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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

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Galactic Civilizations II, Copy Protection, and Piracy

Setting the record straight

from GalCiv2 Forums

Digg is reporting that a website is implying that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated.  Absolutely not! Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.

This got started because sales reports on Galactic Civilizations II have been much higher than anticipated. We've now outsold the first Galactic Civilizations in North America in the first 10 days. Last week we were apparently the #1 PC game at Walmart. 

Naturally, some peple have taken the conclusion that because we don't have copy protection on our game, that we invite piracy. That is not the case, we simply think there are other ways to stop piracy than CD checks, strict DRM, etc.

What we do is provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.

Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once.

How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?

Our company also makes utility software. We've been around a long time -- 14 years now. Our software gets pirated. We don't like it but piracy is a fact of life. And not every pirated copy means a lost sale.

The question isn't about eliminating piracy, it's about increasing sales. It's about trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it. 

Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates.

If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy.

We realize that some people or companies might feel threatened at any evidence that implies that draconian DRM schemes or CD copy protection may not make that big of a difference in sales. 

For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.

All software is pirated, there's no way around it. We've been making software for over 10 years.  We don't like our software being pirated.  Like I said, every lost sales has an impact on us.  But there are other ways to reduce it than through draconian copy protection systems.

Incidentally, the site that Starforce's forum admin linked to "prove" how much our software was being pirated we visited, followed the instructions on the site to get our game removed and the links were removed within a couple of hours.  We'll continue to follow-up with them.

Update: Starforce has removed the URL to the illegal files.

Update: View follow-up.

523,833 views 309 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
X2 had Starforce removed in a later patch, as said in the link i provided to the boycott starforce site. This topic (Original thread topic) is all the rage right now. Everyone is backing up Stardock, even on the starforce forums!
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
wooh, checked the list and i have none of those. was interested in might and magic 5 but that has come off my list. thanks for the links
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Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Starforce being immoral? Wow, now there's a first.

Along with a few other select a**hole companies, they're on my list of "if someone asks me about products corrupted by them I will ALWAYS insist strongly to NOT give them any money at all. I'd rather see people pirate from them than give them so much as a penny.

As consumers the only power we have is en masse with our wallets. Help clean up the industry by doing your best to put the amoral crooks out of business. Help make things even again with trust both ways, not the most powerful side treating the consumers like criminals, installing malware on their equipment, and generally being evil.

I'm happy to support the likes of Stardock.


The irony? Starfarce 'protected' games are still available through the same illegal sources as the GalCiv torrents. The difference? I condone one but not the other.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
looks like I have to take might and magic 5 off my list too, I didn't buy silent hunter 3 and X3 either just because
of that dreaded starforce


It's sad my first post on this forum has to be negative.

But GalCiv 2 makes up for all games with starforce on them, it's really that Good

Unitedcat , Sweden
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Staggering.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I will confess to having cracked a few games in my day. Not because I stole them (honestly), but because I hate having to pop CDs in and out. I almost always download whatever No-CD crack there is for a game I buy just on principle.

I've stopped buying games with Starforce on them. I'm going to be buying the new Splinter Cell for xbox 360 rather than PC, despite my preference of gaming on a PC, because they put Starfoce on Chaos Theory before I knew that was something I wanted to avoid. I would not buy the game entirely as punishment to Ubisoft for using it in the first place...but come on it's Splinter Cell!

Other games that aren't so awesome, or where I don't have a history with the franchise are SOL. I'm not rewarding this crap anymore. Not when there are companies out there like Stardock who will entertain me without cataloguing the contents of my harddrive while I play.

Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
most of the cracked games contain a text file in which you can read something like "if you like the game, then buy it". From this point of view i think that those man have more respect for the work of the developers than the idiots from Starforce. By posting that link they proved they give a sh*t about your work.


PS: if i were you i would take any (judiciary) action against them
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm the webmaster of the boycott starforce webpage: Link and the people in our forum are very pleased by your attitude towards copy protection.

Thanks for taking care of your legit customers !
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I didn't like GalCIv1, but I bought GalCiv2 because of your DRM model (or lack thereof). It was a pleasant side effect that GalCiv2 is a lot of fun, but mostly I like to encourage developers to not use DRM. You guys did it right, and from your sales numbers, you know it.

As for starforce: never bought a starforce game, never will. I never needed a reason before, but now I've got one!
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
most of the cracked games contain a text file in which you can read something like "if you like the game, then buy it". From this point of view i think that those man have more respect for the work of the developers than the idiots from Starforce. By posting that link they proved they give a sh*t about your work.


PS: if i were you i would take any (judiciary) action against them
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
most of the cracked games contain a text file in which you can read something like "if you like the game, then buy it". From this point of view i think that those man have more respect for the work of the developers than the idiots from Starforce. By posting that link they proved they give a sh*t about your work.


PS: if i were you i would take any (judiciary) action against them
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Heh, check out this other thread on Starforces Official forums where SF officially criticizes Bethesda for bowing to "paranoia", and not using Starforce on Oblivion:

Link

Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
PS: if i were you i would take any (judiciary) action against them


Does anyone know any laws that forbid this? I dont know anything about american copyright laws..But if what I am vaguely stabbing at is true, Starforce is in russia..

Really, That forum post stank of arrogance..

--

What does "Draconian copy protection" mean?

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I am glad to see that Galciv 2 is doing well!
Reply #39 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here's my take on the sales effect of game cracking: people who crack your game did so because they never had any intention of buying it. You didn't lose a sale. That doesn't make it right, obviously, but that's just how it is. You were never going to make that sale. On the other hand it's obvious by reading this thread that having no DRM at all is a selling point for a game, or at least it was for this one.

Maybe when GalCiv2 sells its millionth copy (I've no doubt that it will sell that many) and gets some recognition for it the big developers will take note.
Reply #40 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Stardock is making history with the release of Galciv2 in more ways than one. It is an instant classic in a genre littered with failures. It is shaping up to be an outstanding commercial success. And Stardocks business model of 'treat your customers decently' is a statement that desperately needed to be made to offset the 'our customers suck!' attitude that other publishers seem to have these days. I'll tell you what - I've never been much for windows 'skinning' and that kinda thing, but I'm going to see what other software Stardock sells. If I see something even half interesting, I'm buying it.

-MB

Reply #41 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Heh, check out this other thread on Starforces Official forums where SF officially criticizes Bethesda for bowing to "paranoia", and not using Starforce on Oblivion:


Wow, Thats a real hoot*!

*laugh

Not only are they going "Oh if you dont use our software you are doomed!" (Imagine I said that like how Brad did the "Domed" thing on poweruser.tv), But they post like 8 year olds!

Also, It seems kind of..Noobish that a company with huge tentacles in the game industry are using invision boards, It just dosent make a great first impression...
Reply #42 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you thank you for not using copy protection Brad. It's so refreshing not having to worry about the inevitable build up of scrapes and scratches on a well used disk rendering the game unuseable. Heck, I downloaded straight from Stardock, the box arrived last week, but I've not even removed the seal from the cd case.

Unfortunately, I bought X3 without realising that it used Starforce (yeah, I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to DRMs).

I've read that even if I now uninstall the game, Starforce will remain on my system..... wtf?!

I have serious issues with the fact that Starforce wasn't even hinted at on the box, nor do I remember being implicitely asked if I wanted to install third party software.... hell I thought it would be a requirement to have reasonable warning that your program was gonna install a completely different, INVASIVE program.

The kicker is, I only played X3 for a week because even though I have the required system specs the framerate drops to near uselessness in busier systems.

So how exactly do I get rid of this Starforce garbage?
Reply #44 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
most of the cracked games contain a text file in which you can read something like "if you like the game, then buy it". From this point of view i think that those man have more respect for the work of the developers than the idiots from Starforce. By posting that link they proved they give a sh*t about your work.


