Did Apple put something in Microsoft’s water supply?

By on February 12, 2012 12:23:11 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001
+102

Details on Windows 8 on ARM are revealed.

You can read Paul Thurrott’s pretty thorough look at here.

So let me make sure I am understanding this:

If I want to make a Windows 8 desktop app (by far the largest market) I need to develop one way (Win32 for all practical purposes and WinRT..maybe..eventually).

If I want to make a Windows 8 phone app I have to use a completely different method.

And if I want to make a Windows 8 tablet app I have to use a totally different way.

And, by the way, if I want to release my stuff in the latter two methods, I have to use the Windows Store, run by the same company that make XBox Live such a miserable experience to support.

And we would do this…why?

Is Microsoft trying to force me to develop for iOS? It sure seems that way. They’re taking a shrinking market and splintering it three ways (4 if you count WinRT on the PC).

35 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 12:36:34 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Did Apple put something in Microsoft’s water supply?

Well, that would explain the Metro UI.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 1:23:36 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

It's Schizophrenia developed to an art form.

I personally don't like the look of it to begin with (Metro), but given that, MS really needs to develop a unified method of app development or devs will lose interest really quickly (like before they start).

In fact they'd be better served by doing that first and having a large variety of apps for all devices available before W8 hits the market (RTM).

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 2:05:13 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

The PC is a dying market. Mobile (hand held) computing is the future.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 2:24:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting 2of3,
The PC is a dying market

In your dream...

Mobile ( hand held ) computing is great but :

- no usefull for office work... small screen and difficult for input data...

- no usefull for game who ask a lot of power and where player appreciate big screen...

- no usefull for video or quality music... only stereo and little screen... power problem with the more recent codec ( h264 )... limited storage...

- no usefull for professional... how much mobile will need to be linked together ( if possible ) for have the raw power of a server...

- no usefull for surf on the internet... too few site made for mobile and it is a hell for navigate...

The mobile market will maybe hurt the netbook PC market... similar performance... but some people like a real keyboard and a small but not so small screen...  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 2:27:07 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting 2of3,
The PC is a dying market. Mobile (hand held) computing is the future.
No, not really.... Of course the hand held IS gonna be the way of the future, BUT... I mean all the programmers, designers, Skinners & whoever working with their projects won´t be doing it in the subway 4 Fk´s sake.  (Lol) The stationary workstation will never die simply because you do all the final work in your office, at home or whatever, not on the move....

Edit: "T" beat me 2 it

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 2:47:18 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

We'll see.....

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 2:55:37 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting 2of3,
The PC is a dying market. Mobile (hand held) computing is the future.

Perhaps as the mainstay... but viable alternatives to touchscreen typing have to be found... in its present form, it sucks. One alternative is the ultrabook. Another are the pad cases with actual keyboards... but that (or a roll-up or folding keyboard) are the only practical solutions at this point.

The PC has been predicted to be on the way out, but I think we'll see an equilibrium develop between the various devices, depending on need and any given person will probably use a range of devices.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 3:03:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting 2of3,
The PC is a dying market. Mobile (hand held) computing is the future.

 

I disagree.  There's always going to be a demand for a big screen, and eventually a computer will be attached to it.

I think , worst case scenario, PC's become the modern day DVD player/console (now console gaming I think is doomed in 10 years time or less), hooked up to the TV, and machines in the workplace. 

 

Handhelds will have a place, the only way I can see them replacing PC's is when they can project a big screen themselves if needed, and that may end up proscribed the law in some places.

 

That said, if Stardock developed its Games for Mac, I'd probably switch to Mac.  (may also apply if Stardock lost my business for some reason or another, which is unlikely, but nothing is impossible.   Capcom lost my business this year, and I never thought I'd say that.)    Then again, I'm not really a market worth catering to. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 3:14:37 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

My thoughts.

The PC consumer base is big and covers a wide range of needs, along with a wide age range.  I think there is room for all types of Computing, whether hand held, laptop, desktop or whatever else is in the future.  In a household of three computer users only one uses a hand held device (android phone) because it helps him keep track of things like doctor appointments.  We are both the same age, 63.

I also think that folks just entering the PC consumer base are more open to 'new technology' where as folks in my age group, not all by any means, tend to stick with what they are comfortable with.

Like I said, just my thoughts. 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 3:15:51 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Alstein,
Handhelds will have a place, the only way I can see them replacing PC's is when they can project a big screen themselves if needed, and that may end up proscribed the law in some places.

Think: Streaming to the screen of your choice from your hand held device. It's inevitable. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 3:35:43 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting 2of3,
Think: Streaming to the screen of your choice from your hand held device. It's inevitable.

http://ipad2hdmicable.net/

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 4:02:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Apple is even further ahead than having a cable.  You can directly mirror any iPAD wirelessly to an Apple TV  that share a wireless network and get a 720p HD signal over the A.TV's HDMI.  Full audio, full video.  Major corporations I work with and for are currently outfitting conference rooms with them so people can project from their iPad during meetings.  No muss, no fuss, no looking like an idiot while 3 PhD's figure out how to project powerpoint from the laptop at the wrong resolution so the slides look like crap.  And NO cables.  Walk in, turn on projector, turn on mirroring, present.

 

For mobile productivity, try using Keynote on the iPad.  Then consider exactly how many people really need the extra screen real estate & computational horsepower.  (Dev's, engineers, artists, video work, ...)  Students and academics are already switching over completely.

