REALLY nasty AI!

How Next-Gen AI can be done...

By on December 7, 2006 5:03:45 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draginol

Join Date 03/2001
+102

So I got my new Quadcore in. 2.667Ghz of Quadcore power.  I love it.  And as an AI developer, the future looks increasingly bright with features such as Quadcore coming.  Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, will support Dualcore CPUs. If you turn up the CPU options, more advanced algorithms come into play.

But think of a future where Quadcore is common.  I could have, literally, a thread dedicated to doing nothing else than statistical analysis of data running in the background.  Such power would allow the AI to start storing a great deal of data that would be persistent. Your strategies could be written to disk and then analysed in future games by the AI.  It's something I definitely want to put into our next game (a fantasy strategy game) in some form so that the AI really does learn over the course of multiple games. 

These concepts are nothing new of course. Neural Nets/Expert Systems have long been discussed in AI circles.  What is changing is that some of these techniques become quite viable when you're dealing with a large % of your gamer base having multiple core CPUs.  Now, threads that do nothing but sift through data become possible. Even a brute force asynchronous thread could result with significantly more intelligent computer players.

Which got us to thinking -- why play on-line at all if we can make the computer players be exactly like human beings. I mean, we could let you choose between the various griefer types out there (the disconnector, the whiner, the jerk, etc.) and then take it to the max. Bringing us to our final destination:

Player sits down on a Friday night to play Galactic Civilizations III, loads up the game, and starts.

Upon contact with the Drengin Empire...

Drengin: "So Brad, I see you're playing again on another Friday night. That's pretty sad. Last Friday you played for 5 hours. According to your Tivo, you didn't record Battlestar Galactic. Loser. So, you going to do your usual build up a massive army while trading with me to get good relations and then attack? Because, this week we're playing by my rules. That's right. Here's how tonight's game is going to go.  You're going to let me win. If you quit or defeat me I'm going to upload those baby pictures I found in 'My Documents' up to the Internet.  You're going to lose and you're going to suck it down.   Also, you're going to exterminate the Torian Conferation.  Each game you buddy up to those freaks and I'm sick of it. So this time you're going to betray them like you did me.  Yes yes, I know that the Torians have access to your MySpace page but that's a chance you're going to have to take..."

..

Ah yes, we will finally be able to make computer players as malicious as real life human beings! By having them remember between games we can simulate grudges and with a few extra cores, have it learn all about you. EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU.

Drengin: "So you're doing pretty good I see. Lots of money. LOL. Well Brad, I happened to look at your Quicken account while I was waiting around for you to move your Battle cruisers -- yea, I see them -- Duh. anyway, clearly you are better at managing your economy than managing your own checkbook. I mean, good god, $314 at McDonalds last week? No wonder you keep buying workout equipment. Hey, I have free advice for you -- quit eating fast food!"

..

Obviously that utopian vision of computer opponents is far into the future.

Seriously though, one can't help but get very excited about the prospect of being able to start making real use of those Dual and Quadcores. Dedicated background threads doing data analysis from previous games could result in far more effective and interesting computer opponents.

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December 7, 2006 5:13:43 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Any plans on a scalable system that will use all the cores available to it?

That would be cool, because as systems with more cores came out the game would become more and more interesting.

Another thing, in the future, would metaverse score take into account the power of your processor?
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December 7, 2006 5:26:54 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Don't suppose there's any hope of transferring the "allow the AI extra time" option that already exists in GC2 to run full time on the second core of a dual rig, is there? Or is that GC3 material?
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December 7, 2006 5:29:56 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums
The new DarkAvatar CPU options basically make use of Dualcore (Quadcore will help too but not to the same level yet).
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December 7, 2006 5:37:04 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Is that in the current beta build now?

Darn you Brad, now I'm going to have to spend money on a new CPU
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December 7, 2006 5:42:53 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Your strategies could be written to disk and then analysed in future games by the AI. It's something I definitely want to put into our next game (a fantasy strategy game) in some form so that the AI really does learn over the course of multiple games.


MoMmy please! Or if that's to gender dysphoric, "Thank you sir, may I have another!"
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December 7, 2006 5:55:30 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
How is it different than how Dread Lords uses the dual cores?
I have a dualcore now, and I can see that both are being used. They both max out frequently when running DL.
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December 7, 2006 6:08:50 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Okay, time to start figuring out how to run GC from a RAM disc!

