Illegally downloaded GC2, now am buying it

Same here. I've been burned by the "next Master of Orion!" so many times (even by MOO3!) that I was skeptical of GalCiv (and never played the first one), but no copy protection and it just being that damn good (ship designer helped alot, too ) made me say hell with it I'm buying it. A true beacon of light in this sea of big corp gaming crap (Empire At War, I'm looking at you).

EaW isn't complete crap... though Tim at CAD says that the only thing really redeeming it is that it's set in the Star wars universe. Otherwise the game would be screwed. I wonder how many people who download a game eventually go out and buy the game.

Empire at War is actually quite good. It's really innovative, if not too deep. An expansion or a big patch would is all it needs to be fixed.

Always good to see a new convert. Welcome to the customer side

Don't worry, Duffman, I still hate you

EaW, innovative? Care to point out a 'new' or 'original' feature? Pffft. Saying a game is broken but you'd buy an expansion to fix it is really giving Lucasarts a license to print money.

Anyway, the original example was 'corporate gaming crap', which EaW certainly is. Slap 'Star Wars' on anything, regardless of how crap it is, and it'll sell well. Remember 'Force Commander'? Awful game. It almost certainly sold more units than GC2. EaW, being 'Conquest:FW with heroes and an awful ground battle system' sells because it's Star Wars, nothing more. It's even a dumbed-down version of a decade-old SW game and looks worse than a free mod - Warlords.

There's a "realism" mod for EaW I saw at gamestop. So maybe the game is better now than what I saw in the demo. Wasn't impressed.

EaW is just another RTS command and conquer clone nothing tonew but i do say its quite good with the grafics and all

(crushing puny infantrry with AT walkers)

I did the exact same thing, i dled to try it out, (cause demos can be hiped uP) and played it for a couple days, and bought it.

Concerning EAW, i played the demo and thought the game would be really good. So i bought it, boy did that teach me a lession.

Its SO unbalanced, the multiplayer connectivty is a joke. No diplomacy, basicly all it really is, is total war. Thats it, 2 factions hammering it out the whole time and conquring planets by any means nessiory, not concerned on how the indengus people care if u trapple through thier world. If any one here rembers Rebellion, thats what i was hoping EAW would be like, how ever i had no idea GAL CIV II, would be so close to MOO2, and Rebellion. Got to lov it . But i am sad that i paid 50$ for EAW, and almost bought the collectors edition until i found out its only adds 2-3 skirmish maps , AND SOME WALLPAPPERS/SCreensavers.... an extra 10$ for that.... NO WAY!.

I learned my lession, i dont even play EAW, anymore, am waiting for a major patch or a really good MOD.

Lol, me too. And I never pay for anything. I'm also really impressed with the way this company handles itself. There's a frankness and honesty to it that you just don't see elsewhere.

Not quite sure how you went from illegally stealing games to talking about Empires At War.

Bad nasty people buy games.

Interesting people talking about diplomacy, based in the star wars universe, when did the Empire have anything other to say to rebels than "Die rebel scum"? So thats why theres no diplomacy. And what would you do in diplomacy anyway? Ask for a cease fire? cmon.

Some people are bashing a game, that despite being in the star wars franchise they simply havnt played, yes it cashes in on star wars, yes its not perfect, but its a far cry from anything like force commander (simply a terrible cash in). Its not hard to see why its being perceived this way because there have been a lot of bad star wars games in the past. EAW is more innivotaive than other rts's (ie combining a strategic map with sspace and land battles rather than just 1 medium) But then again it has just taken all of those feature from the brilliant Imperium Galactc II (which i bet quite a few people round here played.)

Gotta love how kids these days try to justify stealing something. Hey doood, I like stole your car off the lot because I wanted to see if I would buy it later. Lucky for you maaan I like the way it handles so maaaybe next week I'll give you some cash for it bro.

well, while unauthorized software use probably can't be directly related to stealing a car, you are enjoying the benfits of ones labor without offering any sort of compensation. Now you may buy it later and that is a good restitution to the situation, but it is unethical behavior as it sets a cultural precendent that it is normal and proper to benifit off of the hard work of others without compensating them (this is called socialism in some places). This is exactly the kind of attitude that helps to encourage hard core copyprotection schemes.

As a developer, I can understand why people would want to crack a copy of a game they already own if there are issues, and I'm willing to assume that alot of people who make unauthorized copies of a product may become good paying customers down the road, or they simply would never have bought it anyhow. But I cannot accept "well I could buy it ...but I dun wanna, I've got new x-men figures to buy.(or whatever)" Those people are scum. They are the ones that are hurting the market. They usually always want something for nothing. These are the people that ruin it for everyone else. These are the people that freakout every Intellectual Property rights holder and software developer and cause them to push crazy laws that destroy fair use and common sense.

