MarvinKosh's Space Weapons Fix Mod v5E

for Twilight of the Arnor

By on November 21, 2010 2:49:45 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums External Link

MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005
+48

Some time ago the modding community started poking around in the TA tech trees to see why the AI was reluctant to develop certain techs.  We found that some weapons techs were categorised as PD, instead of Military, meaning that unless missile weapons were deployed, those techs would never be researched by the AI.  Obviously, an AI that can't fight back isn't much of a challenge.

The idea behind this mod was originally just to get the TA AI on the right track as far as weapons are concerned.  However as suggestions have been put forward by the community, more improvements have been made to the tech trees.  Some features have been driven by my own need to fix annoyances.

For example there is the AI's passion for spamming factories or labs onto every tile, crashing their early economy.  These basic improvements would get upgraded and then cost the AI even more in terms of miantenance and production cost, forcing the AI to run inefficiently with the production slider at far less than 100%.

All that's needed there is for the AI to be tweaked to skip building basic structures except on key planets where a boost is needed, and if it can be afforded.  Since nothing like that is forthcoming right now, the next best thing is to deprive human and AI alike of early structures that can cause economic meltdown, and in their place have Super Projects which allow for some single-planet focus.

N.B. Use the external link above or choose one of the versions below.  The successive versions are not patches, they contain  all the features of that version of the mod.  Extract the ZIP folder to your mods folder - if one doesn't already exist, create it.  If your mod select screen in-game is broken, see here to fix it.

Version History

v1: Re-categorises Space Weapons in the Weapons branch and as a Military category tech, for Altarians, Terrans, Drath, Korx, Thalan.

v2: Obsoletes Armor Plating, Chaff, and Superior Duranthium. Missile Defence Theory leads to Smart Chaff now.

The basic defence components yielded by early research into defences all start with a defence rating of 3.  However, they cost three times as much and are three times bigger than before.  Along the rest of the defence tech tree I have made the components take up more space and cost more but given them a proportionately better defence rating.  This includes any components that require Good alignment to unlock.

At various defence tech milestones however, you will get two components where you previously got one, the second component being a smaller (miniaturised) version of the first.  The list of these new components are:

  • Tritanium (5 Armour, requires Superior Tri-Strontium)
  • Duranvium (6 Armour, requires Kanvium III)
  • Zeronium (8 Armour, requires Zero-Point Armor)
  • Miniature Deflector (4 Shields, requires Barriers III)
  • Force Shields (7 Shields, requires Superior Force Fields)
  • Micro Barriers (9 Shields, requires Ultimate Invulnerability)
  • Micro ECM (6 Point Defence, requires PD Combo III)
  • Autodefence Turrets (9 Point Defence, requires Aereon Missile Defense)

 

What this new mod means is an end to all those AI ship designs (sometimes based around a small hull) which have a point or two of defence that doesn't do any good.  A ship will have a minimum of three points of defence if a defensive component is added.  By the time components that can give benefit to fighters are available, it's more likely for medium and large hulls to have been researched.

v3A: As Version 2, but with subtle changes to the Terran tech trees.  When playing against an AI using this tech trees, you may notice that they rotate their research projects more effectively.  Or not.  It's a beta, but I have seen it work really well so far.  In particular I have upped the value of a technology victory for the Yor tech tree, because they don't exactly have a lot of techs to help them do an Alliance or Culture victory.

As of version 3A the ultimate weapons are changed so that, as with the defences, they cost more, take up more space, and as compensation they do more damage.  You will still get a pretty mean weapon by doing the research, but you won't be able to fit so many on your ships.

Comparison of old and modded ultimate weapons
Weapon Old Damage New Damage Old Cost New Cost

Old Size

(small, large)

New Size

(small, large)

Doom Ray 22 48 150 330 11, 14 29, 39
Black Hole Gun 16 48 100 265 7, 10 33, 43
Nightmare Torpedo 25 50 160 280 12, 13 43, 48

 

v3B: Changes to the Terran, Yor, Altarian and Thalan tech trees. When playing against an AI using those tech trees, you may notice that they rotate their research projects more effectively.

Terran and Altarian tech trees have been altered a bit.  Instead of the single Planetary Improvements tech branching off from Artifical Gravity, you now have a group of four as follows -

  • Economic Improvements: opens up Xeno Economics
  • Research Improvements: opens up Xeno Research
  • Industrial Improvements: opens up Soil Enhacement, Extreme Colonisation, Xeno Farming, and Xeno Industrial Theory.
  • Starport Upgrades: opens up Interstellar Warfare, Interstellar Construction, Basic Logistics.

(Xeno Communications is unlocked by Xeno Research)

The technologies unlocked change in later versions of the mod.

The basic idea here was to make sure that the AI unlocks the technologies which would have been unlocked by researching Planetrary Improvements.

