I have to say that Stardock's approach to the issue of piracy is a refreshing take on an old problem. Frequent updates, community participation, and additional content are excellent incentives for legally purchasing software. Despite being a small company, it's clear that Stardock has some highly intelligent people at the helm, and no doubt, they have studied the economics behind piracy. The pricing of software, like every other product, is subject to the laws of supply and demand. I think this was briefly hinted at in the original post "The question isn't about eliminating it, it's about reducing it and trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it". Because of the nature of software (as it is digital property that can be easily replicated), having those who cannot purchase your software use it illegaly has its benefits (keep reading before you cry foul). As mentioned by Stardock, sales of GC2 have largely been spreading by word of mouth. Regardless of the source of acquisition, most people who play this game will be impressed and share the news with their friends. For each time this process occurs, the consumer of the content will realize a few things:

1) This is a high quality product being released by a small company
2) There are no copy protection schemes whatsoever
3) There is high incentive to purchase a retail license for the frequent updates

In short, it creates a feeling of trust between the consumer and stardock. Another example of this is Microsoft Windows. By virtue of its ubiquity, piracy is a HUGE problem; but rather than attack the consumer, Microsoft has chosen a similar path: provide updates and service packs only to those who can produce a valid license/serial. From microsoft's perspective, it is better for a consumer to steal and use a microsoft product that they could otherwise not afford, than to use a free, competing solution like linux. While the scales of the products in question cause this example to break down, the fundamental principle is the same. DRM technologies such as starforce attack the consumer, hence its bad reputation.

Only games published by big compagnies and/or sequel of a classic or "mainstream" games do most of the sells in the first month and it's not even sure, how much time does it take to crack a copy protection 2 or 3 weeks maximum and i'm generous.

Big thumbs up to you, and the way you treat your customers. Congratulations on the success of GalCiv 2

Steve

While everyone is upset about StarForce copy protection ( a draconian style drm) They should also look into SECUROM7 by Macrovision and see how it works as well.

It functions in a simular way to Starforce. It will install a number of hidden drivers that are not removed when you uninstall a game. It puts it's tendrils into the registery, and has ring level 0 access (I think). It too will mess with your cd/dvd drive and burners and blacklist your legitmate software.

Where starforce supposeldy claims their blacklisting of your software is temporary, securom7 is permanently running in the background doing it's thing. I haven't had trouble with securom7 until this summer when a newer version of it was released. I'm lucky if my games with it will run at all as it randomly works and they still haven't fixed the issue.

FEARs new version of Securom7 made it so I couldn't play ANY of my securom protected games. THANKS SECUROM! not.

Basically if you don't a cd/dvd rom drive it likes it will simply fail to run the program (i've noticed that in small print on the bottom of game boxes they are now printing a warning stating that the drm on the disk may prevent the game from running on certaint types/brands of drives...what is up with that?). Starforce is the same here as well. Both WILL block you from your software if it doesn't like your drive. They say, "oh just go out and buy a different drive for like 50$ no big deal" I was always against Starforce for the level of invasivness and precedent it set. Now that Securom has gone down the same road I am also against them as should you be.

It's absurd that they feel they can dictate what hardware I must own. It's important to note that there are different versions of Securom that provide a different set of features. Securom4 isn't as bad (still annoying drm though) but Securom7 is a joke. It's cracked easily and it fails to allow legitmate users to play their games.

I never had issues with safedisc and it isn't invasive. It works by installing a temp file in the temp folder that checks your disk. yes annoying, but at least it works and doesn't prevent you from playing and doesn't put it's tendrils through out your system and wrecking havoc.

While I prefer the StarDock approach to things, and refuse any kind of draconian style drm, I will still make some exceptions for lighter drm methods such as safedisc, cd-checks, and online registration (though drm is still a deterent to me buying a product, I will always go for a quality non-drmed product over a drmed one).

DRM such as StarForce, Securom7, Sony's RootKit, MediaMax, and the like, including the whole TCPA movement link: www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html need more serious media attention and people need to be informed. This style of draconian protections end up hurting customers, businesses, and the economy. People need to move away from this ideology of drm and work out better solutions that can benifit both customer and creator with out reducing freedoms.

PS: I think one of the reasons people don't pick on securom as much is because it's cracked easily so it becomes an after thought, where as Starforce isn't cracked so easily and there is no work around so legitimate customers who purchased a game and find it won't work are SOL. The only way I could play FEAR which I payed for was to use a crack. The other option was to buy a drive that Securom7 liked, which I refused to do. Heh who knows, maybe in the future they will simply start using usb dongles for games *shudder*.

Hmmm is it me or does Starforce use the same thinking that the Mafia uses?? Use our protection or we'll cause you trouble? Hmmm... now why would people support that? My question is why are publishers / developers supporting such strong arm tactics when it's cheaper and definitely more accepted by the community to implement something like StarDock's response to piracy. Lets hope this usher's a change in how developers look @ copy-protection schemes because I for one did not purchase X3 just because it was using Starforce. I really wanted to play that game too, I only hope that Elderscrolls Oblivion doesnt use it or i'll have to cry.