At the same time there are always going to be those people and usually your paying customers will always out number them. People in the end will always pay...one way or another, but if a strong culture of digital theft as the norm continues to grow then prices will go up. DRM will get worse, and fewer quality products will be available. I blame a computer illiterate culture, No education in this area, and spoiled children who's parents give them whatever they want and fail to teach any values.

Try going into a store, eating a loaf of bread, then telling them you were only making sure you liked the whole loaf, since you had some bread before that had disapointed you as a whole.

Software/music stealing is the same thing. The whole try before you by idea is just an excuse people use to try and make themselves fell better about thier theft.

I'm glad you decided to buy it, it's much better then to continue stealing it. But when you do that, even when you later decide to buy the game, you justify every copy protection measure out there, which cuases headaches, trouble, and money for the rest of us.

Octavius...... People can rape without going to jail, i think there are far worse issues in our world than a person who liked this game enugh to buy it, dont you?

Besides, there are a large number of very big corporations around the world today right now in a race getting as many PATENTS on BIOLOGICAL material as they can get their hands on before another corporation gets it, not to mention the human genome.
But those people are angels are they? They are benefiting the greater good for humanity are they? I think not.

You should definetly have to pay for a Product, but dont be so quick to deal out judgement and imaginative "cause and effect" stories for which there is NO solid facts or statistics in any way.
Saying that piracy reduces profits for multimedia companies is like saying that everyone who doesnt buy a Volvo is causing Volvo to loose profits, profit that they are 100% sure they would get.
How can they be sure of profit from consumers that have never ever even bought a volvo in the first place?
If you dont buy a volvo, you dont affect their economy in any way what so ever.

Besides, i think Stardock has proven that a quality product WILL sell good and recieve amazing reviews, on the contrary to crappy producs with bribed reviewers.
And Galciv2 has no copy protection.... According to speculations from idiots like you... Stardock wouldnt sell a single copy then, now how odd that the sales are going extremely well, with all the pirates around.
And i return to my original statement, a quality product is what determines if something recieves good profit, NOT wether or not it is pirate-friendly.

Some people are bashing a game, that despite being in the star wars franchise they simply havnt played, yes it cashes in on star wars, yes its not perfect, but its a far cry from anything like force commander (simply a terrible cash in). Its not hard to see why its being perceived this way because there have been a lot of bad star wars games in the past. EAW is more innivotaive than other rts's (ie combining a strategic map with sspace and land battles rather than just 1 medium)

Thing is, the "innovation" is shallow. It's essentially a standard RTS, with the building phase paused while the player fights. The battles themselves, which consume a good chunk of the game, are poorly thought out and don't involve much of any strategy. It's not that terrific an RTS.

People are merely comparing it to other RTS games, ignoring the license (which I would hazard to guess is the main reason why you think it is a good game). I'm a big Star Wars fan, but the novelty of a Star Wars game wears off, and my desire to keep playing does as well when I realize it's not as fun as the other games I own or could own. KotOR, TIE-Fighter, and a few others were really good games that held my attention because of that, but I'd rather play Command and Conquer: Generals than EaW, and I've owned for the former game for a few years now.

--

As for piracy: I don't know. I actually pirated Sim City 4 because it lacked a demo. I made myself play it for only a day, then uninstall it and buy it if I enjoyed it. I did turn out buying it, and its expansion pack. Honestly, I'm not going to go and purchase a game for $50 that I probably won't be able to return, just based on what reviewers say. I'm done with that, it's insane (coincidentally, so are said reviewers). Gal Civ 2 is the only game I've pre-ordered, and I have no idea why I did that. I don't regret it though.

But I cannot accept "well I could buy it ...but I dun wanna, I've got new x-men figures to buy.(or whatever)" Those people are scum

I would have to say thats a load of rubbish Ocatavius. The people who are scum and ruining the market are the crappy developers (if they can be given such a professional title) that churn out total crap which an innocent customer forks out 30-40 pounds ($50 or whatever) for then realises after 15 minutes of playing that it is a load of shite. THAT should be illegal. You should see the pile of games I have that fit in that category. The ONLY way to ensure I stop feeding my hard earned cash into the jaws of this putrid corporate monster is to "try before I buy". For the last few years, unless it was a game I was 100% sure about (i.e. Had previous versions ala Civ or there was an available demo) I picked up a cheap pirate, played it for an hour. If after that hour I liked it, I would buy the game. The vast majority went on the CD heap I use to hang from various parts of my balcony to ward off pigeons.

In a real market, with quality regulations, those developers would NEVER have got my money anyway as I would have demanded a refund.

So thanks for painting us all with the same brush (I am neither a spolied child or computer illiterate).... but I suppose I could just as easily say that you must be one of those crappy developers who rely on customer ignorance to sell your product.

