onerous task to get up, go to your computer and swap out a disc? I mean really, we're not talking about running a marathon here. And if you can't find the disc... what do you do when you can't find that steak knife? Or some other physical object you lost.


What about when you have a game that requires more than one disc? I played a game called Cydonia that had 6 discs, evrytime I opened a door or reached a placed had to swap disks, where is number 2 or number 5 or number 3, totally idiotic.
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Grüße aus Deutschland,

ich muß sagen ich bin schon recht heiß auf die deutsche version von Galciv II und war nicht nur einmal in der Versuchung mir die englische Version zuzulegen......

hands up ich kann euch nur zu diesem mutigen Schritt gratulieren (obwohl Teil eins auch schon kein Kopierschutz hatte) und ich hoffe das dies Mode macht....kein Kopierschutz zu verwenden.... erstens (ich weiß ist schon recht plattgetretten) hällt das den Kern der Raupkopierer nicht ab weiter raubzukopieren und zweitens werden potenziele Kunden abgeschreckt... gerade dann wenn man bei vorhergehenden Titeln mehr Probleme hat als Spass.
Oder in Ausnahmefällen sogar die Hartware draufgeht (S.......). Also macht weiter so ich liebe euch



Translation

Stardock rules!!!!
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well done Stardock and I agree with everything you say regarding copy protection. Usually when I buy a PC game i'll play it for a little while and then I get turned off by having to find my cd.

IMO Starforce are a bunch of thugs. Today I went out and showed my support for Stardock by going to Wally World and buying a copy. And what's even better is that it was the limited edition.
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now for another story. Have Diablo II and expansion but...I lost? the expansion disk. I know I had it installed on my other machine so it SHOULD be at that house. Well i have the case (and thankfully the key) but no cd. Bought a used DII don't feel like getting the exp again...well getting a copy is a pain wish I had made one myself. OR that I had an account where I could download the game I bought
Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
So I heard about GalCiv 2 on Civfanatic forum, as Civ 4 had been kind of dissapointing. I downloaded GalCiv2 from a torrent site to check it out, to see if I would like it. I did, very much, so I went and bought it online, so I could get the updates, and own it legally.
I don't know if that's copy protection, or more of the old shareware, try before you buy, attitude. Either way I really like the fact I could buy online, and that the game seemed designed to let people try it before deciding to purchase a Serial Code.
I just wish buying online had been cheaper, considering the stuff like printed manuals and boxes that you don't get.
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I saw this story on Digg, and liked your position on my rights vs. yours. I stopped by the local store tonight and bought a copy. The good news for me is that I love this kind of game and I'm looking forward to giving it a try, even though I hadn't heard about it before the copy protection issue came up. The good news for you is that I would have bought it even if I didn't really like the genere, since I appreciate what you are trying to do to counter the mindset of most game publishers. I'm at a place where I can vote with my wallet and that's what I'm doing, you guys got $40 bucks that might have gone to UbiSoft (I really like Splinter Cell, sorry). So, have a beer on me, and I'm going to go kick the snot out of some aliens. Keep up the good work.
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Haha, I'm at the CeBit right now and StarForce is here, to. Went there to see the guys with my own eyes. They didn't look to happy, so I thought starting to discuss with them about the stupid stuff they did and how their tech sucks might be redundant. So I just grinned at them and went on. But now I can claim that I looked into the eyes of evil.