I LOL at all the people who claim StarScrewupyourcomputerbeyondallbeliefForce delays pirating and increases sales.Starforce was cracked in ONE count ONE day.

Stardock, I owe you one!

A few hours before I ordered the game in game.co.uk. I was hesitating, since even being RTS / TBS gamer, I tended to frown upon 4x games, but after seing how well you care of your customers and how good your bias towards gamers is (ie. no super-duper protection against hackers) I bought your game - you deserve it. Although 45$ is quite much for a game comparing to game prices in my country - which are ~28$ - I do believe that it's a game that I will be happy to have on my hard drive and on a shelf.

Getting the game that i like - some 40 euros (with visa, lol)
Being able to grab it from the pc at 400k/s, (without spending an afternoon in a traffic jam) - 29 euros a month.
Getting to see Starforce Mafia pissing against the wind once more - priceless!

My congrats, Stardock team. I really like your stance. The game? Well, no 4x game ever entertained me so much after SMAC/XF, and with the kind of support you provide... what can i say, thank you.

On a final note, I do think this whole thing really is a good example of karma in action.
Learn from it.

Bought the game through direct download. Great game! Keep up the good work!
Just doing my part to support a great software developer

Today is the 1st time I've heard of Starforce. I don't buy many games anymore because I don't have the time to properly play them. Now I've got to check my computers for the crap because I bought X2 a couple years ago. I'll boycott X3 now because of this.

BTW, what does Civ IV use? I know I need to keep the disk in the drive and that's it.

Funny thing is X3 was a high profile game using Starforce. It was cracked and released via illegal file sharing days before retail release.
GalCiv2 had no protection and didn't appear via filesharing until 4 days after retail avilablity even though it is very easy to pirate. I guess everyone was too busy playing it!
even then the galciv2 pirate release was via torrents through an individual not a cracking group, as there was no protection, there was no need to crack it and thus the groups left it pretty much well alone which made it much harder to obtain via illegal methods.

Its become apparent from discussions around the web that the starforce supporters feel threatened by your move and the starforce forums are not the only place they have posted such links.

If there are any effects by this, I'd think that you'll sell even more copies by those who are opponents of Starforce's methods and want to support you, as you have become a target of theirs.

I bought your GalCiv II because its a nice game. And because your not pressing on to much to get your money you let your work speak for you... thats the way thx.

Why GalCiv2 wasn't avaiable before 4 days after release is probably because there was no pirate with a copy or no pirates really cared about that game before that time.

You know I'm going to send a letter to Ubisoft telling them that I will not be buying Heroes of Might and Magic 5 nor will I buy any more of their games that use the starforce protection. The best way to hurt a company is through their sales as many of you have said, but I intend to tell them in a strongly worded letter exactly why they will not have my money nor anyone elses I can convince not to buy it and what they can do to get those sales back which is no longer using Starforce copy protection. Here is a link to a listing of their corporate offices worldwide in case any one else would like to send letters.

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/AboutUbisoft/Default.aspx?cpid=756

Ubisoft may only be one company that uses Stafforce but they are a large one.

Correction to my earlier post:

Safedisk is by macrovison (least intrusive and generally works, some report problems)

Securom 7 is by sony ( almost as intrusive if not just as bad as starforce, people report alot of problems with this drm)

Starforce (the devil, Ubisofts spouse, and TCPA lover)

octaviusviii , I've also had more problems with SecuROM in the last several months than StarForce by far. Bad problems too, where games simply dont function. In the two instances I ran into the problem, SecuROM had released a modified EXE that the publishers customer support reps didnt even know about (someone on a forum tipped me as a crack wasn't available yet for the new release).

Copy protection really just hurts legitimate customers and I'm sick and tired of it.

Veraxus, Yeah I've used the modified exe's but they still are unstable for alot of people. Myself included. Sometimes they work but mostly they don't. Either the game won't authenticate, or SecuROM will cause a hard lock (driver issue as securom is a set of drivers). If it actually runs the game then when I go to play another game that uses securom, even an older version it will cause securom to lock up the system again....horrible really. Oh and it grinds your optical drive something fierce. I've have heard of reports that people have had actual physical damage to their drive as securom tried to force the drive to read in a manner it wasn't capable of. Supposedly securom will do nothing as the EULA indicates that they are not responsible for any harm to your system. Now that is messed up.

Securom just makes me hate sony even more.

YOU GUYS AND GIRLS ROCK!

I will buy your small little game only to support the idea of software that lets me use it the way i want, not the way the producers think i should.

Hope the gameplay will be worth the money too, though

cds are stupid with 250g of space i tend to have quite alot of games installed & cant be botherd with cd switching.. a serial key works fine great.
What pisses me off about x3 is the fact that you use to NEED your serial to get patches from the site anyway. starforce is crap always has been.

if your serial key is attached to something important like, Multiplayer, patches or bonus material. Then thats the best way to stop pirates. IMO Its not easy to get a key, If its important most wont give it away.

I find i will buy all my MP games for the key, & torrent the single ones.. However I do buy the games worthy of 40 to 60 bucks, witch is few in the bug riddled code they let slide.