With so many new pc games coming out and many being same genre it is hard to pick and choose. SO many games ive bought past few years have really sucked. Wish i illegaly downloaded the game and tried it first (not all games have demos). Though GC2 i had no fears that it was going to be crap, they do good work at SD.

But now that most computer game retalers wont even exchange games or use them as trade in now you will see more people doing this.

It really sucks that games can run up over 50$ USD and if you dont like it you cant return it or trade it in. Granted there are many ways to copy and then return a game, but 50$ is 50$ and thats a good bit of money for some people.

I dont see anything wrong with people buying something after they try it out, even if it is illegal. But shouldnt take advantage of other peoples hard work.

WHy i like some companies now that offer free downloads of the game, they have like a 24hr to 30day trial and at the end of the time you cant play or use app anymore. You can then purchase it or remove from your HD.

Companies have been robbing the consumer for decades. Only difference between them and us is they press charges when we do it

I do agree the current scheme for PUBLISHERS and the music and movie industries is largly about getting you to pay for crap...multiple times preferably through drm and other methods.

For the record:

I am for company's that let you use a program unhindered for 48hrs to 30days. Plenty of time to evaluate a product. Very few game company's do this but if they did you better believe they would be making a better value product.

I am TOTALLY for stardocks model of doing business. and yes they do prove that Piracy is something not to fret over as you can make plenty of money and plenty of people will buy your product even if it isn't protected.

For the record I am against DRM.

I'm also against the fact that return policies for software have made non-exsistent several years ago.

I'm also against the large number of poor demo's that don't let you get a good idea of the product and its overall quality.

These problems combined put presure on people to seek another way to make a good choice about a purchase. So in a way Publishers and Drm are just as much to blame for piracy and unauthorized copying of products.

In my previous statement I was attempting to say that downloading and then buying was one thing but simply enjoying the entire product and offering no compensation to those who worked on it is fundementally wrong and there is NO justification for it. So what if the company is ran by osama bin laden. It doesn't matter. Just because you feel there is something morally "wrong" with someone doesn't give you the right to commit wrong on them. The whole "well I feel the developer was trying to rob me blind so I'm going to rob them instead" is about as F'ed up as one can get. Might as well say goodbye to society cause that kind of attitude is the pathway to destruction pal. TRY REEEEALLY HARD to think about the ramifications if everyone thought that way...really its not to difficult.

I am just disturbed by the growing casual attitude of people obtaining software and media, and enjoying/using it without EVER intending to compensate the creators other than jumping on a forum and telling them how you just ripped them off (honestly that really isn't helping your cause against drm or "bad games")

Oh and I'm not saying the original poster is scum or the other users who..pirated the software. I'm saying you are a low life if you pirate it, use it but never intend to buy it though you liked it. No numbers or statistics can prove the situation or the ramifications of the dishonesty, but the dishonesty of those that do play and no pay will ultimately hurt small developers and limit what they can achieve.

In my opinion piracy is a two way street these days. You have the software pirates and then you have the publisher/developer pirates that put out a crap game and then don't support it. Anyone remember "Pax Romana"??
I'm not a pirate of software and I will either buy it outright retail or if I know it's crap out of the box wait for a bargain bin price of less than $10, $5 or less most of the time.

Of course with publishers it's "legal" to steal peoples money with "hype" and then when you get the game you find out it's a piece of crap and most software retail outlets nowadays won't allow returns of opened software. If publishers wan't to prove their trust in paying customers, then bring back the "refund" policy either directly or thru the retailer. I see so many promise a lot and then deliever so little. I'm tired of it myself, but, rather than go the piracy route I just wait for bargain bin pricing and hopefully the full patch load that makes the game play like it should have out of the box.

I jumped on Stardocks GalCiv II though before it was released. Preordered, because the feedback from beta testers and the constant info from the devs to us the customers just spells greatness. Of course the game has it's issues out of the box, but, when I know the publishers and developers are going to support and fix what is broken, I'm not so angry at the purchase. But, a game like "Pax Romana" man, I wish that publisher and developers would be hanged.

No copy protection or cd required in the drive also tells me they trust me to purchase the game and as I can see here it tells me some pirates download the full game to see if it's "worth buying". A FULL DEMO sotospeak, not a bad idea. Hey if it gains sales from a pirate it's got to be good. There's always gonna be those that aren't going to pay for a game no matter what, but, seeing that and knowing that and not punishing your paying customers makes Stardock stand out like no other. I personally hate Steam/Valve and will never purchase or download any of their games.