Improvement changes:
Research Labs, Traditional Factories and Market Centers have been chucked.  Instead you will get three new Super Projects.  The idea here was to not waste the opening of a game by building lots of rubbish improvements that will need to get upgraded anyway (wasting more time) and give both the player and AI some special improvements to use right away where they see fit.

Also in 3B are some new weapon sound effects.  Not strictly a fix as such, but it began to bug me in my last game that Quantum Drivers sounded really dorky.  Initially I changed them to use the newer sound that was shipped with Twilight of the Arnor, but it didn't quite jive with the animation so I ran some effects on it and eventually mixed in the crisp firing sound of mass drivers.  You may like it, or you may not.  You can always delete it.

Plasmas, Particle Beams and Lasers should also sound different.

 

v3C: Same as 3B but with fixes for Torian tech tree.  This adds a similar four-part structure for Planetary Improvements to try and stagger the development of economic improvements, research improvements, and everything else.  Schools are replaced by a Super Project, which helps to avoid an early-game choke.

Some Torian techs have been moved around and new ones have been added:

  • Advanced Space Liberation: Leads to Advanced Manufacturing, Planetary Bombardment, Planetary Defence, Advanced Logistics, More Space Weapons and Even More Space Weapons.
  • Advanced Manufacturing: Leads to Xeno Factory Construction, Fusion Power Plants.
  • Planetary Invasion : Leads to Advanced Troop Mod.  All the other invasion techs are part of the Advanced Space Liberation branch now.
  • Interstellar Construction: Is broken into parts I and II.

 

v4: Introduces Technology Progression research to the Terran tech tree.

These techs are fairly lengthy projects which serve to split the tech tree up a bit.  Because the TPs required for these have been borrowed from elsewhere in the tech tree, it doesn't slow you down by much, but it does encourage the AI (Terran AI at least) to develop its early technologies properly before moving on to the advanced stuff.

v4A: Adds Technology Progression research to Torian and Altarian tech trees.  I've limited the early choice of technologies in the Torian tech tree in an attempt to speed them through the early stuff faster.

Also in this version, defensive and offensive starbase modules require additional techs (from the weapon and defence trees) to unlock.  The Warp Disruption Field requires Warp Drive now, and the Yor get a module that reduces ship speed by 1, making it harder to travel through their territory.

The Torians and Altarians have new industrial improvements.  I've worked up some recoloured icons for them and the other improvements I've added.  Nothing fancy, just so you can tell them apart from other improvements.

v4B: Scales back the Torian mines to two-thirds what they pulled in 4A.  Adapted Factories lose a point of industry.  They still put a lot of colony ships out there, but the rush is not so overpowered now.

v4D: Fixes some of the mistakes I made when editing Starbase Modules.  Adds new starbase modules and makes the Stellar Fortification modules a bit less powerful (but they're still free, which is nice).  Version 4C was just an earlier version of this fix.

v4F: Scaled back the module requirements for the weapon and defence starbase modules. So for example, Laser Cannon now only requires Battlestations, before it required Battlestations II.  Also, fixed module requirements (they were broken, you could add modules without having pre-requisite modules).

v4G: Adds Technology Progression and Core Technologies to Yor tech tree.  Collectives are initially limited in number per planet, but gain small manufacturing bonuses.  Research Matrix gains a research bonus.  Terran tech tree is changed around slightly - New Propulsion Techniques isn't opened until Starport Upgrades.

v4H: Yor improvements toned back a bit, Collectives have an increased maintenance, but are still cheaper to build than they were.  Logistics, miniaturisation and manufacturing techs moved to later positions in the Yor tech tree.

Revised Yor/Iconian starting weaponry and research time.

Also, made Mass Drivers or Ion Cannons research a bit cheaper because it seemed totally overpriced in comparison to Yor or Iconian mass drivers research.  That basically affects anyone who is not Yor or Iconian.

Also adjusted cost of Technology Progression II in Terran tech tree to make it cheaper, redistributing TPs back to techs which come after it.

v4I: Dialed back the maintenance on Research Matrix a couple of bc, given that it's a one-per planet building.  More streamlining of the early tech tree for teh Yor and Terrans.  made Xeno Communications and Universal Translator part of Core Technologies II for Terrans.

Moved Xeno Communications and Universal Translator to later in the tech tree for the Yor because, basically, they do not need to be negotiating with other races in the early stages of the game.

Also, split up extreme planet terraforming technologies, the first stage can be researched fairly early on, the second comes a bit later with Advanced/Expert Colonisation.  Well, not for all races, because I haven't had nearly enough time to look at all of them, but the basic idea here was to stop the AI from burning lots of turns trying to make a few worlds 100% productive.

v4J: Overhauled the Drengin tech tree.  Obsoleted Basic Pits, Slaveling Imagination Lab, and Black Market, but added three Super Projects for the Drengin to build at the start.

v4K: Added a new firing sound for the Ion Cannon (Drengin).  Nerfed Torian Basic Mine and removed the Core Mine altogether (the Adapted Factory now upgrades the Basic Mine).  Limited the basic Particle Beam to just the Drengin, Korath, Arcean and Thalan racesm and added 5bc to its cost.  Reduced the cost of Ion Cannons.  Massively reduced the research time for Drengin to research Planetary Invasion and Ultimate Shock Troops.  However all but the first in the line of Planetary Defence techs is stripped from their tech tree.

v5: The last tier of weapons on the tech tree before Ultimate weapons take much longer to research.  This makes it worthwhile pursuing weapons research that takes less time.  Ultimate weapons research takes significantly longer than before.