 

For what its worth, I have seen companies firing/ reducing the Windows specific developers on a massive scale.  Enterprise level software can be delivered via HTML 5, you can hire 1 UI developer to cover the iOS specific.  You have to hire 4 to support the windows ecosystem.  You might be able to cross purpose designers and some of the management / support, but still going to need 4 QA teams to support the 4 platforms.  (plus the quirks that each specific device will have)  And when you know your clients (Fortune 500 companies) are purchasing iPads for their employees at 10,000+ units a quarter, WHY are you NOT producing for iOS?  Your business wants nothing to do with the fastest growing tech platform since the Internet?

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 4:14:48 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Yeah right....

Streaming, surfing etc is all good on a hand held, but.......

Skinning and designing 3D grafix on a hand held ?? Sure bacon    

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 12, 2012 4:35:37 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

And, by the way, if I want to release my stuff in the latter two methods, I have to use the Windows Store

 

im guessing they will take a percentage of your sales.... how much is the question, and will it be profitable? (for you, not them)

id love to make an app i could sell for decent profit....

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 8:03:36 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Microsoft will take 30% and once you reach $25K in sales, it drops to 20%.

The PC platform isn't dying, but it is certainly changing.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 9:01:37 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Is Microsoft trying to force me to develop for iOS? It sure seems that way.

 

Say it ain't so Brad!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 9:09:34 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Changing yes but there will always be those who prefer 'hands on' meaning desktops won't go anywhere because lets face it no handheld device  will be able to do what a regular computer does and will do. Who wants to look at 3D images and such, when it does come out, on a screen smaller than the palm of your hand. And what about CGI. Will you be able to create, manipulate and otherwise interact with them on a small screen, I doubt it. Then there are the games ...... I don't know of anyone who wants to play GalCiv or SOASE on a small screen. Sure there are game boxes but IMO a big screen action game beats that out big time.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 9:42:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Brilliant move on Microsoft's part.   BRILLIANT move on Microsoft's part.   The best microprocessors out now are the ARM's, hands-down.  They just don't have the market positioning.   Microsoft and Intel have always had a love-hate relationship, and Microsoft, in coddling a relationship with ARM, they are obtaining leverage from Intel, big-time.   There has been talk of ARM entering the PC space, and it's further along than you might think.   And if they do, I can't begin to tell you how awesome that is.   We finally--FINALLY--escape the x86 instruction set.  That's been an albatross around our necks for decades.  And the configurability of ARM lets you do all kinds of things you could never do on an Intel or AMD.   ARM has traditionally been in the embedded market (which comes in all shapes and sizes), and embedded applications commonly don't need an OS--or at least very minimal, or something funky like an RTOS.  They need a good mainstream OS to launch them into the PC space.  Microsoft obviously saw that, and here we are.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 10:17:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Is Microsoft trying to force me to develop for iOS? It sure seems that way. They’re taking a shrinking market and splintering it three ways (4 if you count WinRT on the PC).

As my pastor says:   This is a "get to", not a "got to".

Looking at Stardock's non-games portfolio, i.e. the non-games half, this screams of opportunity.   If you get in on MSDN sooner than later (Stardock has to be in it already...), be among the first to pursue multi-platform solutions on Microsoft's developer products.   And do note I mean MULTI-platform solutions--*NOT* just you implementing ObjectDock for PC and then ObjectDock again for ARM.  I mean like a QT, or a Java write-once/run-anywhere environment.  While people are pursuing different consumer computer environments anyway, you get to sneak in Object Desktop, WindowFX, Multiplicity, Fences, blah blah blah--and if you are first to the finish line in getting those products out for ARM/multi-platform use, you win the contracts.   This could be a gold mine for Stardock!    The more the market fractures, the more market YOU get.  Aw heck, now I want in. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 10:38:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Island Dog,
Microsoft will take 30% and once you reach $25K in sales, it drops to 20%.

 

 

So is that worse/better/same than the iOS or Android markets?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 13, 2012 11:07:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting neone6,
Yeah right....

Streaming, surfing etc is all good on a hand held, but.......

Skinning and designing 3D grafix on a hand held ?? Sure bacon    

Bluetooth input devices. Airplay output to displays.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 14, 2012 11:29:39 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Its going to be a tinkerers dream or nightmare depending on how you look at it. See a rainbow in the sky, quickj ... pull out your phone, 'droid and or whatever and snap a pic. Send it streaming to your home PC over the wifi and when you get home you won't have to ask why your house got a paint job that looks like it came out of the psychedelic sixties.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 14, 2012 12:16:06 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting 2of3,
The PC is a dying market. Mobile (hand held) computing is the future.

More pcs were sold in 2011 than in any previous year. Hard evidence suggests that the PC is not a dying market, it is merely not the quickest growing one any more.

I envision a future where many formats exist, and the PC will be one of them, but it will not be the largest.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
February 15, 2012 11:28:09 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I think the largest will be the tablets like iPad and such, not so much the phones, more versatility. Second will be the PC then the phones. Computers per se aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 13, 2012 10:13:38 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

App compatibility. All Metro-style apps, including those that are bundled with the OS and those that the user downloads or purchases from the Windows Store, will run on both WOA and traditional Windows 8 devices. Without getting into the technical details, the short version is that developers only need to write their code once and Visual Studio 11 will compile it automatically for both platforms. When a user does purchase a Windows 8 app, they can install it on up to 5 Windows 8 devices. These can include any mix of WOA and x86-based machines.

WTF? not only do they force all apps compiled for metro to be sold via MS store, they ALSO put in a 5 install limit (per purchase)? Screw that.

And then they work extra hard to sabotage compatibility...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108433  walnut3   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000172   Page Render Time: