And Stardock raises the white flag (to Valve)

This has all happened before.

This will all happen again.

Replace Steam with OS/2 and you now know what OS/2 users felt like when we started developing Windows games and apps. The exact same response.

If I had had my way, none of you Windows users would have our games in the first place. We'd be OS/2 only. But sometimes, principles conflict and there's no win-win.

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Quoting BULL,

reply 325

And apparently even silvers don't count either...

Oh they count alright. In fact, they even play poker!

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Okay, since SD are going to be going with Steam for SINS, i guess it's reasonable to assume further releases will follow. I know the main reason is to do with MP, and games like FE, or a future GalCiv3 are not MP centric, but lets assume they use steamworks anyway.

This means, if i wish to remain a loyal SD customer, which i do, i will have to embrace client gaming with Steam.

That being said, and i know no one has a crystal ball, but any reasonable assumption will do, will SD only use steamworks, and not the full steam client?

As i am given to understand, steamworks requires steam to be installed but not to play your title. Where if a developer uses the full steam client, steam runs in the background?

Will Sd be embracing all aspects of steam in the furture, or just be using steamworks for the MP advantages?

If SD are jumping into Steam with both feet, i guess i need to as well, although i am still reserved about this, i do not like clients, but if i have to use it, i guess i better be more informed.

Best guesses will do here.

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Steamworks titles require Steam to be running (albeit possibly in offline mode) in order to play. The only exceptions are those such as Skyrim had at release (which was quickly changed) where Steamworks was actually on the launcher rather than the game itself.

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Quoting kryo,

reply 329

Steamworks titles require Steam to be running

So all titles developed with steamworks will require Steam running, even if i purchase from the stardock store? (I'm assuming yes, just looking to clarify)

So, this is the new direction one can assume for all SD titles? I'm not caring one way or another, just if so, i will bite the bullet now and get familiar with Steam. Better to be up and running when SD titles come out rather then having to figure steam out when all i want to do is play that new title.

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That is correct Neilo,

I have viscerally hated steam for years and at some point 2 years ago I got fed up and deleted it, then i proceeded to boycott all the steamwork games. Now it has come to a point that practically all new games are Steamworks. This very week i finally reinstalled steam just to play one specific game.

But now it appears to not like the fact that i use a Linux box as a router, for some reason... Which means it does not work and i cannot play my game.

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Quoting kryo,

reply 329

Steamworks titles require Steam to be running (albeit possibly in offline mode) in order to play.

As a note, I am able to successfully run Steam in Offline Mode with Rebellion. With this setup I am able to connect to ICO (no desyncs yet) and have yet to test out LAN and Direct Connection in offline mode.

For me and my crew at least it is exciting because we can still have our LAN parties, just have to turn Steam into Offline Mode and jam away.

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Thanks EvilMaxWar!

Quoting EvilMaxWar,

reply 331

But now it appears to not like the fact that i use a Linux box as a router, for some reason... Which means it does not work and i cannot play my game.

Wow...it's getting harder and harder to do what used to be install and double click isn't it?

I had a steam, many years ago, not sure if i have those login details anymore (it was for a gifted Half life game that i never played), guess it's time to get into it....sigh.

I gotta tell ya SD, i hope Rebellion is freaking awesome!

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I just wanted to add that Project Red was able to have steam distribute a DRM free version of Witcher 2 through steam, I don't have a ton of details, (I bought it through GOG.com) but it is possible to do. Perhaps Stardock could investigate this.

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you know what's weird?

even thought impulse has nothing to do with sd anymore.. the cookies in the website are still named stardock this that or other.....

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Quoting Metathiax1,

reply 334

I just wanted to add that Project Red was able to have steam distribute a DRM free version of Witcher 2 through steam, I don't have a ton of details, (I bought it through GOG.com) but it is possible to do. Perhaps Stardock could investigate this.

Well, Trinity is was without copy protection and without any real DRM... and it was released on Steam too...

Steam is used as distribution platform and you don't need to include Steamwork for it... if Steamwork was added to Rebellion, it was too please the multiplayer communauty... you know, these very little group who are maybe in the hundred, almost nothing when compare the the millions who don't play the game online...

Some guy have orgasm now because they can show their achievment online, when previously, it was only internal to the game...

Well, it is not the subject... in short, the reason of the Stardock move to Steam is not DRM related...

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surely it's more than achievement? steamworks does match making and all that (in general), doesn't it? (not necessarily good.. or used for a particular game.. but hey...)

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Quoting Neilo,

reply 330

Quoting kryo, reply 329Steamworks titles require Steam to be running
So all titles developed with steamworks will require Steam running, even if i purchase from the stardock store? (I'm assuming yes, just looking to clarify)

So, this is the new direction one can assume for all SD titles? I'm not caring one way or another, just if so, i will bite the bullet now and get familiar with Steam. Better to be up and running when SD titles come out rather then having to figure steam out when all i want to do is play that new title.