The Nano Ripper (new name: Singularity Ripper) has been scaled up so that it is more of a capital ship weapon.

A number of starbase modules have been stripped along with their pre-requisite techs.  There are still defensive and ship assist modules available, but not as many.  Some production assist and culture modules have been removed.  All but one of the sensor modules have been removed.  Mining modules are basically untouched.

The reason for this is because as has been mentioned, the AI cannot read past a certain arbitrary limit.  Accordingly, the module list below has been shortened.

 
Module Properties Requires Tech Requires Module Cost (bc)
Laser Cannon +2 Beam Attack (Starbase) Laser V Battlestations 50
Kinectic Diffuser +2 Beam Attack (Starbase) Kinetic Streams III (Yor) BattleStations 50
Railgun Battery +2 MD Attack (Starbase) Mass Drivers III BattleStations 50
Pulveriser Cannon +2 MD Attack (Starbase) Scatter Blaster III (Yor) BattleStations 50
Stinger Missiles +2 Missile Attack (Starbase) Stinger IV BattleStations 50
Seeker Missiles +2 Missile Attack (Starbase) Seeker III (Yor) BattleStations 50
Nordstrom Shields +6 Beam Defence (Starbase) Shields Battlestations 200
Duranthium Plating +6 MD Defence (Starbase) Duranthium Battlestations 200
PD Batteries +6 Missile Defence (Starbase) Point Defence Battlestations 200
Plasma Diffuser +7 Beam Attack (Starbase) Plasma Weapons Battlestations 200
Graviton Mauler +7 MD Attack (Starbase) Graviton Driver Battlestations 200
Photonic Charges +7 Missile Attack (Starbase) Photonic Torpedo Battlestations 200
Nordstrom Force Fields +12 Beam Defence (Starbase) Force Fields Battlestations 400
Kanvium Plating +12 MD Defence (Starbase) Kanvium Battlestations 400
Drone Sentries +12 Missile Defence (Starbase) Droid Sentries Battlestations 400

v5A: Reworked the Terran and Drengin tech trees, just moving stuff around here and there.  Sensors techs are now spread out through the tech trees.  Techs which give access to a research facility cost 20% less.  Added Super Projects for Tech Progression research.  Added GC2Ships.xml which contains the nerfed Arnorian Ranger and Super Dominator Corvette designs.  Fixed up the Arceans to be more predatory with a +1 speed bonus instead of a speed nerf, but they take a -20 to Defence.  Various silliness fixes in Iconian tech tree.

The new Super Projects are:

  • Infinity Tech Labs: 18 tp, 14 bc maintenance.
  • Pear Shaped labs: 4 tp, +20 to Research ability, 8bc maintenance.
  • Nordstrom Technologies: +15 to Hitpoints ability, 2tp, no maintenance.

v5B:

  • Added Technology Progression and Core Technologies to Korx tech tree.
  • Added Technology Progression and Core Technologies to Arcean tech tree.
  • Restricted the number of money-sucking improvements the Thalans can build.
  • Added Universities to Core Technologies for Torians.
  • Reworked Korx tech tree slightly for visual consistency, altered pre-requisites for Cut-Throat Competition and Mercenaries.
  • Reworked Torian tech tree slightly for visual consistency.
  • Bugfixed Arcean tech tree and reworked for visual consistency.
  • Sparrow missile costs more but takes less space, though not as space-efficient as Stinger or Seeker I.
  • (Advanced) Navigation Centre takes less time to build, +5% HP bonus added.
  • Removed some extra files from the package that were in the wrong directory.

v5C:

  • Arcean tech tree fixes:
    • Moved Xeno Business (Xeno Anthropology) because early on in the tech tree it could be an unnecessary distraction for the AI.
    • Moved Interstellar Navigation in the tech tree to match the order it appears in its group.
    • Miniaturisation techs are split into three groupings.
    • Xeno Engineering is now Industry branch, Manufacturing category
  • Reduced the build cost of Invention Matrix and Discovery Sphere to be more in line with the cost of Research Academy.

