Does Idle production eat credits?

from GalCiv2 Forums
In gal civ 1, if you put a third of your spending towards miltary manifacturing but were only building in handful of bases, you still spent teh full amout as if you were builiding everywhere. There was no incentive not to have some cheesy item being built on those other colonies, since you were wasting credits otherwise.

However, it seems that if only half my planets are cranking out military projects, either they each get more money and thus produce faster at those planets while the idle planets spend nothing, or that I simply spend less send the idle planets aren't consuming credits to build.

Anyone know if gal civ 2 works either way? I know research points carry over from previous posts, I was just wondering if economic costs have developed to not count idle planet production.
24,767 views 24 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
NO you are no longer wasting money when you set your sliders. They removed that. Research and production carry over to the next item if there is excess so that you are not constantly adjusting the sliders. And good riddance to micromanagement.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Good question! Sorry I don't know the answer, but since I want to know too, I thought I'd bump it.
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
NO you are no longer wasting money when you set your sliders. They removed that. Research and production carry over to the next item if there is excess so that you are not constantly adjusting the sliders. And good riddance to micromanagement.


So how exactly is this handled? The credits are just not spent, or they are spent and just saved up until you DO decide to build something in that category and then applied to that?
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I have been wondering this myself. The manual left me a little unsure. Is it then true that it is impossible to waste credits? No matter how I set the sliders, every credit that is not put into my treasury is actually used to manufacture 1 point, or to research 1 point?
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Right now, social production is still "wasted" but military spending simply isn't deducted from your treasury.  So if you're not building a ship, you're not wasting the credits.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Maybe instead of "wasting" social production, at least a fraction of it could be converted to something useful or dumped back into the treasury or something?
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I think there is the option to focus spending on individual worlds. You can focus on military, social or research. It is not very efficient but it improves one field at the the cost of the other two.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Right now, social production is still "wasted" but military spending simply isn't deducted from your treasury.

Huh?
The manual states on page 30 that "Social production, represented by hammes, is spent on projects. If you have no projects queued, the number above the hammers will be in parenthesis. In this case, the hammers are not drawing bc from your treasury."
Did you change your mind, or is there a misunderstanding?
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
The manual states on page 30 that "Social production, represented by hammes, is spent on projects. If you have no projects queued, the number above the hammers will be in parenthesis. In this case, the hammers are not drawing bc from your treasury."
Did you change your mind, or is there a misunderstanding


Well, if you are interested, you should look a the following thread https://www.galciv2.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=274&AID=94769 . As you can see, social production problem was spotted during the beta, but we didn't have any official statement about this
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
I hope this bug gets fixed in time for release on the 21st. It is disappointing to see that this will have to micromanaged until fixed.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, I hope as well that it'll be working as described in the manual in the end. Makes perfect sense, and would be annoying if not.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Frogboy said:
Right now, social production is still "wasted" but military spending simply isn't deducted from your treasury. So if you're not building a ship, you're not wasting the credits.

So wasted social production is intentional? To me it feels like an unnatural way to handle production. I would have the current system with the sliders, where if all of them were maxed out you were spending as much as possible on every area (production and research), with no wasted bc. If you can't spend as much as you are asking it should either throw those credits in the treasury, or not allow you to set the slider so high in the first place.

Also, is it possible to produce max in both social, military and research at the same time? I didn't feel that the manual covered this well enough. This text from the manual seems to say that it is NOT possible to have max utilization of research while also poducing something:
Research works similar to Social and Military Production. The
number of flasks that can be produced is limited by the colony’s
Technology Points. For instance, a Research Center provides
a colony with 12 tp. If Spending Distribution is set to 100%
research, then it will produce 12 flasks. If your Spending
Distribution is set to 50% research, then it will only produce 6
flasks. Each flask represents one technology point.

Why is this so? Or have I missed completely (I am assuming the sliders are dependent on each other, so that social%+military%+research% = 100%. Maybe the sliders are independent, so that all can be 100%?). I should mention that I havent played much GalCiv, so I may have made no sense right here....
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
I am assuming the sliders are dependent on each other, so that social%+military%+research% = 100%

It is the case. You must choose how you are spending you BC

But I am not sure to undersatnd your problem.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
I am assuming the sliders are dependent on each other, so that social%+military%+research% = 100%

It is the case. You must choose how you are spending you BC

But I am not sure to undersatnd your problem.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It is the case. You must choose how you are spending you BC

But I am not sure to undersatnd your problem.

To illustrate with an example: I have a total of 20 military manufacturing points, 20 social manufacturing points and 10 research points. The way I think would be logical is to then be able to set the spending slider up to a max of 50bc (20+20+10=50). Now that I have set the spending to 50, which is enough to max out both social, military and research production, the % sliders should be irrelevant, since I should now be producing 20 points social, 20 points military, and 10 points research. However, the way I interprit the manual quote above, for me to be able to generate 10 research points, I would have to completely shut down both military and social production, no matter how much income I have. This is what I find strange and unnatural.

Edit: And my point is not to change the economics of the game, it is just frustrating to not understand how it works at all. I've played the beta a little bit, but I did not quite figure out how this works. I just cant wait till tuesday evening (in europe). I've even studied today so that I can take wednesday off to play the game
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Ok, Let's take an example (number may be off, but formula will be correct). On you planet you have:
- a colony base producing 20 manufacturing point and 20 research point
- a research center producing 10 research point
- 2 factory producing 8 manufacturing point each.