NOt all titles sold on Steam require Steamworks after activation: three of the top of my head that don't:

Mount and Blade series, Dungeons of Dredmor, Crusader Kings II. THink Sword of the Stars II as well, but that doesn't count as a running game yet, right? (is it ok to make that joke on here yet?)

The impression I'm getting is that if you play SP-only, this won't require Steamworks to run either.

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Quoting Krazikarl,

reply 16

It's not like there is any good alternative to what Steam provides. I know that a lot of people have some kind of irrational hatred toward Steam. Thats their right, but they had better not plan on playing many PC games for long since Steam (and Steam-like systems) are the future of PC gaming. Rampant software piracy combined with the features that Steam provides kind of forces this.

While most people in the industry tend to agree right now that digital distribution is the wave of the future, and because of reduced production/distribution costs it most likely is, I would also like to point out that many games that were popularly pirated in the last few years weren't "cracked" until there was a release on the Steam Client. Also, there's plenty of pirated Steam games out there.

What I'm hoping is industry insiders actually take note of the fact that a game being on Steam doesn't make it un-piratable. In fact I'd say it's made some games more easily piratable than they would have been without Steam. No system will ever be pirate proof until they start tying game keyss to a person's DNA (or RFID chip..lol ) .

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Quoting RavenX,

reply 339

No system will ever be pirate proof until they start tying game keyss to a person's DNA (or RFID chip..lol ) .

There's not a single system in the world that isn't capable of being hacked. That means it might take extraordinary effort to bypass such securities, but it can be done and, as the technology becomes more available, it will be done.

Keep in mind that although we get the term pirate from colonial era, maritime theives, pirates in the most basic terms have been around since a monkey snuck away with another monkey's mango.

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Quoting Draakjacht,

reply 340

pirates in the most basic terms have been around since a moneky snuck away with another monkey's mango.

This quote is epic.

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The first written use of the word pirate:

"My King, the evil Pharaoh has pirated your cookies! He intends to convert them to pudding!"

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Let my cookies go!

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Is that in Exodus? Must be the updated version...

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Quoting Draakjacht,

reply 340

There's not a single system in the world that isn't capable of being hacked. That means it might take extraordinary effort to bypass such securities, but it can be done and, as the technology becomes more available, it will be done.

That's why we need to take away the anonymity the internet currently provides, tie everyone's use thereof into their own DNA.

It'll be like leaving digital fingerprints and dna-samples on everything digital you touch (you don't get internet access anymore unless you login with your DNA not just game keys etc.) and then we'll see how many testicles we get to roast over an open flame........hehe

Accountablity is terrible lacking in society (all walks of society) these days, so if we people can't bring ourselves to act more responsibly/accountable on our own we need to be forced to do so then.

EDIT

Before someone cries "but no, we can't allow ourselves to be 'tracked' like that". Our DNA is all over our physical world allowing 'tracking' and/or 'convicting' of those who don't play by the rules. Why should it be any different in the digital world?

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 345

Accountablity is terrible lacking in society (all walks of society) these days, so if we people can't bring ourselves to act more resposibly/accountable on our own we need to be forced to do so then.

Accountability would be nice if it were for everybody but... for everybody? I could die laughing just by thinking about that. People with power will keep stealing while those at the bottom lose their freedom.

Gattaca's main character laughs at DNA keys anyway.

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Quoting Wintersong,

reply 346

Accountability would be nice if it were for everybody but... for everybody? I could die laughing just by thinking about that. People with power will keep stealing while those at the bottom lose their freedom.

Yes, because no one in power has ever gotten away with something they shouldn't or used such capabilities for wrongful intent.

I get wanting to make people responsble for their own actions, but there is no perfect solution and so you have to balance freedom and law. Otherwise, you end up with a flawed anarchy or a flawed totalitarian government.

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So just because 'some people' get away with murder etc. we should scrap the idea of convicting using DNA?

Have either of you 'lost your freedoms' because there are labs processing DNA samples?

Whether you like to admit it or not, the advent of using DNA in convicting someone of wrongdoing changed the criminal landscape. Sure many still get away, but how many more would never have been caught without it.

EDIT:

Using DNA isn't a foolproof system, it is however better than nothing. Which is exactly what we have when it comes to digital-accountability.........nothing.

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By DNA you literally mean DNA right?

Well it's an interesting thought at least.

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I don't think you get what I'm talking about. I'm just speaking where using the net is concerned. And keep in mind that I can go stab someone and leave all sorts of DNA, but if no one suspects me, they never obtain a comparison sample.

Okay, main point... If you tag people, I'm in disagreement and would gladly fight you. If you're asking for fingerprints, social security logins, or prick tests (DNA), that could go under consideration, but there are more ways around that than I can even begin to list. So you can incorporate it, but it should be done in measured amounts to determine if it has any viability.

Oh, and you can get all the evidence you want against someone, but they still have a surprisingly good chance of getting off.

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And Stardock raises the white flag (to Valve)

GoaFan77