  • Iconian tech tree now features Technology Strategy techs.  These are basically the same deal as the Technology Progression techs, but the Super Project list is different:

    Technology Strategy I - Centre for Intellect Studies, +20 to Research ability and +4tp

    Technology Strategy II - Precursor Weapons Lab, +20 to Weapons ability and +4tp

    Technology Strategy III - Galactic Technology Centre, +150% research on planet and +22tp

  • Four new Iconian improvements:

    Precursor Repository - upgrade for Precursor Library, +20% research on planet and +16tp (respectively, 10% and 4tp better)

    Precursor Matrix - upgrade for Precursor Archive, +40% economic bonus on planet +10% influence bonus and +12tp (respectively, 30% better on economic bonus and 2tp better on research)

    Enhanced Invention Matrix - 17tp, 3tp more than the standard Invention Matrix

    Enhanced Discovery Sphere - 21tp, 3tp more than the standard Discovery Sphere

  • Research Centre has a new look to set it apart from the Iconian refinery.
  • Unbuildable stock ships left over from DL and DA are now hidden so they don't show up in the tech tree.
  • Farms are now one per planet, and give a percentage boost of 25% or 50% rather than a straight +mt food increase.
  • An Improved Colony is now available for construction, technology needed varies depending on tech tree.
  • Thalan tech tree reworked using Technology Adaptation I through III as separators.  They now start with Planetary Adaptation instead of Interstellar Construction (you may need to press Clear on their race config screen first).
  • Devils' Forge upgrades to Slaveling Training Center.
  • Slaveling Training Center boosts production by 25% and adds 10 mp, and upgrades to Artificial Slave Pods.
  • Artificial Slave Pods boost production by 30% and adds 12 mp.

v5D:

  • Engines re-costed as follows:

    Speed 1

    • Hyperdrive, Hyperdrive Plus: 20
    • Ion drive, Stream Drive: 15

    Speed 2

    • Impulse Drive I - III: 30

    Speed 3

    • Warp Drive I - IV: 45

    Speed 4

    • Warp Drive V: 60
    • Hyperwarp I: 55
    • Hyperwarp II: 50

    Speed 5

    • Hyperwarp III: 75

    Speed 6

    • Stellar Folder: 120
 
  • New defences for Good-aligned civs: 
    • Duranthium Battle Armour, +9 Armour, cost 95
      Prerequisites for research: Duranthium III and Good alignment.
    • Psionic Defence, +16 PD, cost 140
      Prerequisites for research: PD Combo III and Good alignment.
  • Sensors and sensor array re-costed and re-sized, research cost for sensor array reduced by quite a bit
  • Re-costed the Yor Doom Ray research project.
  • Added a custom race as an opponent, with a close copy of the Yor tech tree and the Super Warrior ability.
  • Added the Omega Beam research project to the tech trees with Disruptors.  It replaces Doom Ray and makes it more worthwhile picking beam weapons in the end game with those races.
  • Omega Beam: Damage 66, Cost 405, uses the Disruptor II weapon model.  Custom sound effect based on the disruptor sound effects, but same Doom Ray animation.
  • Hopefully fixed Arceans getting stuck on Weather Control research.

v5E:

  • Trimmed Minor Tech Tree so that they have a headstart.
  • Minor XML tweaking in the main tech tree.

v5F (Unreleased):

  • Weather Control Zenith improves PQ by 4 instead of 3, has maintenance 2 and improves food production by 50%.
  • Farming techs removed from Arcean tech tree (otherwise they could have large unhappy populations!)
  • Arcean first-tier weapon tech costs reduced by 50%.
  • Arceans have earlier access to a low cost version of Advanced Logistics, but later logistics techs in their tech tree cost more.
  • Minor races did not have Hyperdrive defined as Propulsion category, fixed.
  • Made some consistency changes and fixes to Krynn tech tree.

 

Extra:

Patch to radically lower research output.  Extract to Mods\SWFix_ModV\Data and overwrite PlanetImprovements,xml if prompted.  You may want to backup that file first.

This will not only limit the output of research structures, it will also restrict how many of them you can place on one planet.  Some 1pp research boosters have been turned into Super Projects.

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December 7, 2010 5:48:07 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

qrtxian, I checked out the Altarian and Korx tech trees and I see the same thing.  I've made a few adjustments and I guess I'll see how things go for them.  In particular, once the Altarians have chosen the Good ethical alignment, it does open up a tech which gives them a Soldiering boost, and another one which grants additional Creativity.  They just haven't been categorised properly given what we know about the AI's tendency to pick certain techs.

There was one other thing that bugged me about my last game, which was the way the AI insisted on using the space-inefficient Armour Plating component on Dreadnoughts.  So I've modded it out of the ship components file, in the hopes that they will actually research Armour Theory (or Titanium Armour) sooner, or at least use the space for something more useful.

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December 8, 2010 1:03:26 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Wow.

 

You weren't kidding about the Iconians, qrtxian.  Ever wonder why the Iconians just never live up to their potential no matter which AI you give them?  Could it be that their research is wrecked because their unique techs were assigned what appear to be random categories?

