political borders

from GalCiv2 Forums
The case now: non-restricting borders:
What are borders effectively for, if they don’t prohibit movement of foreign ships/fleets?
Who would ever allow a foreign, potential hostile nation to install/establish a (potential military) colony in its own territory?

Each alone is nothing less than strategic suicide! Combined is even more insane! Apart from that I just don’t like it, having a foreign nation in my territory simply because that is just, only and simply most unrealistic!

So PLEASE, I beg you, implement an option, that prohibits entering another nation’s territory at all, unless these two nations are allied or at war or have a corresponding treaty (a new diplomatic option)! That of course would evoke a very new strategic/tactical element! Imagine a nation which’s territory is in between two other nations which are at war and neither has the allowance to enter/cross this territory.

As you might have noticed, I refer to the cultural borders. These could work as political borders as well, or new political borders could be implemented.

I have already post this in another forum, but since it’s an idea (and I really like the idea and think it would be a great strategic/tactical plus for the game), I also post it here.

My 2 cent. Thx 4 ur attention.
ideas
9,893 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They are NOT political borders, they are influence range... Very big difference.

An example:
Like lets take two countries that share a border... Ok, I don't know any... So lets just make them up.

Lets say "Canada" and "America" share a border... and lets say that they had completely different ways of thinking - different cultures.

Now, lets say that "America's" culture was really dominant, they had a greater influence. So much so that their culture spills over to the people in "canada".. The "canadians" the live in a region near the border start thinking and acting like "Americans". but this doesn't mean that where they live is now own by "America" - it is still "Canadian" land and therefor canadian owned. The "canadian" government would not like the "American" government saying that they now own the land.

Secondly, the "Canadians" can prevent "Americans" from going into their region because they own that region.

However, if a region of "Canada" defects and says 'This is it! I am going to follow the "American" government', then and only then does that area of "Canada" now belong to "America".

Now in regards to space, there is a lot of emptiness. No one owns that emptiness (it isn't a part of any race), and so you can't say who and who can't go there. But you do own the planets. So the planets are your regions, and therefor you political borders. You can control who goes there.

Also if an opponents planet is in your region, you still don't own it (until they revolt), and can't govern who can go in the space near that planet (which makes sense, otherwise your opponent won't be allowed near his own planet if it is in your influence and visa versa!! now that would suck).


So, this results in an idea that is different to most TBS games. And different is good! now you have to adapt to that difference and learn how to take advantage of it / stop the opponent from taking advantage to it. It forces you to take a different approach to what you would in, say, civ4.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
But to take up your analogy with Canada/US theres also a lot of unused Plains 'nStuff where no one is living and still it belongs to Canada. Or take the 15 (?) miles of sea zone belonging to every nation. I would like to see the concept of political borders: You could say e.g. one or two parsecs around a planet of a race "belong" to them an are an no-no for the others except for alliance partners. (Although still leaving the influence the way it is (me like it ^^))
I mean seriously how would you think humanity would react if suddenly an alien race would pop up and just set a Starbase right in earths orbit? I mean thats what you call a casus belli. Another example would be a Russian Fleet sitting one mile out of New York
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I mean seriously how would you think humanity would react if suddenly an alien race would pop up and just set a Starbase right in earths orbit? I mean thats what you call a casus belli. Another example would be a Russian Fleet sitting one mile out of New York


that is exactly what i am talking about!
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Good point Domaru

If an alien race *did* want to set up a Starbase right in eath's orbit, and we said we didn't want them to. How could we stop them? They could go and do it and there is nothing we could do about it. Except go and blow it up when they do, which you can do in this game

But there is another option similar to what you say, which I would actually like to see, is "Threats". That is to say, you can threaten the other races if they do something. A diplimacy option for "Keep starbases from being planted near my planet, or I will attack!". Also, Keep ships out of my influent, don't attack X race, don't research Y. Basically threaten military action on a variety of different things.
Because realistically you couldn't stop them if you wanted to (other than blowing them up), but you could let them know what actions you would and wouldn't take lightly. They then have a decision to keep the peace or go against your request (of course some won't like the threat and attack you for making it, which makes sense to).