If got a 3.2 p4, 4x512 3200 duel, aiw x-800xt. I built it, i tweek it, i know wtf im doing & people like egosoft, say o its your audio codex or, a driver issue.. & im like but what about the 50 fps then jump to ore belt & have 2 fps. O well the 4th performance patch is on the way. BS thats why people steal games. Thats one i wish i did unplug the drive for!!!! 50 bucks for a game that runs like ass on my computer, "witch isnt great but good enough"

if you make a good game people will BUY it. when you can only buy 2 or 3 games a year it hurts to spend 50 on some shabby crap you couldnt try.

Even though Starforce is by far the most intrusice Copy Restriction out there, if you want to make a stand regarding copy restriction you should cover all of them in your user boycot (Starforce, safedisc, Securom, Fade, Laserlock, Tages, JOWOODs internal one, etc etc).

Basically, Anything that requires cd-in-drive, do-not-buy.

I kinda feel sorry for the StarForce guys being under siege by everyone now. Sure, their software is evil, but they are just trying to cash in on a industry paranoia, just like Macrovision, sony and the others are. It would be better if people boycotted it ALL, instead of just targeting StarForce restricted games.

Also; You might have noticed that some games publishers have stated that they will not use Starforce in the US of A, but they'll use it in Europe... You now have a choice to boycot the publisher because they use Starforce in Europe, or do you give them money for the restriction you get in the USA, even though they'll use SF other places.

Make up your mind where your boycot lies. If starforce goes under, and something else takes its place, will you then have to start a NEW boycot on that product, or would you just start boycotting everything right now.. - cover all bases.

Regardless of what copy restricted games come out this year, you can still play GalCiv ][ without any hassle...

"Hassle Free Gaming, It Sells"

Kind of strage, I decided to remove X3 from my system since it was taking up so much space and I was not playing it. When I did so, one of the problems I was having went away. Basically it was taking several minutes to shut down my computer every time. I could not figure out the reason. After removing X3, my computer now shuts down within seconds. Something wierd going on with Starforce?

The comment about the people using pirated copies of software they bought takes me back to the early '80s. I bought Wizardry, which came on a heavily copy-protected floppy and also stored save-game information on the same disk. After playing it for a while on the Apple IIs at college I discovered that it would only work on certain machines. I got the disk replaced, and it was fine for a while... then would only work on certain machines.

Apparently the way they did the copy protection, writing the saved games on a machine with a drive a little fast or slow would shift some sectors around so the copy protection failed.

I had to get a pirated copy ... which I had the local pirate software guy write on top of my original Wizardry disk, to much merriment. Worked perfectly after that, on all computers.

Many years later I ran into one of the authors of Wizardry, and he was equally amused when I told him the story.

I always use No CD cracks (at least used to when people made them). Not because I have pirated games, quite the contrary, all the games I've played for the past several years were quite legitimately mine, and I have the CDs safely in their cases and in storage. No, I use No CD cracks because if I want to play a game, I don't want to have to dig around to find the blasted CD, I want to be able to just click the shortcut and be away.

My tastes tend to run in streaks, for a few days game A will be of interest, with a little B, then A will be replaced by C, then C by D, then B by E, D will be replaced by F, and maybe E will go back to A. Thus over the course of a few weeks I can spend some time with a half dozen different games. And I would rather not have to hunt down a CD every darn time.

This is one thing I think is so great about GC2. It just sits happily on my machine, when I want to play, its two clicks away (one to get to the start-up menu, one to start the game). No unnecessary wear on my CD ROM, and no unnecessary wear on my CDs. Heck, I've got 240 GB of HD space, I can install every game I have completely on my hard drive and never need the CD again - if they'll let me.

Routine CD checking is one thing, annoying but not a big deal. StarForce on the other hand are a bunch of a-hats. Pure 100% [obscenity]. Not only do they make crap ware that is an open invitation to viruses and online cheats (among other various sins of bad software design) in the name of 'preventing software piracy', but they have the audacity to not only disrespect Stardock for having a different view on how to go about that goal, but in fact indirectly encourages piracy of Stardock's software.

What a bunch of scum. I too won't buy anything with their 'protection' on it, thanks very much.

As 'Frogboy' says above, piracy is a very real issue. But in all probability, its going to happen no matter what you do. You don't want to make it easy for the pirates so there are disk based copy protections, CD keys, regitration keys whatever. In truth, a lot of people who use pirated software or music simply wouldn't buy it if they had to actually pay for it (either they don't have the money, or simply don't care enough to pay for it).

But when your 'security' starts to have a negative impat on your legitimate users (such as StarForce or Sony's simlar little root kit on their music CDs), then you've gone to far in the name of security. To prevent the loss of sales that you probably never had in the first place.

I think Stardock has the better model. Instead of trying to discourage piracy, they reward honesty. Its a subtle difference, but it looks like a successful one.

And while Starforce gets lots of heat for their tactics from legitimate users, do you think Stardock is going to get many complaints from their legitmate users? "What? Stardock wants to give me more free updates and features!! All they do is improve their software! Damn them!"

Riiiight.