Thanks for your work so far.  I don't want to steal your thunder, but this is too good not to mention.  Here we go:

  • Interstellar Warfare: Missile?
  • Medium Scale Building: Colonization?
  • Beam Weapon Theory: Trade - Apparently Iconians shouldn't use lasers.
  • Organic Materials: Research - hmmm. Could make sense, but obviously doesn't work.
  • Organic Hulls: Ethics?!
  • Self Healing Hulls: Colonization?
  • Expert Engineering: Colonization?
  • Interstellar Refining: PD?!
  • Molecular Fabrication: Missile?!
  • Industrial Replication I and II: Missile?!
  • IR III: Military?
  • Interstellar Bartering/Merchant Emporiums/Merchant Complexes: Logistics?!
  • Advanced Mass Drivers: Beam?!  So they decide to go for mass drivers and get stymied with no more MD techs.
  • Advanced Beam Weapons: Trade?!  They can't switch to beams because they get hit with 2 trade tech speed bumps.
  • Advanced Missile Weapons: PD?!  aaaand, to top it off missiles get cut off by PD.  No weapon techs left unless they go for MD, then switch to beam for AMDs, then go back to MD when there are no other options.

All this is bad enough, but a number of their cultural techs are categorized as economic, so when they look to improve their economy they research yellow techs instead, only going for their econ techs if they want to increase logistics.

Now I'm really wondering what kind of monsters the Iconians could turn out to be if all this gets fixed.

Just wow.

 

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December 8, 2010 8:51:15 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I had no idea it was this bad. This would be a good mod, just to put out a group of fixed techtrees.

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December 8, 2010 4:39:23 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It'll take some time to play out games and see if the AI researches techs at the appropriate time.  There's always a risk that changes will hinder the AI instead of helping them.  But what I've just read about the Iconians tech tree makes me want to cry.  I noticed that they never seemed to get it together in any game, and now I know why.

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December 9, 2010 2:49:44 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Some early notes, focusing on the new techs:

Altarian/Drath: Xeno Mysticism branch is weirdly split between Research and Pure Research. Not sure how much, if any, difference that makes. Also, the mostly ignored Temples branch is Culture; it should almost certainly be Entertainment. And Divergent Evolution is Biology (its follow-up Healing Pools is Medicine), neither of which is likely to be prioritized by the AI.
 

Arceans: Xeno Geology is Research? It goes a long way towards explaining why the Arceans never research it or Weather Control.

Krynn: The Krynn religious tech branches are really, really weird:

  • Interstellar Missionaries and Krynniac Conversion: Economics?
  • Krynniac Disciples: Logistics?!?
  • Greater Tolerance: Manufacturing?!?
  • The Way: Logistics, again?
  • Deeper Knowledge (on the path to Tech Victory): Biology?!?
  • Master Spies: Biology? Again?!?
  • Superior Espionage: Culture? Passable, maybe.

Thalan: Expert Gravity Channeling, for no discernable reason, is also a Biology tech.

Yor: I actually couldn't find anything wrong with the Yor tech tree on a cursory examination. It's possible they've just never done well enough to research many of their techs.

 

 

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December 10, 2010 11:27:03 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I saw something last night that warmed my heart - the Arceans building Weather Control Zeniths and Space Cannons on all their planets.  They even built the Cannons on approval bonus tiles when available.  Have fun invading them, with their 50% planet defense bonus.  Thanks to DeweyJohn's suggestion the Korx built the Mercenary Academy and researched Cut-Throat Competition, too.  The jury is still out on the Iconians after heavy modification.

This is pretty big for the Arceans, since Weather Control is the gateway to Extreme Colonization and Soil Enhancement.  Xeno Geology was a roadblock tech the way it was set up.  Now we know why they never get into the extreme planet game - and get left behind in my game conditions.

 

Fabulous.

 

Now I think my energy is going to have to go toward getting out the next report in the Kushana Initiative AAR, before an uprising occurs.

 

Edit to add: My bad, Weather Control isn't the gateway to Soil Enhancement, Xeno Geology is.

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December 11, 2010 12:02:26 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Something else of note: The race-specific techs at the beginning that cost 0 or 10 to research don't seem to appear at all if you don't pick them at the start. It may be worth making all future techs depend on having those base techs.

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December 11, 2010 2:50:36 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

This is pretty big for the Arceans, since Weather Control is the gateway to Extreme Colonization and Soil Enhancement. Xeno Geology was a roadblock tech the way it was set up. Now we know why they never get into the extreme planet game - and get left behind in my game conditions.

So what'd you change Xeno Geology's type to? I'm running a test game and so far the Arceans haven't researched it.

On the other hand, the Altarians have already researched Xeno Mysticism and are the only race I've met that have researched weapons. All in all it's still pretty early and I've only met three of nine opponents.

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December 11, 2010 2:03:18 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting qrtxian,
So what'd you change Xeno Geology's type to? I'm running a test game and so far the Arceans haven't researched it.

On the other hand, the Altarians have already researched Xeno Mysticism and are the only race I've met that have researched weapons. All in all it's still pretty early and I've only met three of nine opponents.