but actually prohibiting action wouldn't make sense, unless you did so yourself with fleets and such,

More work for the developers perhaps? (that is if they like the idea )
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
your point is actually quite convincing ... i like the threaten-concept! and could live with that
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
an addtion to the threaten-concept:

establishing a colony in a star system where another race already has established a colony or the installation of a star base within a certain range of the influance sphere of another race should be seen as act of war. the threatened race can then decide whether they want to declare war or tolerate the colony/base.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would also agree with 4verse. I don't think a real player would simply watch war ships approach his homeworld and colonies without asking what the other's players intentions were. The AI allows for a build up of enemy troops near a world you are about to conquer and doesn't say anything at all. You can take it one step further, It allows you to attack all the planets that a species has and conquer that species in one shot by allowing a build up by everyone of their planets at the same time without a peep. Agreed that you may not do anything about it because you may not have the technology but the threat/warning does put all of your planets on alert long before their fleets reach your orbit and helps determine the intent of the approaching fleet. It should also effect your relationship I and my allies view the species. If an alien race was approaching our planet with an enemy fleet and fleet transports, I don't think my relationship would remain "close" till the bitter end.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Being new to the game, when you change difficulty levels to more difficulty settings does the AI react differently to approaching war vessels or the same as easier difficult levels?
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
ago1000 , The AI does mention that they don't like all your ships being so close to their planets.. And if you leave them there long enough they will attack them.

Secondly, if you do see the AI putting fleets and fleets of ships near all your planets, I think you will be smart enough to see that they are up to something (and therefore declare war) Although it is unfortunate that you can't ask "umm, excuse me, are those ships meant against me, or are you just looking for free parking?". Of course they are just gonna lie anyway if they where intending to attack so asking probably wouldn't help much anyway.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Point well taken SmackleFunky. I've been playing at the lower levels and the AI alien species and I have had good relations. They have never asked about my build up of ships. That's why I'm wondering if the AI set at a higher level if it pay more attention to a build up of arms within a species influence area. I'm sure a human player would ask as they see some ships coming and try to prepare some defence. Furthermore, I hope my suggestions don't seem like complaints. I have to be honest, I've been playing this game for 2-4 hours a night since I picked it up. I'm enjoying it more the Civ4 and RTW.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Point well taken SmackleFunky. I've been playing at the lower levels and the AI alien species and I have had good relations. They have never asked about my build up of ships. That's why I'm wondering if the AI set at a higher level if it pay more attention to a build up of arms within a species influence area. I'm sure a human player would ask as they see some ships coming and try to prepare some defence. Furthermore, I hope my suggestions don't seem like complaints. I have to be honest, I've been playing this game for 2-4 hours a night since I picked it up. I'm enjoying it more the Civ4 and RTW.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I played a game on normal and i had just made peace with the Altarians. But since i had some invasion plans I still had a bunch of ships hanging near one of their planets. Suddenly the diplomacy screen pops up and the Altarians ask me if I would kindly move my ships from his borders cause he felt threatened. I snickered at that and then complied. It would be nice if you could ask them the same as well.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Political border negotiations would be a cool addition to the game. The most basic form could be a radius around each colonised solar system, or something like that. Perhaps a system sorta like how the influence border is determined, but with each colonised solar system weighted with a constant value rather than one that is variable depending on the planet. If more than one civ has a colony in a system it could be treated as disputed territory, I guess.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Political border negotiations would be a cool addition to the game. The most basic form could be a radius around each colonised solar system, or something like that. Perhaps a system sorta like how the influence border is determined, but with each colonised solar system weighted with a constant value rather than one that is variable depending on the planet. If more than one civ has a colony in a system it could be treated as disputed territory, I guess.


very nice idea! i like it