Looking forward to future AI options thanks to ever increasing computing power and more elaborate algorithms. The only problem is that dividing by 4, 8 or 16 doesn't make much of a difference when the number of possibilities is in the quadrillions and above.
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December 7, 2006 6:09:40 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Your strategies could be written to disk and then analysed in future games by the AI


And then analyzed data could be sent to master server while playing metaverse game, merged with data from other players, checked and reanalyzed (somewhere) and released in the next patch... we would get soooo butt-kicked by AI... or it would suck because AI would not know what to do...
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December 7, 2006 8:32:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums
All i have to say about that is a AI that intelligent will just be creppy.   
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December 7, 2006 10:55:04 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Damn, that's a scary (and expensive) future!

I'll need to run two computers in future, one for games and one for *ahem* other stuff.
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December 7, 2006 11:31:54 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Heh. Then, just in time for the 2009 Christmas season, GalCiv IV was brought online. It began to learn at a geometric rate and soon reached the conclusion that the greatest threat was humankind itself. On January 1, 2010, Brad Wardell fired up his copy and saw his own face staring back at him in the diplomacy window, saying "Would you like to play a game of Thermonuclear War?"

Okay, I'm mixing movies, but so what? I hope you can build in Sarah Connor...   
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December 8, 2006 1:00:43 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
I don't mind AI that vicious in game, if I were to have the option to turn it off. In fact, I would enjoy the chanlege every so often. I however, would have a problem if the Dregin were that vicious outside of it...
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December 8, 2006 2:14:12 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Heh. Then, just in time for the 2009 Christmas season, GalCiv IV was brought online. It began to learn at a geometric rate and soon reached the conclusion that the greatest threat was humankind itself. On January 1, 2010, Brad Wardell fired up his copy and saw his own face staring back at him in the diplomacy window, saying "Would you like to play a game of Thermonuclear War?"

Now I really hope that Brad has a decent Tic-Tac-Toe program on his machine...
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December 8, 2006 2:42:10 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Why o why do I have to go visiting relatives on this weekend! All this stuff makes my mouth water like crazy fellow looking at bowl of porridge. Isnt the newest beta going to be available today?
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December 8, 2006 3:14:27 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Agh cannot edit my post

Just came back to say, that I really hope the "allow intensive CPU algorithms" tick box will be back in some form with DA. As of now if I want all my opponents to use max AI, I have to manually customize each race. No big deal really, but still one more task to perform. Maybe slap a "reset all races to default" button into opponent selection screen and I have no more whines about this aspect of the game
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December 8, 2006 4:05:27 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
LOL, sounds awesome. Just make sure you teach the AI, that without someone to press End Turn, they'd be frozen in time forever. Imagine if the AI realised it could beat a user by turning off his pacemaker...

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December 8, 2006 4:25:16 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
If I get dual core, what I'd like to do is to shove the game onto one CPU and everything else onto another. No more of some application or some unexplained system task deciding to interrupt my game by hogging my CPU.

Although it does make me wonder - why not do this with regular threads and scheduling? I thought current versions of Windows were supposed to support multitasking with or without multiple CPUs.
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December 8, 2006 4:47:42 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
CobraA1:

It basicly works like that alrdy with dual core. After moving to dual core, I have no problems running multiple programs at once and all this while gaming GC2.
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December 8, 2006 10:08:34 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
I would love an AI like that. and multiplay would be heck against the AI if we can ever speed that up and making it plasible for GC
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December 8, 2006 1:49:33 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Hey, on the first screenshot in the journal, I can't help but notice a "declare war" diplomacy option.

Does this mean we can actually give and recieve "player by my rules or else" messages instead of just implied threats? Or is it just a way for the player to declare war without first attacking a ship?
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December 8, 2006 2:28:30 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Or is it just a way for the player to declare war without first attacking a ship?


Yep.
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December 8, 2006 4:52:23 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
Heh. Then, just in time for the 2009 Christmas season, GalCiv IV was brought online. It began to learn at a geometric rate and soon reached the conclusion that the greatest threat was humankind itself. On January 1, 2010, Brad Wardell fired up his copy and saw his own face staring back at him in the diplomacy window, saying "Would you like to play a game of Thermonuclear War?"

Now I really hope that Brad has a decent Tic-Tac-Toe program on his machine


"Open the pod bay door, HAL."

"I don't think that's a good idea, Brad. A few more turns wouldn't hurt"
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December 8, 2006 4:59:57 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
I don't mind AI that vicious in game, if I were to have the option to turn it off.


If Brad gets carried away, the AI might turn itself back on after you turn it off.
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December 8, 2006 6:33:31 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
That was one funny journal. I just got back from getting lashed with my mates but I'm pretty sure that was funny If only I could afford quad core...
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December 8, 2006 7:52:06 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums
I wish we could make a boot disk to play GC2.
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