The big question is how many customers do you lose to piracy because of copy protection and cd required or some system like Steam/Valve? The Industry should start asking themselves that question. This new STARFORCE is another issue that is keeping me from buying some games that I would have normally bought. It ruined two of my CDroms made them where they wouldn't read anything, my system wouldn't even recognize they were installed after STARFORCE got secretly installed into my system. Once I found the STARFORE remover file, they went back to working as before, but, of course I can never play those games that I paid good money for now because of this crap out of Starcrapforce. This is something that could certainly throw someone over the line to piracy just so they can play a game they "BOUGHT" without ruining their hardware.

LoL I don't think it's a good idea to try to justify piracy as anything other than wrong. It's bad, it's selfish. If the entire world did it then anyone who operates off of intellectual property would simply be unable to operate. That's about all there is to it.

Now, what I find truly brilliant is Stardock's understanding that piracy is now and will always (to some extent) exist, and how they lure us in with the pirateable base version but make it so we have to be paying customers to get the updates.

They never would have hooked me otherwise. Absolutely brilliant.

Ok then, the next time you come to a rolling stop at a stop sign and then go, don't use your blinker when making a turn, go 1 mile over the speed limit, then you should make sure you report this to your local police station or highway patrol dept because you are effectively "stealing" from them by not paying those fines for the laws that you have broken. Oh wait you say, you didn't get "caught" so that makes it ok huh? lol I love how people will unjustify one thing and then break laws everyday and justify those. No one is the perfect model human being. From taking a pen or pencil from work, using the work place copy machine or printer for their own benefit, etc. etc. Stealing is stealing and breaking the law. Now I will anxiously watch how others will "justify" some forms of stealing and breaking laws as opposed to software piracy.

Having games , music etc is not a requirement to survive, though it its much more like nice to have.

On the other hand people who are used pirate software, games music usally later on buy these things when tey have the money. (At least from my experience)

What I miss from my young days is goodies:

Anybody remembers the old text adventures like : Hitchikers Guidle" "Leather godesses of Phobos" , The old Ultima games with maps etc. MOM with their spellbooks ?

I like the way Stardock handles these things because they offer you benefits being a "honest" custome (Upgrades along the line)

What really annoys me if I am a customer and have disadvantages in comparisson if I pirated the thing rigth away. For example music CDs which cannot be played on a computer or MP3-player ; DVD which I buy and tell me for the first 2minutes how bad piracy is (Cannot skip the anti piracy intro 1:45 minutes for example on two new DVDs bought last week)

i download a lot of games before i buy them because from my experience a lot of games either dont run well or are really really blown up in previews after that i get the whole game so i can play without being bothered by anything.

but i had the confidence in stardock that galciv2 would be good off the fly and atleast untill now it lives up to that expectation.

This has developed into an interesting thread, remarkably (touch wood) free from name-calling considering the sensitive nature of the topic.

Anyway, my two cents:

The typical analogy drawn between illegally copying software and stealing, say, a loaf of bread is disingenious. If I take a loaf of bread, someone is one loaf of bread short. If I copy a piece of software, no-one has 'lost' anything, I have simply gained something. The assumption is that what has been lost is my custom in this case, but this is often not so. Let's say I was offered an illegal copy of Halo 2, would I have taken anything from the makers of Halo 2? No, because I would never in a million years pay money for Halo 2, so my assumed custom never existed in the first place.

Neither is it the case that sortware piracy is a threat to game development. Imagine a world where software piracy was omnipresent, and no-one ever paid for any game (the socialism octaviusviii warned us about), do you think no games would get made? Just the other day I played a wonderful freeware game called 'Noctis', and would go so far as to say that freeware game development, without the need to shift units, is often more condusive to original game design. The evidence that great games can be designed without any money (beyond donations) going to the creator is out there if you look for it.

I wonder if those opposed to copyright infringment on 'moral' grounds are consistent in their thinking. If someone offered you a mixed tape of their favourite music would you refuse it? When you find yourself humming a popular song in a public place, do you contact the copyright owner to offer compensation? Personally I see nothing wrong in someone who receives very little financial compensation from a low-paying job, bleeding the likes of EA out of a tiny percentage of their billion pound empire.

Having said all of this, I am proud to say I purchased GalCiv2 the day it came out even though I haven't bought (or copied) a game since Alpha Centauri about 6 years ago. This was not because I felt obligated to the developers intellectual rights - as my post has indicated I attach little weight to such things - it was because I approved of their approach to development, copy protection, and the quality game being offered for a reasonable price. The best way to show this admiration is to compensate those who made it for their time. Sorry for the ramble, but this is both an important and interesting area not just of software development, but the philosophical justification behind the concept of copyright.

Off to play some more (legally purchased) Galciv2 now.

I support small developers and companies that make good games,but EA GAMES can go to hell.I will pirate every piece of EA software for the rest of my life.EA is the devil I tell you.