Tank vs. spearmen? or How to Suspend Disbelief

from GalCiv2 Forums
One of the fun things to do with games like this is try to immerse yourself in the game more by explaining away as much as you can so you can still "believe" the premises in the game. But games like this always have to balance between believability and good solid gameplay, so there are always some things in the game that make it hard to follow along. In a game like Civ it’s when the tank beats the spearmen.

I’ve always explained that one away by imagining that the spearman was an entire legion of spearmen and a tank was just a tank.

In Civ2 you had planes that would stay in the air for a year or two….

In GalCiv2, I think the game creators did a good job with most of the concepts:

The whole idea that a month is a turn is an excellent compromise; I think that works well within the game. The idea of the Star Bases starting out small and taking lots of constructors to build is also really nicely done. All in all, it seems like the game is pretty easy to geek out with and totally imagine yourself the colonial dictator.

My question is what in the game do you find hard to justify? And how did you justify it:

• You can take one 500 million people off a planet and they are all soldiers fighting against the enemy? (the families wait on the transports?)
• What about a faster ship being attacked and destroyed by a slower ship with no hope of escape? (hyperspace inhibitors?)
• Or the fact that you can upgrade a constructor to a colony ship in mid space within 4 months? (repair/ construction ships flying around unseen?)
• Or that life support systems affect how far you can go, but you can fly around dozens of parsecs from your nearest planet forever! (tiny little fast supply ships?)

Just wondering how everyone else struggles with this. Obviously you don’t need to answer if you think "it’s just a cool game".
19,530 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
1) The population numbers are taxpayers so.. I assume there are small ferry ships that bring in the families themselves later on.

2) Ambush! Hard to escape from speed of light weapons. Turning Tail and running just makes it easier to be killed

3) Those 4 months are spent shuttling in new supplies which is where the cost comes from (1 time ships to boost to the real ship)

4) Lots more shuttles! The support range is as far as they can go. More life support means they have the space to be able to refuel shuttles who get to them.. (alright that one's lame..)
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Aren't the turns a week? This has ruined my ability to suspend disbelief, which is part of the appeal of any strategy game. I have to say that is the single biggest disappointment I have with the designers of the game (the feature that bothers me the most is the ship design/upgrade feature, but I understand why that is in the game). Why make that change?
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My biggest objection is how unrealistic the game is. I mean, c'mon! Everybody knows that it's the year 2006, not 2225!

Plus, I'm pretty sure that we ALREADY have factories and research labs and stuff on Earth already.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ok. Yeah the pop only numbers taxpayers. As long as they don't tax kids and seniors I'm sure you could assume that only people of military age are taxed. I like that one.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Even in an unrealistic game, weekly turns make no sense. Why not have each turn be 1 second or less? A week makes no more sense than that.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree with Oxonian.. 2225? c'mon.. everyone knows the worlds gonna end in 2012 and everything after that will be ruled by mutant rats from mercury unless of course the aliens from Sigma Prime goes to mercury and feed off the babies of the mutant rats. Then you'll have the psychic dogs of pluto ruling the stars making it harder for the Dregin to take over the Galaxy and everyone knows that Dregins are afraid of dogs.

PSSHHH...
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What's wrong with weekly turns? I don't get it.

For me, I have to pretend that the morale mining resources send out mind-soothing rays to your people so they don't notice they are paying 80% taxes....
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
hehe actually wetware there is a Hint which explains the morale resource saying it produces some sort of liquid or something which promotes a sense of well being in your people.

Population growth for me. 200 Million people a week....wooot send in my 9 wives....
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
hehe actually wetware there is a Hint which explains the morale resource saying it produces some sort of liquid or something which promotes a sense of well being in your people.


I knew it! It's Flouride, right?! I knew it! I just knew the government was controlling our minds with the stuff!

Fighting tooth decay my eye......
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I knew it! It's Flouride, right?! I knew it! I just knew the government was controlling our minds with the stuff!

Fighting tooth decay my eye......

Space-flouride.
It's a communist plot to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

That's it... I'm modding in an icon that changes all the morale resources to tubes of Colgate.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
That's it... I'm modding in an icon that changes all the morale resources to tubes of Colgate.



LMFAO! Nice one
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I’ve always explained that one away by imagining that the spearman was an entire legion of spearmen and a tank was just a tank.


Heh. Not to be picky, but that wouldn't make a whole helluva difference. I don't care if you have 10 legions of spearmen. One Panzer takes them out. Even if it runs out of ammo and has to squash the remaining guys.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't care if you have 10 legions of spearmen. One Panzer takes them out. Even if it runs out of ammo and has to squash the remaining guys.


