I've no problem of this nature. By mid game I way out-tech the AI on normal and hard setting. Haven't tried insane difficulties yet.

I start by getting my economy and research facilities up. Then I research economy and research and production. Meanwhile the AI are concentrating on weaponry and maybe trading it. Considering how much they usually want for mil tech, I don't trade(buy) these.
Later, I find that I will meet the minors, and they will happily trade away a lot of basic mil tech for one advanced civ tech, often giving me large amounts of money into the bargain. I capitalize on this and multiply what I get.

After that it's catch up time, and because I have infrastructure where the AI had guns, I win this race easily.

Just have to be prepared to quickly build a lot of defenders if the AI gets militant all of a sudden. So far, by the time they try that, I have no military, but so much infrastructure that I can whip up a far superior army within 5-10 turns.

I don't want to be rude, but my reaction is: stop whining kids, and learn how to play the game

It doesn't matter how smart that is from the AI (*if* it is. Which I don't think). Fact is that they share the same tech and that makes it very boring to play against them... they all have the same weapon types, the same defense types, the same bonuses etc etc.
The problem is not so much that you can't outtech them as easily, the problem is that they all have the same stuff.

Yeah I would think the larger the map the less frequent the trades so the problem wouldn't be as apparent.
I play with 4 bright races on a small map and midrange settings for planets etc.

I find when I finally meet everyone about 20 weeks into the game they all have very similar techs and about 3x what I have. And have usually 3 defenders and constructors on the move. I usually have on average one more planet and the same economy rating and population. I usually fill the planets with factories buying the first 3 on each, then let SocProd take over until all spaces are filled then change the factories to research or whatever which usually takes 1 turn per building. From taking over a few planets later in the game I see the AI doesn't build as extensively.

So what I'm trying to figure out is how the AI builds it's ships AND does it's research so fast. It would seem by the similar techs when trading that they are exchanging prettyy much everything with each other. I mena in 20 weeks I can typically knock out 3-4 techs depending on my focus and use cash to buy buildings. But also not long after meeting the races they have capitals up and running and they seem to get them within 5 turns of each other....

I wish I could see what they are doing because...I have also seen a capital formed on the second turn which they had to buy I would assume but how'd they get the right techs so fast?

Yeah to me it seems they are 'cheating' with their techs since there is only one way to really BUY them and that seems like it should be fairly rare.

EDIT:

Now I remember. I tried a game with all the same setting except I changed research to very slow and after the usual 20ish turns they all had nearly the exact same techs and ships I notice in a normal research game. I had the same usual 4ish techs but I focused pretty hard on research.

The AI is only doing what a smart human player will do. So don''t blame this on a poor AI - it's actually very smart.

I am wondering also about that: what is the algorithm used by player when deciding to go for tech exchange. If it is to grabe any avilable tech they don't have, then I don't know why the AI couldn't do the same.

The problem is not so much that you can't outtech them as easily, the problem is that they all have the same stuff.

I guess it is the root of the problem: how to have a good tech trading that doesn't end to have all AI having the same techs when lots of races are on the map.

BTW, in some betas, when a late minor pop up, it got all of YOUR techs. Very annoying

I noticed too that the AI civs had all almost the same techs, and i dont think this is ver realistic.
This leads to the problem that every AI builds the same ships and this is clearly stupid.

As i looked in the logs i saw that the AIs trade a lot techs to really good conditions. And even when the AI offer tech trade to me and i reject the deal, when i now propose the exactly same deal, the AI rejects it and i think this is somewhat strange.

I think the AI should stop to propose very good deals to everyone and trade techs to conditions they would accept when proposed to themselves. Then i think it would be a good idea when the AIs would look to the techs as something more precious and ask for more when trading techs so they dont trade every tech with every other player for a tech each.

And maybe techtrade should not end up that you get the full technology, but just blueprints and now still have to research the tech but at double speed (or that you just get the half of research points for the techs you trade for).

greetings

And maybe techtrade should not end up that you get the full technology, but just blueprints and now still have to research the tech but at double speed (or that you just get the half of research points for the techs you trade for).

Maybe something along the line of the anomaly that increase the curent research of 25%.

I think the AI makes some rather unreasonable trades with each other, that's for sure. But I still find that I can beat them if I check for who has what techs EVERY SINGLE TURN. The instant someone has a new tech, I quickly buy it from them at any cost and then sell it to everyone else. with a high enough diplomacy skill, and depending on how many civs I know, i usually can make at least a few hundred BCs per tech. Usually, by the time I meet two or three AIs, I will be trading enough to be on par with the best of them. I follow a policy of not trading my own domestically researched techs, I can usually maintain tech superiority over them.

But yes, tech trading takes up MOST of my time. I like it, but I can see why other people find the AI tech trading algorithm too annoying. It really should be improved.

That said, I just posted in another msg that there is a terminal bug in this when saving and reloading-- the AI seems to get a free turn or something-- and they will have completed their inter-AI tech trading after I reload. VERY annoying.

I don't want to be rude, but my reaction is: stop whining kids, and learn how to play the game

I don't mean to be rude, but my reaction is : stop trolling

If you want to join the tech trading frenzy with the AI and capitalize, fine. I don't want to play that kind of game.

Give us options to reduce and turn it off. If you want it in, then you don't have to adjust it, period. Win/win!

Hope they do something about this... otherwise its just fighting the same ships albeit with different looks since they pretty much have the same techs. Make trading techs only possible with Alliances or something... I dont know, but just do something about it.

The AI should decide on a few tech lines it will specialize in, like a weapon line and/or the cultural tree etc. Then not trade those techs at all unless someone else has the tech alredy (then they need to trade it before someone else does), result = ai:s with different techs. They would still research and trade some other techs not in their main lines.

Then add some kind of cooldown to tech trading so you can only trade one tech a turn or maybe even less. The trade it to everyone before someone else trades it system is lame and should go. Also then you dont need to spend the whole time trading techs.

Then add in options to disable tech trading completly or allow tech trading the way it is now, with the more or less limited tech trading described above as the middle options.

Disable trading techs for money can work to slow down trading techs as well, so it's only used in rare peace begging type trades and to trade tech for tech. Then both parties actually need useful techs for a trade to happen, this will slow down the tech trading a lot I think.

Just dumbing down the ai to not take advantage of tech trading like everyone here seems to be suggesting is silly. It's alredy EASY to totally rip the ai:s off with tech trading at the moment. But yes, it gets extremely repetitive to go into the trade screen every damn turn and check all the races if they researched something and then buy it from them and abuse it selling it to everyone in the galaxy making a fortune out of someone elses hard work .

That said, I just posted in another msg that there is a terminal bug in this when saving and reloading-- the AI seems to get a free turn or something-- and they will have completed their inter-AI tech trading after I reload. VERY annoying.

Well, I won't call it a bug since this behavior was already in GC 1 and was made to prevent savegame/reload game abuse

Make trading techs only possible with Alliances or something... I dont know, but just do something about it.

Well, don't forget one basic thing: how will you get some techs at the beginning of the game?

If thats the case, how come they rarely approach you for trading purposes, yet share techs amongst themselves quite frequently? Thank you for the spelling lesson, btw.

Because if there's 5 AI's, there's only 1/5 chances that you get targeted for a "good trade". It does happen, but the opposite is much more often.

And then there's 4/5 chances that tech spreads un-evenly amongst ais.

If you want to join the tech trading frenzy with the AI and capitalize, fine. I don't want to play that kind of game.

Actually, I was explaining how I do NOT enter into any kind of tech trading frenzy.

I will grant you one thing: the AI all either use the same research prioritizing algorithm or they trade a lot. Doesn't worry me - I make it my mission objective to develop a better algorithm. So far, looking good.

-P.

I agree that something has to be done. It's really annoying to witness all the races have almost the exact same techs, instead of being somewhat individual. This tech-trading craziness also means that the player HAS to sell their tech to all the races at once, because if they just give it to one, that one is going to give it out for free anyway.

They don't. They actually can't distinguish between humans and other AI player. That is a form of cheating and THE AI DOES NOT CHEAT! (except for econ bonuses at levels above Intelligent)

Of course! The AI doesn't cheat - it's just buggy!

Seriously. The AI WILL NOT trade military techs with me - ever. Not even when I offer it ALL my techs, ALL my money, and ALL my influence. So why is it trading military techs with other races? That sounds like it's distinguishing between humans and AIs to me.

Witness this: Your influence is treated like dirt. No amount of influence will buy you a tech. But if you trade a tech for the AI's influence, they'll only give you a paltry sum of influence, barely more than the credits you could get for it, even if they have several hundred thousand influence and only a thousand credits to their name.

Tech Trade is buggy. It would be kind of nice to be able to turn it off as a stopgap measure until a proper fix is made.

Speaking of:

Just look at the log: They regularly trade techs for ridiculous techs in return.

Log? I wan't aware a log was ever generated. Where can I find it for my games?

crickel

It's the debug.err file.

The tech trade enabled at Alliances- that might solve some of the problem

When I play a game, and discover another race by the 10th turn, usually they are 4-5 techs ahead of me, and I rush-build labs to start. That puts me behind for a long while tech-wise.

The tech trading system right now is the biggest problem with GC2's gameplay- but it does happen in most other TBS games...

The tech trade enabled at Alliances- that might solve some of the problem

There is only one BIG problem: each race must know the alliance tech first unless I am mistaken

But you won't be able to exchange tech for cash at lower level. And be aware that there will be complaint about not being able to exchange tech

And will you still be able to offer tech as tribute or to improve relations?

Seriously. The AI WILL NOT trade military techs with me - ever. Not even when I offer it ALL my techs, ALL my money, and ALL my influence. So why is it trading military techs with other races? That sounds like it's distinguishing between humans and AIs to me.

Actually, I trade/buy military techs from the AI all the time. My guess is that you have the biggest military power (or close enough) in the galaxy. I had that once too which made the AIs unwilling to help me make my military even more deadly.
The AI doesn't know if it's dealing with another AI or the human player, it treats everybody the same.

The AI WILL NOT trade military techs with me

Well, I think that it wont exchange some keys techs if you don't have them: why would it exchange some military tech if you haven't started to research them?
What military tech did you already have?

I noticed that in GCI that all the races would be trading techs with each others and especially minor sthat they had not seen yet. Is this stil the case in GC II. ( I have not been able to get my game to get very far yet due to inferior hardware at the current time). I though it was a little strange for a race to be trading with a minor across a huge map that they had not had time to meet yet. If this is still the case, changing tech trading to only trading with races that have been met may stem some of the early tech trading.

Well, I thought about the whole thing some more. I think the best solution would be a combination of approaches.

1) If the AI notes no other race has a tech they own, they will charge a lot more for that tech then they would normally. The AI will still value the tech normally. As more races get the tech, they'll value it less and less. If only one race doesn't ahve it, they'll view the tech at only a fraction of its value. This means that the AI won't trade its unique techs as much, as they'll overcharge for them. This would also mimic human behavior.
2) The "good deal" mechanic needs to be changed. Perhaps limit it to a trade that's only slightly disadvantageous.