Well, I looked at Weather Control and saw that it was Colonization with AI value 55.  Since Xeno Geo is the gateway, I figured it made sense to make it the same - Colonization with AI value 55.  My test game is at Sep 2229 and they've researched Xeno Geo, Weather Control, and Soil Enhancement.

Beware. If you want the high AI value, you'll need to change it both in the TechTree and Arcean TechTree xmls.  TechTree has it as Research with AI value 5, while the Arcean TechTree changes the AI value to 15.  I changed the AI value in the TechTree and erased the change in the Arcean TechTree.  I haven't tested AI value 15, but it's such a cheap and important tech that the high value of 55 seems justified to me.

For Planetary Fortification, I changed it from Planetary Defense to Military.  On testing they still didn't go for it, so I bumped up the AI value from 20 to 25.  That did it.  In the same test game, by Sep 2229 they have PF, but haven't gone for Cathedrals yet.

Other than that, their research and development seem pretty good to me.  I read a comment about the Arcean speed penalty that said the Arceans were supposed to be the ultimate turtle race.  With Weather Control boosting the PQ of the planets they do manage to get and Space Cannons holding off the enemies, I can begin to understand how it was meant to work out.  Still, I modded out their speed penalty and I'm not sure if I'm ready to restore it yet.

 

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December 11, 2010 2:09:27 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Hey qrtxian--in a test game, I changed Xeno Geology's type to Colonization, and increased the aivalue to 50, and it was then one of the first techs the ai researched.

In general I'm getting good results from cranking up ai values to 25, 50 for race-specific techs that you want to 'force' the ai to research for its own good.

Here's a technique for deadlier Drengin: set their ai personality to 11, and increase the value of their unique manufacturing (Slave Pits, Slave Canyons, Devil's Forge, etc..) and research (pain amplifiers, adv. slaveling labs, etc... ) improvements. (because, have you ever noticed how under-developed Drengin planets are?). 

I've had my Drengin ai on these settings for a while now, and although they aren't always at the top, they are definitely no push-overs any more and have dominated once or twice even on Large maps with 8 other ai players.

 

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December 11, 2010 2:12:49 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Let me clarify, in the above post I'm talking about adjusting the <aivalue> parameter for manufacturing and research improvements in the Drengin tech tree, not the values in planetary_improvements.xml (although it's fun to tweak those as well).

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December 11, 2010 5:45:43 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting deweyjohn,
Hey qrtxian--in a test game, I changed Xeno Geology's type to Colonization, and increased the aivalue to 50, and it was then one of the first techs the ai researched.

Great minds think alike, they say.

I like your suggestion for the Drengin.  While their tech tree doesn't seem overtly broken, I have noticed that they don't do a very good job of progressing through those techs and developing their planets.  Sure helps explain why they just can't keep up in the late game, even with AI 11.

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December 13, 2010 5:34:09 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

any update on this mod as I am just messing with the raceconfig giving drengin, korath personality 11.

 

we really need a decent race mod that fixes all the ai's. getting really sick of drengin mass building colony ships and not using them.

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December 13, 2010 6:00:12 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Korath can do fine on AI 7, especially if you give spore weapons a higher AI value. Others need a different personality.

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December 13, 2010 6:45:19 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

korath on 7 u sure? will they expand and colonize with 7?

 

what number do u recommend personality to fix Iconian?

 

Also forgot to ask does this mod work on TA?

 

I read somewhere on the forums that changing the main default raceconfig resets all races bonus stats to nothing?

 

Should I just edit the custom raceconfigs that get created in Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor..  of each individual race name be a safer way to go than changing the main default raceconfig?

 

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December 13, 2010 8:35:48 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

korath on 7 u sure? will they expand and colonize with 7?

In my experience, while the Korath do not expand that well both they and the Yor will expand on 7, much more then the Drengin do. The main reason why Korath with their default personality can succeed is because this is where they make the most use of spore ships. Push their aggression up high, and they will be a successful rusher with a rather different strategy then most AIs.

what number do u recommend personality to fix Iconian?

As some of the above discussion suggests, we're increasingly suspecting that there's nothing wrong with the Iconian personality at all - it's all due to their defective tech tree. My current test game with the "fixed" Iconian tech tree is still going, but they appear to be doing much better then ever before.

Also forgot to ask does this mod work on TA?

The mod is only for TA, being intended to fix some of the AI issues caused by the new tech trees. Note that MartinKosh's original mod only fixes the issue with Space Weapons. So far, none of us have uploaded a fix-all tech tree mod.

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December 14, 2010 5:47:22 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I'm fairly late (6 years) into my test game. Here's a detailed report on all the races:

Terrans: Good. They built up a military, which was the only change I really made, since most of the unique Terran techs are various fleet modules the AI won't use anyway.