PS: if i were you i would take any (judiciary) action against them
Reply #45 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why do I pirate games? Simple. because i have a 9 month old daughter, school, an apartment, a rundown car... and 44 cents in the bank. I simply can't afford to do anything i *want*, hell, i can hardly afford to do things i *need*. I'm a geek, hacker, and i pirate my software. I need to pirate my software. I simple can not afford it otherwise. Why should i be excluded because of the poor system this country has set in place? I apologize for pirating your software (altho, i haven't yet.) I enjoy games. i enjoy *good* games. i feel bad about not being able to afford it, but people... have some humility. if you CAN afford it, buy it. buy it, enjoy it, and let the people who created it know that you enjoy it - by paying for it. If you're like me, and absolutely positively can not afford the game, i support your decision to pirate. That's my story, and i'm stickin to it.
Reply #46 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I didn't read through all the comments, but If it hasn't been said already, those vodka swilling cossacks over at Starforce are a bunch of A holes. They posted that because your game is making money and you didn't hire them to @uck up ppls. computers to install the game.
I thought most dvd-rom sales were lost to counterfeit duplication in SouthEast Asia, namely China anyway.
Reply #47 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I reported the starforce posting to the ESA. heres the link for you to do the same.
http://www.theesa.com/piracy/index.php
swine...
Reply #48 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
quote: " Providing that link to an example of where individuals could download Galactic Civilizations II looked like a direct attempt to persuade game devlopers (and in particular stardock, piggy backing off GC2's recent unexpected commercial success story) to use and promote starforce copy protection software. This kind of underhanded tactic at promoting the sales of a commercial product should not be stood for.

The other obvious reason is that stardocks ideology of dealing with the problem of software piracy direclty contradicts the copy protection arguement. And if they can sway other firms away from stardocks enlightened ideas, more software development companies are likely to use the starforce software. " : end quote

I too was going to say something like this. Starforce for the past year has been very bitter and vindictive to those that bad mouth it. They have threatened to sue people who have written negative articles on them (which is absurd). They hate the fact that some developers refuse to use their drm and are bitter about it. They say it's a conspiracy by pirates against them because their DRM is just OOOH sooo good (not). Starforce is the first DRM scheme to actually cause a decline in sales due to it's bad rap. A bad rap that the makers of starforce are desperately trying to combat anyway they can.

Their employees post around the net on the topic of Starforce where ever it shows up and tend to be arrogant, rude, and flippent. They will even say things like " well I guess since your complaining about starforce, you must be a pirate". I kid you not, they will LITERALLY say this to you. They don't like lip from anyone about their drm and will attempt to defame them.

They are terrified that clients like UBI Soft might stop licensing their software and all the small developers (most of their clients are smaller developers) that license their software will stop using it too. Stardocks methods ARE a THREAT to them. They did in fact post that torrent to
A: show current clients how much they need them.
B: show that with out starforce they will not make any money
C:Show to others who might get ideas about not using starforce what is in store for them.
D: Try to show Stardock how ooh soooo wrooong they are for not using drm, particulary their drm.

It's important to note that the creators of this software are former Communist Soviet Union types. The eastern block culture has a very different attitude about doing business and dealing with customers then the U.S. does. It's definately a "we know whats best for you" attitude.

I have a rule in my household that NO software or cd is allowed to be purchased or installed untill the type of drm it has is identified. If there is a game out that you would like to get, you should get on the web and go to one of the several sites out there that informs you what copy protection is on the program.

By the way that list of games that have starforce is woefully incomplete.
Reply #49 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have to admit I bought this game for full price (last game I bought for full price was Vampire Bloodlines when it came out ) purely for the fact that it has no copy-protection. So that I could support a company that has the guts to do something like this and therefore deserve all the support I can give.
Reply #50 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really love the no DRM part of it. It is in fact the reason I bought it because now I don't have to go around looking for the lost disks, ruining my CD Rom reader by keeping a stuipd disk in there that IS NEVER USED. It is even the reason that I felt very benevolent and forgiving towards the game for the bugs that I kept running into (that turned out to be my drivers ). Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you folks and Stardock not to give into the pressure and continue treating the customers like they are human beings who deserve at the very least not to be treated like criminals.