Hey, eventually the spearmen will get *someone* on top of the tank, and when he opens it up, look out! Pointy spears of death to everyone inside!
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Regarding the morale resource: read the book Angelmass by Timothy Zahn. (it's about a a morale resource, basically.)
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Heh. Not to be picky, but that wouldn't make a whole helluva difference. I don't care if you have 10 legions of spearmen. One Panzer takes them out. Even if it runs out of ammo and has to squash the remaining guys.


Amusing point of note. You don't have to destroy a tank to render it useless in combat. You can achieve what is known in the military as a 'soft kill', by simply eliminating its capacity to fight.

Maybe the tank just ran out of gas, and the legion captured its crew by starving them out. Or they had a smart commander, lured the tank into a trap and made it throw a tread. Or lured it into a rockfall. Or over a cliff. Or blinded it with smokey fires...

crickel
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
... or spray it with greek fire. Even an M1 will eventually fail when you spray it with burning oil.

Just dig a hole of the right size and depth, soak the ground with flammable stuff, and when the tank dives in *poof*. End of tank.

Now, airplanes would be a different story altogether.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
Hey, eventually the spearmen will get *someone* on top of the tank, and when he opens it up, look out! Pointy spears of death to everyone inside!


Wouldn't work, those hatches lock from the inside. And yes, under normal combat conditions, they are locked up, it's not something the crew would have to do when a spearman got close. Ambushing the tank when it's not buttoned up would be possible, as living in a tank isn't the easiest of things to do.

crickel's ideas of how to beat a tank are more in line with reality.

Of course, the reason Civ3 had this problem is because all units had basically the same number of hit points, so there wasn't enough diversity. I believe they improved that situation in Civ4. Can't speak for 1 or 2, never played them.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
• You can take one 500 million people off a planet and they are all soldiers fighting against the enemy? (the families wait on the transports?)

What sucks is the 500 million people seems to be trained into battle-hardened soldiers while on the transport. Simply because they were on the transport, they become much stronger and can kill lots of citizens from the opposing civilization even if they just got on the ship a week before.

• What about a faster ship being attacked and destroyed by a slower ship with no hope of escape? (hyperspace inhibitors?)

like someone said earlier.. ambush... that or you go so fast you went straight into the beams and missiles

• Or the fact that you can upgrade a constructor to a colony ship in mid space within 4 months? (repair/ construction ships flying around unseen?)

you could have the weakest engine (hyperdrive) yet somehow the repair/construction ship can somehow reach there near even if it's 10 sectors away.
• Or that life support systems affect how far you can go, but you can fly around dozens of parsecs from your nearest planet forever! (tiny little fast supply ships?)

just like the last one.. as long as life support goes.. there are little invisible elves ships doing the biddings I suppose.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What sucks is the 500 million people seems to be trained into battle-hardened soldiers while on the transport. Simply because they were on the transport, they become much stronger and can kill lots of citizens from the opposing civilization even if they just got on the ship a week before.


This is easily explained by the attacker having air (space) superiority.

you could have the weakest engine (hyperdrive) yet somehow the repair/construction ship can somehow reach there near even if it's 10 sectors away.


You are assuming that space is completly empty apart from your/enemies ships that you can see. Why wouldn't there be lots of civilian stuff out there that's simply not shown for simplicity. Your crew would buy some spare parts from the locals and re-engineer the ship themselves. Or imagine that you contact one of the omni present mega corporations you probably know from instant buying stuff on planets. If you don't like the star trek feel of the crew screwing around with the ship like Scotty and mr Spock would.

just like the last one.. as long as life support goes.. there are little invisible elves ships doing the biddings I suppose.


The life support could be seen as teleporting devices for resupplying the ships with supplys from your bases.

You can always make up some fluff explanation for things, esp. in a sci-fi setting.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is easily explained by the attacker having air (space) superiority.



And yet, it doesnt show on the planetary invasion screen.




Monc34
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
greggbert, I want to agree with you, but honestly... how can you not notice the insane population explosion that all sentient species experience in GC2?

Fast ships can't outrun barges with no engines whatsover? Women and children join armies? Bahhh... that's peanuts compared to puberty at one month and birthing every month thereafter for one's entire life. While engaged in land combat in the army, of course.

Maybe I should rename my empire to "The Fighting Fetuses"
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It probably takes time to start folding space time to warp. Without warp, all engines move at pretty much the same rate.

Cloning, or in the case of the Yor, manufacturing. Not sure why morale would affect pop growth, though...
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Cloning, or in the case of the Yor, manufacturing. Not sure why morale would affect pop growth, though...


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