They're one of only two AIs to research Alliances, allowing me to finally get an ally after being Close to them (and two other races) for years. That's fairly normal, though, and normally I trade Alliances to all the AIs when I get it. This time I unwisely traded it from the first race to get it (the Yor, of all... people) and with Tech Brokering off couldn't give it away.

Altarians: Absolutely dominating the galaxy. They've researched a fair amount of their Xeno Mysticism techs and built the Dark Energy Lab. They also have many of their post-Xeno Ethics good techs. Most objectionable behavior so far has been researching every single extreme colonization tech even though extreme planets were set to "Occasional", causing them to fall behind in other areas.

Arceans: Not so good. They're pretty much a has-been now and are losing a war with the Altarians. They also took losses to the Thalans and Drath earlier. No Xeno Geology (or anything afterward), no Planetary Fortification, not even any Navigation Center techs (which they have normally). I'm prepared to assume it's more because they just haven't done well all game, though.

Yor: Looking fairly good. They had a big boost when the Korx surrendered to them. I tweaked some of the values to their manufacturing techs and they're coming along well. They have the most advanced weapons in the galaxy so far (Plasma - tech inflation strikes again). They took some damage earlier to the Altarians and a lot of ex-Korx pirates, but now they're on the rise.

Korx: Died out before I met them, so I don't know if they went for their trade techs or not. Because the war that wiped them out was a dogpile affair with 4 or 5 races, I was worried they never even built a military, but all the pirates seem to indicate they did.

Drath: Fairly strong. They're still evil, since I forgot to reset their alignment. They aren't researching the Xeno Mysticism branch, and are technologically behind. They also haven't bribed many wars. On the other hand they have a lot of planets and are doing okay.

Thalans: Looking good. They're into their various unique techs now, having grabbed some of the neutral techs after researching Xeno Ethics. They didn't go as crazy colonizing as they normally did.

Iconians: Results seem mixed. They're in a much better position then usual, thanks to the fact that they actively researched their manufacturing and economy techs. On the negative side, their weapon of choice is still Scatter Gun 2, despite being six years in, which worries me that there still might be some issue with weapons. They also are still ignoring the Organic Hull branch.

Minors: Results are a mixed bag:

The Paulos are doing well, with 4 colonies and a large military. They're at war with the Arceans and Thalans but are too far away from both for anything to happen. Hilariously, they built a Dark Energy Lab on their homeworld after one of those random events where they stole the Altarians' techs.

The Dark Yor have no military, but a fair number of colonies. For some reason they got Barren World Colonization very early - maybe the Yor traded it to them?

The Scottlingas colonized many (7-8) planets but never built a military. The Altarians conquered them.

The Jessuins also didn't build a military even though they did get Planetary Invasion. When I declared war on them, they still refused to build anything but transports (which they never even launched). I made peace when they had one planet left so as to dodge the diplomatic penalty for destroying them, and they're finally building warships now.

The Carinoids are dead, conquered by the Thalans.

I just met the Akilians. They're looking strong and aren't at war with anyone.

I still haven't met the Lentzlandians or Snathi. I've had several reports of powerful races extorting the Lentzlandians, but I've heard little from the Snathi, except for a few wonders. Presumably they're stronger.

Incidentally, I am the Torians.

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December 14, 2010 6:34:25 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Wow, I never knew everything was so messed up. Thanks for the information!

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December 16, 2010 1:45:06 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I tweaked my Iconians and ran a test game out to four years last night.  I had an epiphany and turned off tech trading and mega events, so I could see exactly what they researched on their own.  After four years my observations were:

  • Scatter Gun 2 is the weapon of choice, so Scatter Gun 3 seems to be a road block.
  • They never researched Xeno Comms or Universal Translator, so they never had a chance to research their econ techs.  This is why I think no tech trading is important.  They probably trade for XC and UT in a normal game, but without that they have no economy.
  • They researched Interstellar Refinery fairly early on and even moved on to Molecular Fabrication near the four year mark.  However, their economy and development is fairly anemic so they are still working to build Refineries on their planets and haven't yet queued any Fabricators.
  • I boosted the AI value of Organic Materials to 20 or 25 just to see. They researched that, but never moved on to Organic Hulls or Self-Healing Hulls.
  • They  never researched into the Hulls branch, not even Interstellar Construction.
  • They researched Space Mining I and II, a big waste given what they haven't researched.

Looks like it'll take more than just fixing up the categories to get the Iconians on the right track.  Problem is, looks like some basic techs are getting in the way.  It's either reduce basic techs or boost others, but I suspect it will become somewhat complex to get them following a reasonable research path.

What do you guys think of splitting this up - each pick a race and optimize it?  Maybe we can even come back together and package it up as a mod.  I can certainly understand if you want to play around for yourself, but it's looks like there's potential to do more than just fix the categories.  I plan to focus on the Iconians for now and maybe look at the deweyjohn's suggestions for the Drengin.  My first step, I think, is going to be drawing myself a chart of the Iconians tech tree, then including the Categories and AI values.  That way I can get a better handle on what the AI sees.