So for the planet, you have :
- 20 + 2*8 = 36 manufacturing points
- 20 + 10 = 30 research points

If you set :
100 % spending split 30% for military, 40% for social and 30% for research, you will procduct:
military: 100%*30%*36 = 1 * 0.3 *36 = 10.8 = 10 BC
social : 100%*40%*36 = 1 *0.4 * 36 = 14.4 = 14 BC
research: 100% * 30% * 30 = 03 * 30 = 9 BC
Total spending: 10 + 14 + 9 = 33 BC

If you set:
75% spending, split 40% military, 40% social and 20% research, you will product:
military = 75%*40%*36 = 0.75 * 0.4 * 36 = 0.3 * 36 = 10.8 = 10 BC
social = 75% * 40% * 36 = 0.75 * 4 *36 = 0.3*36 = 10.8 = 10 BC
research 75% * 20 % * 30 = 0.75 * 0.2 * 30 = 0.15 * 30 = 4.5 = 4 BC
Total spending : 10 + 10 + 4 = 24 BC

Any question?
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
I think this could be improved.

Proposal one:

Three sliders:
Slider 1: Level of funding for research 0-100%. This is an empire-wide setting. You want all of your research generating facilities to output 0-100% of their research capacity.

Slider 2: Level of funding for manufacturing 0-100%. This is an empire-wide setting. You want all of your production generating facilities to output 0-100% of their capacity.

Slider 3: Military/Social production bias. This slider is an empire-wide setting for selecting the focus of your production generating facilities. The slider would allow between 0-100% of production to focus on military production and the remainder to be allocated to social production. Example: If set at 50%, then all manufacturing production would be equally divded between military and social projects. Also keep in mind that the individual planets may also set their own bias (focus on military or social).

Proposal two:
Social production not being "wasted" but rather excess is treated the same as unused military spending - it simply isn't deducted from your treasury. So if you're not building a social project, you're not wasting the credits.

Any comments as to why this would not work favourably? I think it would help minimize micromanagement on part of the player, adding to the overall fun of the experience.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thank you for that explanation Now I at least know how this is handled. This system just seems strange to me (so I needed to have it explained)... I just don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to "produce" 30 research points, while at the same time using my 36 manufacturing points. Factories and research centers are independent structures, so I don't see why they should limit each other.

Edit: Veinless and I are in agreement it seems. The system he describes would be much more logical in my mind at least, and it would eliminate the difficulties in getting good utilization of your credits in the current system (which I would call micromanagement of sorts).
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
Any comments as to why this would not work favourably? I think it would help minimize micromanagement on part of the player, adding to the overall fun of the experience.

Well, it will sureky change the way things are balanced, but it is a nice idea. And this would get rid of the spending slider. But that wouldn't really change the way you are using your budget: sliders at still set on an empire level.

But I must say that the current sliders don't really add much micro management. The micromanagement would be to have sliders at a planetary level.
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Sorry, I meant to say that proposal two helps to eliminate micromanagement, as the current situation means you must watch production on every planet to make sure that you are not wasting money on non-existant social projects.

I don't mind that sliders are on an empire level. I do mind that I cannot maximize both my manufacturing and research.

Now if only we could get Froggy to chime in....
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Sorry, I meant to say that proposal two helps to eliminate micromanagement, as the current situation means you must watch production on every planet to make sure that you are not wasting money on non-existant social projects.

Well, proposal 2 corresponds to the manual.

BTW, even if you are not wasting BC, it doesn't mean that it is the most efficient way of using your BC
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Just wanted to bump this post in the hopes that one of the busy Stardock staff can chime in with an update regarding the wasted social production.

*fingers-crossed*
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
Frogboy:
Right now, social production is still "wasted" but military spending simply isn't deducted from your treasury. So if you're not building a ship, you're not wasting the credits.


Peace Phoenix:
From the user manual (draft 2):

Military Production, represented by shields, will be spent constructing ships if the planet has a Star Port. If the planet has
29
no Star Port, or if the Star Port doesn’t have a ship queued for construction, the number above the shields will be in parenthesis. In this case, the shields are not drawing bc from your treasury. Each shield represents one manufacturing point being spent.
Social Production, represented by hammers, is spent on projects. If you have no projects queued, the number above the hammers will be in parenthesis. In this case, the hammers are not drawing bc from your treasury. Each hammer also represents one manufacturing point.


So the fact that I am wasting BC when not building anything is definetly a bug.



Ok so i guess this is a bug RIGHT??? I can't understand why is it that Military spending isn't wasted but social is??
It clearly says in the manual BOTH are supposed to show a PARENTHESIS when nothing is in queu list, and no money should be drawn from empire treasury.


EXPLAIN PLZ ,
/me confused


Monc34
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
I suspect it is a bug that is more difficult to fix than we appreciate or it would already be fixed.

You can't neccessarily compare military and social spending since the dynamics are quite different.

The main thing is that which affects us also affects the AI. Assuming it is going to be fixed, I would rather have the game now rather than wait for a fix