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December 16, 2010 4:27:26 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

What do you guys think of splitting this up - each pick a race and optimize it? Maybe we can even come back together and package it up as a mod. I can certainly understand if you want to play around for yourself, but it's looks like there's potential to do more than just fix the categories. I plan to focus on the Iconians for now and maybe look at the deweyjohn's suggestions for the Drengin. My first step, I think, is going to be drawing myself a chart of the Iconians tech tree, then including the Categories and AI values. That way I can get a better handle on what the AI sees.

Sounds good to me. I'll take some of the similiar tech trees - Altarians/Drath, Terrans/Korx, and Torians/Krynn (they're actually pretty similiar). Most only have a few unique branches, so it shouldn't be that much work.

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December 16, 2010 5:57:07 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

when your all done with the mod try uploading over at www.i-mod-productions.com/ they host a lot of gc2 mods.

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December 16, 2010 7:00:00 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Hey, everyone! I just wanted to let you guys know that I was able to get the Iconians to research Universal translators. You have to do two things. First, you change the AI value of Universal Translators and Xeno Communications to very high (I went overboard and went to 300). Next, you have to change the category from Communications to Economics. This is important, as a high AI value alone is not enough to encourage them to research it.

 

This is what the code looked like in my game:

 

        <Culture ID="Xeno Communications">
            <Category>Economics</Category>
            <Cost>100</Cost>
            <Group>None</Group>
            <Alignment>None</Alignment>
            <AIValue>300</AIValue>
            <WillingnessToTrade>90</WillingnessToTrade>
        </Culture>
        <Culture ID="UniversalTranslator">
            <Category>Economics</Category>
            <Cost>55</Cost>
            <Group>None</Group>
            <Alignment>None</Alignment>
            <AIValue>300</AIValue>
            <WillingnessToTrade>70</WillingnessToTrade>
        </Culture>

 

Edit: I should add that this is in the Iconian's tech file, not the default one.

Edit 2: The code I used seemed to have been from an earlier test. I've updated it with the one that actually worked.

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December 16, 2010 7:06:35 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Also, just wanted to add: in my experience, the Thalans are one of the only races that seem to have no problems. In any given game, they seem to eventually research most, if not all, their techs. They probably don't need any real work.

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December 16, 2010 11:13:21 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It might be best to have the techtrees be more like orchards, having more techs with no prerequisites.

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December 17, 2010 1:04:14 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Gone back and looked over some of my earlier games. Right now, I think I'd categorize the races as follows:

No Problems

Thalans

Terrans (with Space Weapons fix)

Yor (their race personality is another issue, but I've had no problems with their research & development of planets. Yor using personality 11 are a challenging opponent)

Easily Fixed (races whose tech tree we've fixed in this thread)

Korx

Arceans

Functional (not researching all of their techs, but a capable opponent as is)

Altarians (I've mostly fixed them, but they still aren't researching Divergent Evolution and Healing Pools)

Drath

Krynn

Torians

Broken

Iconians

Drengin (even with a different personality, as mentioned above they still need some help)

 

I really don't use the Korath very often at all. Anyone care to venture an opinion on them?

Edit: Also, how about starting up another thread for this - something like "Tech Tree Fix Discussion"? This doesn't really have much to do with the original Space Weapons mod anymore - I assume we're all using it or a variant at this point anyway.

2nd Edit: I just used cheat codes to take command of the Iconians and some of the other races I don't have full espionage on in my test game. The results were surprising - the Iconians aren't so bad after all. They've completed their entire economy branch; while they're still hindered by the bug that prevents Iconian econ buildings from auto-upgrading, they're building the latest kind on their new colonies. They're up to Industrial Replication II and have built several Interstellar Refineries. In fact, they're now at work at least one Molecular Fabricator and have another on their main manufacturing world. Furthermore, they have researched Scatter Blaster III - they just completed it recently and so don't have many ships with it built yet.

The main remaining issues with the Iconians seem to be:

  • Still no Organic Hulls
  • Still no Expert Engineering - fortunately for this time someone gave them Advanced Hulls
  • They ignore Xeno Persuasion and so never have any influence technologies.

Other observations, from this and other games:

Altarians ignore their Defensive Studies tech.

The Arceans' lack of technologies in this game comes entirely or mostly down to their bad starting position. They have no research at all, having devoted everything into staving off aggression.

The Yor have a problem with some one-shot techs (nothing comes after them) like Stellar Streams. They also seem to have a hang-up at Collective Manufacturing III - not sure what it's about, but they aren't researching beyond it.

It turns out the Krynn do research their unique techs eventually. Like the Thalans and Torians, they just don't put a high priority on it.

Finally, in an embarassing note, after going through the Thalan tech tree I accidentally set the prerequisite for 4D Phasing to Admantium Armor (which is not the normal case - the Thalans tend to get this in the later game), and I didn't catch it until during the game. Proof that some of these errors can be hard to spot until too late.

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